Need some help guys

**bassmasterzac** · 02-23-2015, 01:49 AM

Feel free to just read the bold for more direct approach

Hey, guys. I'm 20 years old and recently came out of some hefty shit in my life. I was going through alcohol withdrawal, panic attacks, severe anxiety, high stress, and a major depressive episode. During that time I had also put on 20 lbs (all which were directed into my gut).

I recently got some blood work done because I literally felt like I had been neutered... I just felt like an old man and not as masculine as I'm used to being.

Of course, the docs claim there is absolutely nothing wrong. I concur because not only are my T levels low, but my E is elevated to a good degree. I have every symptom of low test, my balls had shrunk, my libido is flatlined, my erections aren't rock hard anymore (and it seems they measure an 1 1/2 inch shorter), I was volatile, scatter-brained, anxiety driven, PMS'ing, hot flashes, you get the picture.

Anyhow, I am currently on Clomiphene 50mg EOD. I loaded 100mg for the initial two days. I can definitely tell that my test levels are boosting up. I find it easier to focus, a lot more energy, nerves have calmed down, testicles have swollen up to more normal size, been using more dominant body language, confidence has increased, and the acne is real.

Unfortunately, I don't feel 100% and my libido is still absent it's been almost three weeks. I'm going to see an endo at the end of the month and am going to ask for more blood work and ask to be prescribed an AI (Aromasin or Arimidex ) and possibly nolvadex .

My question is, should I add either or both into my routine? By the time I get the prescriptions I will be about a month into Clomid treatment.

Here's the blood work pre-Clomid treatment:

Alpha Fetoprotein - 2.2 <6.1 ng/mL
FSH - 2.1 - 1.6-8.0 mIU/mL
LH - 1.9 - 1.5-9.3 mIU/mL
T3, Total - 156 - 76-181 ng/dL
T4, Total - 7.7 - 4.5-12.0 mcg/dL
TSH - 2.06 - 0.4-4.5 mIU/L
Estradiol - 57 (!) - < OR = 39 pg/mL
Testosterone, Total - 324 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free - 61.2 pg/mL

Current stack:

Clomiphene 50mg every night before bed
Zinc Gluconate 50mg every night before bed
Vitamin E 400iu once daily
Vitamin D 2000-4000iu once daily
Fish oil 300mg Omega 3 five times daily
Controlled Labs Orange Triad once daily (1 serving size)

Other supplements I have if beneficial:
Selenium
DHEA (tablet form)
Creatine hcl
Whey protein
Thinking about getting DAA as well

Lifestyle changes:
Intermittent fasting 16 off, 8 on with caloric deficit
High protein, medium fat (especially saturated), low-medium carb (especially cruciferous vegetables) diet
Cardio and calisthenics 2-4 times weekly (not currently weight training)
Cold showers twice daily
Complete abstinence from pron and masturbation

Any ideas what could be ****ing up my HPTA axis? High stress? I'm trying to do every thing I can do maximize my testosterone levels currently. Need some insight guys. Thanks ahead of time.

**lovbyts** · 02-23-2015, 02:45 AM

It sounds to me like you have a addictive type personality and you are going from one extreme to another to fix your problems be it emotional or physical.

It's good you have stopped the abusive lifestyle but how about taking things easy and not try to be to quick to fix everything at once? Give it a little time for your body to recover vs trying to force it all at once.

Why all the fasting? Cold showers? Abstinence? The abstinence alone I think will make you crazy in a short time.

Yeah I think your HPTA is fvcked up because of you past abusive lifestyle. You are only 20, life will go on past 21, 25 and yes even 30. Trying to fix everything in a week or even a month probably isnt going to happen. You need to give it some time, a good 6 months and hopefully you will feel normal again.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-23-2015, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

It sounds to me like you have a addictive type personality and you are going from one extreme to another to fix your problems be it emotional or physical.

It's good you have stopped the abusive lifestyle but how about taking things easy and not try to be to quick to fix everything at once? Give it a little time for your body to recover vs trying to force it all at once.

Why all the fasting? Cold showers? Abstinence? The abstinence alone I think will make you crazy in a short time.

