Waffling between injections and Androgel

[CobraMustangSVT]

Here's my situation.

I have a urologist who prescribes Androgel . He's very difficult to deal with. He believes that 300-400 is a good testosterone level. I was able to trick him into giving me 4 pumps by missing my dose before the blood test. Now, I saw him for a refill. He asked how I felt, I told him I felt great. He then decided to drop my dose to 3 pumps. Now I've gotten tired of him.

I have a TRT specialist. He gives me whatever I want.......AI, no problem, deca , no problem, hcg , no problem....... Now you ask, why did I leave him? First, I wanted all my records in one place. With the urologist, the records are in one place. The TRT Specialist is outside of it. Also, He does injections. I did injections for 6 months. No problems and I got over my fear of sticking myself.

So why switch to Androgel when I had no problems with injections? I kept on reading, on many different boards about people battling hematocrit problems, estrogen problems, etc. From what I read, it looks like injections cause more problems. I also read that Androgel keeps a person on a natural rhythm and that lessens the problems that I keep reading about (estrogen, hematocrit, etc.)

Now i'm stuck. I want to dump the urologist and get back with the real TRT doc. I met him and he gave me a script for both Androgel and Test C. I filled the test C and paid $10. When i went to fill the Androgel, the Pharmacist said I'm wasting my money with Androgel. it's $45 and even at the highest dose, it can't compare to Test C. He then spoke about how weather affects it, how it can rub off on clothing, how it can affect the wife and daughter, how some days my test levels can be 800 and other days 600 (this is true), and how I have to see the doc every month for Androgel versus every other month for test C.

Sorry for the rambling, but does that natural rhythm thing that Androgel does make it better? I was on test C for 6 months and Androgel for 9 months and I felt the same on both and had no estrogen or hematocrit problems. Do these problems creep up?

[forrest_and_trees]

The first question that comes to mind is, *when* did you inject yourself? Every 2 weeks, every week, twice a week? This makes a big difference when it comes to any , "rhythms".

Most of us here started out on Androgel and switched to Test Cyp. The contact with women and children thing is a bit of an issue, and frankly, it becomes a bit of a pain to have to apply every single day. Remember TRT is for life... you'll be doing this for a long time to come.

When it comes to Test Cyp, the best way to avoid any ups and downs is to break your dosage up and inject *twice* a week. Most of us here do it that way and have no problems with the roller coaster effect you get when injecting every other week or even once a week. Taking an AI prevents any problems with estrogen and as for any hematocrit problems, it's best to get your blood work done once every 3-4 months when you first start out, for at least the first year, then every 6 months there after. If necessary, you may need to adjust your dosage but I haven't heard of hematocrit being a wide spread issue.

Personally, it sounds like you should get back with your TRT guy. As far as records, you'll just have to make the extra effort to keep a copy of everything for yourself. They have to give it to you if you ask, and frankly, it's better to have all the details as most doctors will only tell you if your out of "lab range" and not give you the specifics.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[BallSak]

I think you are worrying and overthinking things way too much. You pretty much answered your own question. Androgel is high maintenance, cyp is low maintenance. Your doc situation sounds like a no brainer as well.

If injections increase hematocrit more than gels, then it is only because the testosterone is absorbed better with that delivery method, which is what you want.

Do what works best for you, don't worry what works for other guys, its irrelevant. Best of luck!

[OingoBoingo]

The only benefit of Androgel is the possibility of more DHT. But as your doctor pointed out, there are some downsides. Because I have a lot of contact with young women, I believe gels are a bad choice.

[CobraMustangSVT]

Thanks alot guys for the advice. I was injecting twice a week, every Tuesday at 6AM and Friday at 6PM. I took the HCG every Monday, Wednesday and Friday morning at 350iu's a week. I only had one blood test and it was at 1440 so I dropped my dose down to 50MG's every 3.5 days and never retested because I went to the new doc who only wanted to prescribe Androgel .

About the Androgel, it works well too. My only complaint about it is the inconsistency (and the doc constantly changing my dose).

On 4 pumps, I tested 3 times at 838, 506 and 697.

On 2 pumps, I tested at 489 and 606.

I guess the numbers change because of weather, sweat, absorption, etc.

My DHT has been at 70 on Androgel (the range goes to 85) and it was 75 on injections (when I hit 1440 so it would have been lower at a lower dose). My estrodial was higher on injections but I can't really make a fair comparison because I only tested it once (when I hit 1440 and that number would increase estrodial with Androgel too).

