New guy, would welcome input on my regimen..

[Dawgs Life]

53 year old male, found site via google search. 3 weeks into weekly Trt regimen:

1 x 150mg of Test Cyp inj
1 x Ultra Slim Shot inj (any day)
HCG 500mg inj (2 days prior to Test inj)
Anastrozole .5mg (2 days following Test inj)
Daily 100mg DHEA suppliment
2 days off

Plus, I already take these supplements daily:

Creatine
Vitamin D3 10,000
Mens Multi vitamin
200 mg CoQ10
Glucosomine Chondroitin +MSM
5mg Melatonin (sleep aid)

I was tested and found to have low total T (310). I am highly active (crossfit, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, rugby) and felt myself unable to recover after hitting it hard. I also had low (lower than my normal) libido but still had good wood.. Went to eHormones.com, they put me with a Dr (anti-aging) here in Atlanta, got blood test, now have a big box of needles!

Anyway, so far so good, I have noticed a big boost in energy (not sure if it's the B Complex or a combo with the Test). Workouts are going well, not seeing significant gains in muscle or strength yet, but was in good shape for my age already. I have noticed better recovery post workout. I eat pretty clean - zone, hi protein diet. Trying to keep my protein up to 150-180 grams/day.

Wish I would have found this forum before I started this process!

Cheers!

Dawg

[OingoBoingo]

150mg Testosterone is a relatively high starting dose. Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon start their patients on 70mg and 60mg respectively.

Dr. Crisler also recommends injecting hCG two days before and one day before injecting Testosterone.

Good to see you are taking Vitamin D.

What is a Slim Shot?

[Beethoven]

150mg Testosterone is a relatively high starting dose. Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon start their patients on 70mg and 60mg respectively.

Dr. Crisler also recommends injecting hCG two days before and one day before injecting Testosterone.

Good to see you are taking Vitamin D.

What is a Slim Shot?

Wondering that also. Recovery is very important sign, your diet and training will dictate muscle growth, though having your t levels normal will help. Welcome aboard .

[OingoBoingo]

Also, 0.5mg Anastrozole is a lot. Do you have high E2?

[Dawgs Life]

Also, 0.5mg Anastrozole is a lot. Do you have high E2?

Hi,

I don't know about my E levels. I think this is just a standard protocol that this Dr uses to get total T up "without side effects" as she said. She also said her goal was to get total T in the 900-1200 range for me and keep it there.

If 150 is a high dose of T, should I cut back on my T dose on my own?

The Slim Shot is a vitamin B Complex plus Choline, Methionine, Inositol. You can find a detailed breakdown on

Balancedhealthandwellness.com/b-12_0112.html

Also, is this a regimen I will be on for the rest of my life? I was never told that by the Dr. If so, that's kind of scary..

Thanks again,

[APIs]

If 150 is a high dose of T, should I cut back on my T dose on my own?

Do not adjust your dosage based on internet posts. This is between you & your Doc. In reality, (no offense meant) but people should not be giving personal opinions on 'dosing' without knowing your actual history. Dosing (on all meds) is very individual & doesnt work the same for everyone no matter what Crisler or anyone else might say.

Also, is this a regimen I will be on for the rest of my life? I was never told that by the Dr. If so, that's kind of scary..

If you like Vagina, then yes it's a life-long contract. Don't get freaked-out, give it time & enjoy the journey like many here...

[Beethoven]

^^^^^^^^^^ Couldn't agree with you more. Love that vag......

[Low Testosterone]

Do not adjust your dosage based on internet posts. This is between you & your Doc. In reality, (no offense meant) but people should not be giving personal opinions on 'dosing' without knowing your actual history. Dosing (on all meds) is very individual & doesnt work the same for everyone no matter what Crisler or anyone else might say.



If you like Vagina, then yes it's a life-long contract. Don't get freaked-out, give it time & enjoy the journey like many here...

Excellent post. People tend to start second guessing everything when other random people they do not know say things about their protocol. It's kind of strange if you really stop and think about it. And equally important - Crisler - knows TRT, but he's not the end all be all of TRT, no such person exist. TRT is not neurosurgery.

[kewe]

Slim shot? is that like MIC B12?

[Dawgs Life]

From reading about the Slim Shot, it's B Complex + amino acids to boost energy and metobalism and is supposed to act as a Lipotropic agent to prevent fat buildup in the liver and the body?? Anybody familiar with these shots?