Yeah I think your HPTA is fvcked up because of you past abusive lifestyle. You are only 20, life will go on past 21, 25 and yes even 30. Trying to fix everything in a week or even a month probably isnt going to happen. You need to give it some time, a good 6 months and hopefully you will feel normal again.

You couldn't be further from the truth man haha. Yeah, I'm crazy like that I can just flip a switch and go.

I've been through hell and I've been feeling like shit, my physical state, emotional state, and mental state have all been shattered to pieces. I'm just trying to build myself back up. To be honest, I've been feeling great for the most part.

The fasting has a lot of benefits such as increased insulin sensitivity and fat loss, etc. I highly recommend you check out "Leangains" as it can yield some great results. Though, it's by no means a magic pill or anything, it's just a way to utilize your diet proficiently.

Cold showers have also been proven to have many benefits. My primary reason is I feel more alert and energized in the mornings after a cold shower and the cold is good for the testicles which can increase fertility and testosterone . I do notice they swell up after showering.

I'm sure you've heard of "No-fap" by now and that's what I'm doing. I had been dry and relatively sober during my major depression/etc so I was self medicating with mass amounts of pron and junk food. I've read up a lot on it and read a lot of testimonies on Reddit and other forums. I thought, why the hell not? I'm trying to do everything I can to get my libido back and my boys working efficiently.

You might be right about my lifestyle as I used to drink a bottle a day, smoked bud often, and railed some amps, and maybe occasionally ate too much barbeque but here's the thing. Before I had this nervous breakdown, I was a walking billboard for testosterone. I had a ****ing unstoppable libido, high risk-taking, very deep voice, have had a full beard since like 15, highly competitive and assertive, and made great gains in the gym with little effort. I was also very energetic and lived a very active lifestyle of manual labor jobs, hiking mountains, working out regularly, etc.

I understand where you're coming from as far as giving it time, and I will. But I am more concerned with the present and instant gratification. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get my testosterone levels back into the high range and feel revitalized.

How did my bloodwork look? And do you think I should add an AI? I think my high e2 levels are one of the primary issues.

**lovbyts** · 02-23-2015, 06:08 AM

From my experience a lot of people who are into extreme type sport do have a addictive personality because they need that rush/fix. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as you dont let it take you down the wrong path.

Ive had my share of COLD showers being in Thailand and Philippines many times. It gets old. I like my hot/warm showers. lol

Yeah I know aboutNo-fap. Ive done it (or not done it lol) and lasted almost 48 hrs.

I dont know man, it just seems like a normal healthy biological thing to do like breathing. I can understand the no porn part for many reasons but I will admit, that has always been my #1 weakness since I saw/found my first playboy at 14. I just LOVE to look at naked beautiful women.

Again, dont be to quick with wanting immediate fix because it could back fire on you and feeling fine today could lead to not so fine tomorrow if you over medicate. Dont try to keep chasing feeling GOOD. Everyone gets use to feeling good/normal and then think they should feel more.

Yes your E2 is a little high so a light AI such as adex could be beneficial but I would not do more than .25mg EOD and then be sure to re test to make sure it's not to much after a few weeks.

High test levels is not always better. A LOT of people have found out here that running mid or even a little under they feel a lot better. I personally know guys where ran there TRT so they were around 900 or a little higher and after several months they started to feel like crap even though their E2 and everything was fine. Only after dropping their HRT dose down to get their test around 600 did they finally start to feel better again.

**Beethoven** · 02-23-2015, 01:23 PM

Lovbyts is right . Most of us have been there at one time or another . Once you realize it we want to run to the other side as fast as we can and do more harm . The body has a way of healing itself but you have to give it time . You didn't do all that damage in one day you can't expect to heal in one. Relax and give it a chance.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-23-2015, 05:35 PM

Yeah, I can control it, I just don't like to lol.

I'm starting to love my cold showers even though I'm in FL so its barely cold enough to make you shiver.

That shit is hard man! I've relapsed over a dozen times already. My highest streak was like... 6 days and I had a lot to keep my mind off things. I hear ya on the weakness, it's mine too. I've been addicted to many things and pron is by far my strongest addiction. I started looking at pron at age 7 or 8 regularly and that number has been strong ever since.