They both work well. I would say injections work better because I can drive my numbers higher and fine tune it better than with Androgel. With Androgel, I hit my top limit and it would change daily.

Thanks again guys.

[forrest_and_trees]

Sounds like you're on top of it.

FYI, a number of factors affect E2 levels. Obviously T levels, but also HCG can significantly increase your E2 and even DHEA as well as how much body fat you have. Even environment, types of foods etc. The point I'm making is, E2 is a moving target and you'll have to adjust accordingly. As time goes on, you'll become more in tune with the signs and symptoms and can adjust your AI dose as necessary. Everyone is different, the key is finding what works for you.

Best of luck.

[sparverius]

I consistently felt normal on gel. No need for an AI. I did not find the gel to be much trouble once I figured out how to integrate it into my life. The only problem with my wife was the gel tastes bad so I had to shower or warn her before sex.

I only went to test cyp because the gel stopped working after six years. Compared to gel I am all over the place. I inject 3x a week and there are still bad days when I am low and feel like crap. I need AI but find it difficult to get the right amount dialed in.

If I could go back to gel I'd do it.

[lovbyts]

The only benefit of Androgel is the possibility of more DHT. But as your doctor pointed out, there are some downsides. Because I have a lot of contact with young women, I believe gels are a bad choice.

I like the way you worded that. LOL

Your wife saying it taste bad is not a good thing. She should not be having ANY contact with it. That's another reason I went with injections (wife and kids) even though I hate needles but it's by far the best solution and most everyone finds it works better.

I agree with all the above and think your doctor is a quack. WTF, you tell him you are feeling great so he lowers your dose? Obviously he wants you to not feel good/great. Kick him in the balls and ask him how he feels now.... Jerk.

Go with your old TRT specialist, he seems to have a much better grasp on things and as said just donate blood ever 3 or 4 months and you should be fine.

[2Sox]

I like the way you worded that. LOL

Your wife saying it taste bad is not a good thing. She should not be having ANY contact with it. That's another reason I went with injections (wife and kids) even though I hate needles but it's by far the best solution and most everyone finds it works better.

I agree with all the above and think your doctor is a quack. WTF, you tell him you are feeling great so he lowers your dose? Obviously he wants you to not feel good/great. Kick him in the balls and ask him how he feels now.... Jerk.

Go with your old TRT specialist, he seems to have a much better grasp on things and as said just donate blood ever 3 or 4 months and you should be fine.

Love that suggestion. Lol.

Lots of good suggestions above. Yes, gels tend to make the numbers go all over the place. But for many, gels seem do lose their effectiveness and they eventually go to shots. The main thing is to keep an eye on Free T - and if you are feeling good, we can assume that's good too.

OP,
By the way, your TRT doctor sounds a lot like a doctor I know of here in Brooklyn, NY. Where are you located?

[CobraMustangSVT]

I'm in Brooklyn too.

[2Sox]

Actually, this doctor is in Manhattan. Joseph Olivieri.

[CobraMustangSVT]

Sorry, I got confused. I thought you were talking about my urologist.

The TRT doc is Olivieri. He's a great doc, a God-sent. He listens, runs all the necessary bloods, prescribes Deca , if needed, HCG , AI's etc. He also prescribed both Test C and Androgel and asked me to try both out to see what I like.

[2Sox]

Yeah. Heard all good things about him.

[lovbyts]

Im moving. Does he accept patients via virtual?

[2Sox]

Im moving. Does he accept patients via virtual?

Not sure. But I guess you can give him a call. Big practice with HIV patients. Nelson Vergel refers people to him.

I personally know one of his patients from the gym and he likes him.

[j2048b]

Wow im moving too! A doc who actually does great in trt and will script deca ? Haven't been able to get mine refilled for over 2 years!

[j2048b]

Wow im moving too! A doc who actually does great in trt and will script deca? Haven't been able to get mine refilled for over 2 years!

Where can we find his info? Ive searched but found a few different ones

[2Sox]

Where can we find his info? Ive searched but found a few different ones

Just Googled him. Easy to find. Dr. Joseph Olivieri, NY, NY (Manhattan)

[j2048b]

Just Googled him. Easy to find. Dr. Joseph Olivieri, NY, NY (Manhattan)

ok cool, i had done that but did not know if his middle initial was G.

thanks sox!


just called and they said no new patients at this time, HE DOES DO VIRTUAL PATIENTS but

u will have to go and see him monthly??