[kewe]

From reading about the Slim Shot, it's B Complex + amino acids to boost energy and metobalism and is supposed to act as a Lipotropic agent to prevent fat buildup in the liver and the body?? Anybody familiar with these shots?

Sounds.like MIC plus B12. I tried.it.but felt the same..

[OingoBoingo]

Hi,

I don't know about my E levels. I think this is just a standard protocol that this Dr uses to get total T up "without side effects" as she said. She also said her goal was to get total T in the 900-1200 range for me and keep it there.

If 150 is a high dose of T, should I cut back on my T dose on my own?

The Slim Shot is a vitamin B Complex plus Choline, Methionine, Inositol. You can find a detailed breakdown on

Balancedhealthandwellness.com/b-12_0112.html

Also, is this a regimen I will be on for the rest of my life? I was never told that by the Dr. If so, that's kind of scary..

Thanks again,

Thank you for the link. I will check it out.

Instead of changing the dose on your own, it would be better to work with your doctor. I would simply call and say after doing some research, I would feel more comfortable titrating up rather than risk titrating down, and suggest starting at 60mg or 70mg (up to you) of Testosterone , and 0.25mg Anastrozole only if/when needed.

Although still a few push-ups away from looking like Arnold in his prime, I suppose I am big by Thai standards. After examining my blood work and looking at me, my doctor suggested starting at 200mg per week.

I was not aware of Dr. Crisler and Dr. Gordon at that time, but from reading various forums knew that 100mg was a better starting point than 200mg.

As things turned out, 105mg per week took me to top of range for Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and IGF-1. The downside was that I tanked my libido/sexual response, got backne, night sweats, blew up like the Goodyear blimp, and it felt like someone clamped vice grips on my nipples. It may sound like a party, but I can assure you it was not.

I told my doctor I wasn't happy with the sides and wanted to drop my dose. It took a couple tries, and now I'm at a level where things seem to be doing well.

Looking back, had I started at a lower dose and titrated up instead of down, I would have saved a lot of pain and suffering.

Once you get dialed-in you will feel much better, and likely be happy to be on it for a long time.

[2Sox]

Dawgs,

I'd say you've gotten some very good advice here from the people above. The advice on forums comes at us sometimes like buckshot from many sources and directions. It's up to us to see what makes sense and works for us. The more time you spend here, the easier time you'll have of doing that. And one of the greater benefits is that you'll gain more knowledge with which to communicate with your doctors.

But Oingo makes a very good point: Whatever dose you start at, it's MUCH better to start low and titrate up rather than to start high. The example he gives from his own life is a useful lesson. Something similar happened to me when I started out but I was able to find this forum before too much damage was done. And it seems you've been fortunate in the same way. You'll soon see that there are a lot of good people here ready to give you a helping hand.

[Chauffeur]

All in all I'd say that this isn't a bad starting protocol, but then again I'd be comparing it to a bunch of really bad ones that we see around here.

I agree with the others though, it's a little on the high side to start out with. Some guys need higher doses, many do not. It's always best to start conservatively and slowly increase as needed. And if you can manage your protocol so that you don't need the Anastrozole...even better. For many guys that's very achievable.

Injecting testosterone once per week isn't necessarily a bad thing but most men here will say that smaller, more frequent injections are the way to go. Every 3.5 days, once every 4 days, once every 5 days...you get the picture. It will keep your hormones more stable, and make it easier to get by without the Anastrozole, minimize side effects, etc.

If you've got a good relationship with your doctor, it might not be a bad idea to discuss this stuff with him sooner rather than later. If not, you're not in any serious danger by trying this out and you can always make changes later.

Again, I don't see any major issues with his protocol, it's just a somewhat aggressive way to get started. You may not need this much testosterone/Anastrozole.

[kelkel]

As things turned out, 105mg per week took me to top of range for Total Testosterone, Free Testosterone, and IGF-1. The downside was that I tanked my libido/sexual response, got backne, night sweats, blew up like the Goodyear blimp, and it felt like someone clamped vice grips on my nipples. It may sound like a party, but I can assure you it was not.

Now that's funny.

[Dawgs Life]

I really appreciate the feedback!
I feel great so far but will look at dialing back my T dosage.

A couple of guys mentioned cutting out or avoiding Anastrozole. What's the downside to Anastrozole?