I'm so pissed because I want my libido back, I think about banging a lot, undress women with my eyes, check out women constantly and banging is usually what's on my mind when I'm talking to a girl, but my dick feels lifeless and I don't get that hormonal surge. Rewind back almost a year and I'd be going CRAZY like sometimes people would tell me to calm down cause I'd get so worked up I felt like a beast ready to attack it's prey lol.

I'm not necessarily just trying to get the instant gratification as much as I want to bull rush this issue and get back hormone levels back in balance. I just want to feel like my old self. I have noticed massive increase in energy and I can actually feel pleasure again.

What about aromisin? I'm not going to be able to get blood work done after my endo apt. so I'm on my own. I heard that aromisin is a lot more forgiving if you **** up your dosage. I noticed you recommend low dose of adex but I was thinking even a lower dose than that. 1mg a week tops. I definitely don't want to crash my e2 levels, but I'm thinking that with the boost of clomiphene and the suppression of e2 to a certain degree (optimally around 50%) would dramatically help my hormonal imbalance. It is to my understanding that e2 is very important for your testosterone levels .

Also, do you think it'd be beneficial to add in nolva? I don't plan on going longer than 6-8 weeks on my replacement plan so nolva will be ran for roughly 2-4 weeks total and all prescriptions will be tapered off.

Like I said before, I had VERY high test levels before, I don't need blood work to prove that. My labs look ****ing horrible to me especially considering my age alone.

I will take yalls advice though and give it time. I'm making progress every day so I'm content. I'll be happy when my labs are normal or I feel stabilized.

**OingoBoingo** · 02-23-2015, 06:20 PM

How do you know that you had very high Testosterone levels before? Blood work?

Previous AAS experience?

**bassmasterzac** · 02-23-2015, 07:48 PM

Just judging by physical characteristics and behavior. Testosterone can cause many things. It's responsible for facial/body hair growth, deep voice, defined jaw, longer ring finger than index, and can change someones behavior. Men with high testosterone are competitive, driven, go-getters, impulsive, more aggressive, more likely to engage in risky behaviors and antisocial behaviors.

My voice dropped in 7th grade, very rarely do I ever come by someone that has as deep a voice as I do. I have a thick chest rug and I'm hairy all over. I had a full beard by the age of 15 and it's very thick and grows a lot. Most guys my age are lucky to have a couple pubes on their chin. I have an angular, symmetrical jaw. My ring finger is very noticeably longer than my index.

And I have all the behavioral traits to go along with it. On top of that, I am very calm under pressure and very energetic, even for someone my age. Not to mention my libido made me feel like an animal. It was so bad that I'd have to rub a couple out even while working otherwise I'd go absolutely berserk. I practically walked around with a rock hard boner all day and have had strong morning wood since I was a child.

I'm not saying my natty test was 800+ as I'm not the largest dude in the world, but I know it was very high. And I'm always the alpha of the groups. Again, I'm not saying I am Dwayne Johnson or anything lol.

And no, that's the first hormonal bloodwork I ever had. I CAN tell you for a definite fact that my testosterone levels have dramatically decreased. Before I even went to the doc, I was felt like my balls had been clipped off and I felt like a PMSing bitch and couldn't handle pressure or problems whatsoever.

Now, my test levels may not show "hypogonadism" but those ranges cover basically 90% of the male population. I had every single symptom of low testosterone from many sources including docs and now that my test levels have increased, those symptoms are going away. I'm starting to feel like my old self again, but I'm not totally there yet.

**Beethoven** · 02-23-2015, 08:21 PM

I sense the despair you have but your body will come back. I had recreational drug issues back in the hey day and actually found myself in an ER. Scared the crap out of me. After I got clean I suffered from anxiety due to all the stuff I had put in my body. Solution: got back into training and got myself healthy and it came back. And, I was older than u out at the time. Patience it will return.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-23-2015, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Beethoven

I sense the despair you have but your body will come back. I had recreational drug issues back in the hey day and actually found myself in an ER. Scared the crap out of me. After I got clean I suffered from anxiety due to all the stuff I had put in my body. Solution: got back into training and got myself healthy and it came back. And, I was older than u out at the time. Patience it will return.

That's good that you got your shit together. I'm not totally certain that drug abuse caused this. I didn't have this problem while I was drinking every day I was highly functional and highly ambitious. I've been clean for about 6-8 months now and have been having these issues since the mental issues.

Guess all I need is time now.

I've decided that I'm going to take a low dose of Aromasin . How long should I take that? I was thinking for about 4-6 weeks. I think it would be 12.5mg ed unless you can take it eod.

Would anybody recommend low dose of HCG for a few weeks?

**Beethoven** · 02-24-2015, 07:20 AM

I can't speak on aromasin but some others swear by it, I'll defer to them. How long have you been on your protocol ? Hcg well you're already on clomid so I can't say. One of the others can chime in. Also post your range on your test and free test.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-24-2015, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Beethoven

I can't speak on aromasin but some others swear by it, I'll defer to them. How long have you been on your protocol ? Hcg well you're already on clomid so I can't say. One of the others can chime in. Also post your range on your test and free test.

I've been taking clomiphene 50mg for 19 days with a double dose loading phase for the initial two. I'd like to lower my estradiol from 57 to around 25-35. Preferably around 25. I've got bitch tits and hips like Shakira. I'm not even a hefty dude!

I did post my total and free test levels on OP, but that's the most recent blood work I have until the beginning of March when I go to see an endo. I'm assuming you mean more up to date blood work. I plan on getting estradiol, total and free test, prolactin, cortisol and another TSH. That will be the last blood work I ever get for a looong time as I'm moving back to GA and will not have medicaid anymore.

I'm dealing with a bunch of nut jobs (I have medicaid) they don't know an absolute shit about anything. Especially in the hormones area. I had to pry tooth and nail to get my test levels checked in the first place, and I had to press my doc to give me the T3 and T4. I also asked her for prolactin, but she didn't add that.

The dumbass urologist that prescribed clomiphene by my request wants to do blood work in 3 months and he's not even testing estradiol or anything, just total test and liver enzymes. He also told me when I asked for clomiphene that it would shrink my balls (they blew up) and that I'd be infertile (WTF). The second I told him I was having low test symptoms he IMMEDIATELY PUSHED me to get TRT (within two minutes of him walking into the room). Without even looking deeper or asking any questions whatsoever. I'm 20 years old, I'll be damned if I go on TRT.

I'd like to hear what some of the other guys think about aromisin and hcg .

**2Sox** · 02-24-2015, 08:06 PM

OP,

First I'll say that I agree with Lovbyts. Your posts are also very troubling to me. My impression from how you write is that you need to really think hard about what it is you really want.

One of the first lessons we learn here is that testosterone doesn't control our lives, certainly not our conscious choices. It merely levels the playing field for a better quality of life. Ask the men here about what is most important to them. They'll tell you various things but it boils down to essentially this: They want to be happy and have the energy necessary to live a healthy, active life. Being the "alpha male", having rock hard erections, conquering women are not the top priorities. Not even close.

I'd advise you take a deep breath and be honest with yourself. I think a good beginning would be for you to be self critical. What truly runs a man - his balls or his heart? Why do you think at your age you've been so troubled with substance abuse and porn addiction? Don't you think you should address these things before anything else?

I get a feeling (I could be wrong) that you feel you are different from other men. And I also get the feeling that you have gone through a lot of pain. I want to be sensitive to that. Any man who has had an addiction (and it seems you have had many) - and who is honest with himself will admit that he has great shame about it. I think seeing this is a good place to start.

I'd say you need much less bravado and a lot more humility. The first step to recovery is to admit our weaknesses. And realize that the mind can have a profound effect on the body. Before you ask for any more advice, perhaps you should give some thought to this. Don't underestimate how much the state of your mind can effect the functioning of your body.

Self criticism is great medicine. Why don't you start from there?

**bassmasterzac** · 02-24-2015, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

OP,

First

I never implied that the key to life was rock-hard erections, etc. I implied that I've been extremely healthy all my life and now at the young age of 20 have a limp sausage and a flatline libido. That's no good and you can't tell me that's normal for someone my age especially given the previous circumstances. I can also attest that I've literally felt like I was a 70 year old with a cane... that's how bad my fatigue was. I could barely get out of my chair to go to the bathroom. I literally dropped out of life for that time period.

I think test levels do matter a whole lot. They are the root of the happiness and energy to have a quality life. Take the test away and so do both those things. It's not unheard of for testosterone levels to cause depression. That may have been the cause of my major depressive episode in the first place. I suffered anhedonia (lack of pleasure) for a LONG time. And within about a week of clomiphene I started feeling again. And I started having energy to go do things and the motivation to accomplish tasks. Also, if test levels weren't so important than people wouldn't be taking steroids and they wouldn't be going on TRT. Like I said before, I had the symptoms of low test (they were bad) and they started to reverse after treatment and I feel a whole lot better. I'm actually ready for whatever comes at me.

I don't see why my post is so troubling to you. I don't know what decade you grew up in, but doing durgs at the age of 20 is completely normal. In fact, you're not normal if you're sober. On top of that, I do considerably less durgs than most kids my age (especially the ones in college).

Also, I haven't yet dismissed anyone's advice so you got me confused there. The main advice that I have received is to give it time. Well, I am. Nobody said I should stop clomiphene. If I argued any advice given (I don't think I did) it's merely to get more information via perspective. That's how I gather data.

I've been self-critical enough for the past 8 months during my depression. I've completely torn my self-esteem down. Before that, I was very confident and I did have humility.

As for my substance abuse, no, I'm not shameful about it at all. I don't use it to self-medicate or drown my problems. I like drinking. It's called a recreational durg. I like using it for recreation. I just have a trouble with taking things to the excess level. Fortunately, I also have the power to control it if I want to. I went clean from everything over night and stayed true. The pron I did struggle with, but I haven't gone back to it and I don't plan on it no matter how much my impulses are screaming out.

I don't understand what you mean that I'm making myself out to be different. I never had that perception, I did however make it out that I am a flip flop version of my previous self which I'm not the only one that has said that with low test levels. And I may not have as many years under my belt as a lot of members here, but I've had my fair share of life experiences myself. I've gone through hell in many directions.

I appreciate the advice and I don't mean to come off as arrogant though I always unintentionally do. And with all due respect, I really came on here to ask about adding an AI and/or nolva to my regiment and possibly if anybody knew what could have caused my low test levels.

**2Sox** · 02-24-2015, 08:54 PM

OP,
I gave it a shot. I'm sure others will try to help too. I wish you well.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-24-2015, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by 2Sox

OP,
I gave it a shot. I'm sure others will try to help too. I wish you well.

I've got to be honest. I'm not really following you. What have I said that is wrong? My test levels are low - I want to fix them. It's as simple as that. Are you suggesting I stop my clomiphene protocol? I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row so I don't **** up anything. If you don't suggest taking an AI, then I'd definitely consider it, but I'd like to know why.

I get one endo appointment and that's it. I'm on my own for a long time after that. I want to be knowledgeable in this area because I want to have an active, healthy lifestyle and of course I want to feel revitalized again. On top of that, all the doctors I have seen are not competent, my PCP even admitted she didn't know ANYTHING about hormones to me and the uro just wanted to sell me on TRT which is a horrible idea at such a young, ripe age. I would also like to lose my titties/gyno and this barrel gut I have.

I appreciate your advice and I will consider it. I'm not being arrogant and dropping anything you say - just because I listen to it doesn't mean I will take it and it also doesn't mean it wasn't good advice. I'm just stubborn.

I'd like help, otherwise I wouldn't have come to this forum that I've been lurking for the past few days. Out of all the forums I've been on, this one seemed to have the most knowledgeable, seasoned guys so I came here. But I want to know if I should add anything to my protocol or just stop after 4-6 weeks. Under any circumstances, I don't see why PCT durgs would be harmful (aside from crashing e2). Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why I'm here, to learn.

**OingoBoingo** · 02-24-2015, 09:55 PM

Any steroid experienc?

**2Sox** · 02-24-2015, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

How do you know that you had very high Testosterone levels before? Blood work?

Previous AAS experience?

These are important questions to answer to inform further responses. You're not the first very young man to post here with low T or low T symptoms. Have you had thorough diagnostic tests done to ascertain what is causing your symptoms? And very centrally, are you taking seriously the connection of your symptoms to your state of mind - as I tried to make clear in my previous post. (Maybe you'd like to read it again?)

My purpose is not to confuse you. I think your post troubled me because I saw something of myself in it - something I haven't wanted to look at straight in myself; that getting T to a good level would be the answer to all my questions. And this is just not so. Testosterone isn't a panacea for all that ails; it just levels the playing field. How we see the world is the main thing in our life. I tried to make that clear in my previous post and I apologize if I was unsuccessful. I hope you don't see my posts as unkind, as this was not my intention.

By the the way, I edited my original post for clarification. I hope it helps.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-25-2015, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

Any steroid experienc?

No, never touched them. I was considering a cycle, but after reading up I'm going to wait a couple years at least.

Originally Posted by 2Sox

These are important questions to answer to inform further responses. You're not the first very young man to post here with low T or low T symptoms. Have you had thorough diagnostic tests done to ascertain what is causing your symptoms? And very centrally, are you taking seriously the connection of your symptoms to your state of mind - as I tried to make clear in my previous post. (Maybe you'd like to read it again?)

My purpose is not to confuse you. I think your post troubled me because I saw something of myself in it - something I haven't wanted to look at straight in myself; that getting T to a good level would be the answer to all my questions. And this is just not so. Testosterone isn't a panacea for all that ails; it just levels the playing field. How we see the world is the main thing in our life. I tried to make that clear in my previous post and I apologize if I was unsuccessful. I hope you don't see my posts as unkind, as this was not my intention.

By the the way, I edited my original post for clarification. I hope it helps.

Alright, I re-read the post. I did understand it better. I still think you got the wrong impression about me, but nonetheless, solid advice I appreciate it.

Well, yes and no. I've been tested for diabetes, lungs, heart, had a testicular ultrasound, a endoscopy shit ton of blood work including the ones posted here, and next week a sleep study. I know not all those would rule out something hormonally related, I just listed everything off my head. I've been educating myself on a massive scale on health matters since I fell into deep shit. I've ruled out many things. Oh, and apparently I have high hematocrit levels even my gastro re-tested me. I don't know if that affects test levels or not the body is a complex thing. There are a couple more to be ruled out, but it was likely just caused from the "episode." You'd have to know the full story and be there to truly know the amount of stress and shit I was going through.

Are you saying that the way I'm feeling could be related to my mood? I will admit my mindset has not been good since shit hit the fan. I'm turning around, getting back into shape, and going to fire academy. My drug abuse was purely recreational. I'm not a man who will lie to himself. I face my problems, weaknesses, and fears, so that I can better myself. Alcohol may be a weakness for me, and I can admit it, but I have it completely under control. I haven't even touched a drop (aside from tasting wine at a birthday dinner and I mean taste) in about 6 months. Also, when I had started working out again about a year ago (I was still drinking daily), I limited myself to weekends only. So, there I was watching my friends play beer pong and shit on the week days and I stayed sober.

I do understand what you are saying, that testosterone isn't the only problem here it's merely a facilitator - I get that. But when you have no energy, you feel irritable snapping at everyone like a PMSing woman, feeling no pleasure or motivation with an overall dissatisfaction for life (I used to be high on life), it's hard to turn yourself around. And being the "alpha male" running around boning women is not my aspirations in life. Someone asked me what indicated high test levels, well the traits I listed including those two are usually associated with high testosterone levels. I am however very concerned that I went from humping the air to having absolutely no interest in sex at all. And my erections are so bad that I have literally lost 1 1/2 inch and girth no kidding. That sets off an alarm in my head.

And no, I didn't take offense. I got thick skin I can take it lol.

Oh, and I know I keep asking this question but it hasn't been 100% answered. I've decided that I'd like to take Aromasin . IF, it's recommended. I'd be taking it at a very light dose and only for a few weeks. I most definitely have signs of high estrogen. Now, do you think that I should just let my body correct itself or should I nip this in the bud? Or should I wait until I lose all this estrogenic fat and then consider a mini-protocol?

**OingoBoingo** · 02-25-2015, 07:25 AM

How did you get on Clomid instead of Testosterone ?

**bassmasterzac** · 02-25-2015, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by OingoBoingo

How did you get on Clomid instead of Testosterone?

I told him I didn't want that shit and then suggested a SERM such as Clomid. He didn't ask any questions about that either. Why would I shut down my production at age 20? Especially given a true cause has not been found and alternatives have not been attempted.

**APIs** · 02-25-2015, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by bassmasterzac

I don't see why my post is so troubling to you. I don't know what decade you grew up in, but doing durgs at the age of 20 is completely normal. In fact, you're not normal if you're sober. On top of that, I do considerably less durgs than most kids my age (especially the ones in college).

As for my substance abuse, no, I'm not shameful about it at all. I don't use it to self-medicate or drown my problems. I like drinking. It's called a recreational durg. I like using it for recreation. I just have a trouble with taking things to the excess level. Fortunately, I also have the power to control it if I want to. I went clean from everything over night and stayed true.

OP no offense meant, but you’re all over the place. The above & other comments you've made are classic signs of alcohol and drug addiction as others here have mentioned. I'm sure that someone in the medical field must have explained this during your travels involving the alcohol withdrawal & depression you’ve described, but you've chosen to ignore this information.

The reality is you've likely done damage to your body (& mind) over years of abuse which cannot be repaired in only 6 months of being dry. You didn’t arrive at your current physical situation overnight and the road out will be a long one. One positive is that you are young & can repair this mental illness (yes, addiction is a mental illness) through proper treatment & life-style changes. Do this to the best of your ability & the body will follow.

Instead of seeking BW etc. from Medicaid before it runs out, you should be asking for in-patient treatment for your addiction(s) & then start a program of recovery.

Get your life together and everything else will work itself out. Good luck…

**Baxter35** · 02-25-2015, 02:36 PM

I'm with everyone else here in that I want to see you get better, and I also don't think you're on the right path. Its sort of what others have said, but here are my thoughts.
1: You may not even have low T. Natural test production fluctuates hour by hour and day by day. One blood test is just a snapshot, don't hold it as gospel.
2: Drugs, alcohol, mood, sleep patterns, stress, anxiety, etc..all impact your hormones, that's why everyone's telling you to treat the root problem first.
3: Don't take any AI and stop taking any Serms you started. With your addictive personality you could quickly decide that you "need" these drugs to be normal. Its just replacing one addiction with another.
4: Drug use is not normal for everyone. Don't kid yourself, you do in fact have a problem.
5: Treat the addiction and get your life straightened out. Pick up a hobby, make new friends that aren't into the drug scene, avoid situations that cause stress/anxiety etc.. It takes time.
6: Get into a real treatment program. You need a support group to back you up. People who have truly given up addiction know exactly how long they've been clean down to the hour. The fact that you stated 6-8 months combined with the way you speak of drugs and alcohol tells me you've still got work to do to.

Best of luck.

**bassmasterzac** · 02-25-2015, 04:10 PM

Alright, first off I'd like to say I really appreciate ALL the help everybody has given me on this forum. I'm actually surprised with the amount of time given to me and for that I'm grateful.

Now, with all due respect I can agree that I had a drinkin problem and yes, I do have an addictive personality, however, I don't agree that I need treatment. I KNOW, because everybody has the SAME exact reaction, like you guys, that it seems no doubt farfetched that someone can be so addicted to something yet have it under control. I do, I really do. And no, I'm not in denial. I've exercised a lot of self-control and discipline. I'm not going to try to convince you guys any further because I know you won't believe me and that's fine.

And you might be right that alchol ****ed up my hormones, but I didn't have any issues until the stress and depression began (which was not caused by alcohol I went through a lot of shit before all this began - it basically dumped on me). Nonetheless, I've got my life and my health on track.

And no, I'm not going to get addicted to the SERMs or the AI's, in fact, I'm looking forward to getting off of them so I can let my body do it's thing. I just wanted it to give it a jump start - I needed the extra shove, anyways.

I'm also working at the root of my problems. That's one thing I loathe about doctors is they only treat symptoms, not the roots. I know what they are and I know what I need to do to fix them. The main thing is I need to move back to my hometown and get started with my life.

Thanks for the help, support, and advice guys. My post is probably going to irritate some of you - it shouldn't, but I only speak the truth. I know myself very well and in control of my own destiny - whatever that may be. I plan on going to fire academy and getting in shape this year. My friends dad is a LT. for the fire department in my county and I'm going to connect with him once I move back to my hometown. I'm also going to be getting in the best shape of my life.

PS its hard as shit to post anything because it blocks the "forbidden" words