QUOTE=Chauffeur;7020418]All in all I'd say that this isn't a bad starting protocol, but then again I'd be comparing it to a bunch of really bad ones that we see around here.

I agree with the others though, it's a little on the high side to start out with. Some guys need higher doses, many do not. It's always best to start conservatively and slowly increase as needed. And if you can manage your protocol so that you don't need the Anastrozole...even better. For many guys that's very achievable.

Injecting testosterone once per week isn't necessarily a bad thing but most men here will say that smaller, more frequent injections are the way to go. Every 3.5 days, once every 4 days, once every 5 days...you get the picture. It will keep your hormones more stable, and make it easier to get by without the Anastrozole, minimize side effects, etc.

If you've got a good relationship with your doctor, it might not be a bad idea to discuss this stuff with him sooner rather than later. If not, you're not in any serious danger by trying this out and you can always make changes later.

Again, I don't see any major issues with his protocol, it's just a somewhat aggressive way to get started. You may not need this much testosterone/Anastrozole.[/QUOTE]

[Beethoven]

You could tank your E2, more meds, cost... For me I would like to be on the minimum meds necessary as they all have potential sides. That being said I won't hold back from taking them but I feel the less meds you have to take the better you are.

[Chauffeur]

i really appreciate the feedback!
I feel great so far but will look at dialing back my t dosage.

A couple of guys mentioned cutting out or avoiding anastrozole. What's the downside to anastrozole?

Most of us will recommend TRT without an AI because Anastrozole can be really difficult to dial in for many guys.

For starters, there are a lot of doctors prescribing doses that are way too high. It's an extremely powerful drug (despite its adorable size), and that leads to people knocking their estradiol value down too low. That's a very bad thing and will cause many symptoms.

For others, even small doses of the medication can cause side effects.

Many guys simply don't need an AI. If you take one when its not needed, you'll be miserable. It's always best to determine the need for an AI based on bloodwork and not just take one preemptively.

[2Sox]

Most of us will recommend TRT without an AI because Anastrozole can be really difficult to dial in for many guys.

For starters, there are a lot of doctors prescribing doses that are way too high. It's an extremely powerful drug (despite its adorable size), and that leads to people knocking their estradiol value down too low. That's a very bad thing and will cause many symptoms.

For others, even small doses of the medication can cause side effects.

Many guys simply don't need an AI. If you take one when its not needed, you'll be miserable. It's always best to determine the need for an AI based on bloodwork and not just take one preemptively.

Great advice.

[OingoBoingo]

i really appreciate the feedback!
I feel great so far but will look at dialing back my t dosage.

A couple of guys mentioned cutting out or avoiding anastrozole. What's the downside to anastrozole?

For me, it isn't that Anastrozole is a problem, it just makes sense to do what one can to reduce side effects without tossing more meds into the mix.

Staying away from alcohol may help.

Reducing body fat may help.

Lower doses of Testosterone may help.

Many find that more frequent injections reduce their need for an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor). Cutting one's dose in half and injecting every three days works wonders for some. Because where I live the E2 sensitive test isn't available, I was concerned about managing E2 and decided to inject small amounts of Testosterone subcutaneously daily.

Supplementing one's diet with Zinc may also help control E2 levels. The Life Extension Foundation recommends Zinc 80mg per day. I take 75mg spread throughout the day and found that it has helped me control E2. I've also found that three tablets of Dymatize Z-Force (Zinc, Magnesium, & Vitamin B6) 30 minutes before going to bed helps provide deeper sleep.

Hope that helps.

[OingoBoingo]

Crisler - knows TRT, but he's not the end all be all of TRT, no such person exist.

It occurs to me that many doctors may have said exactly the same thing when Dr. Crisler started telling his patients to inject Testosterone weekly instead of every two weeks, and/or when Dr. Crisler started telling his patients to include hCG in their TRT protocol.

And just to be clear, Dr. Mark Gordon, who has also distinguished himself in the field, has lowered his starting dose to 60mg per week. Dr. Crisler is not alone in his observations that guys are doing better on lower doses and lower doses mean less adverse effects. .

While it's easy to ridicule some random guy on the Internet, it's quite a different matter to address the message - many doctors are over-prescribing Testosterone.

As a TRT patient, I don't want more meds than I need, and I certainly don't want to titrate down. Starting at a dose such as 60mg or 70mg greatly reduces the odds of having to titrate down, and saves patients from suffering adverse effects such as high E2 or libido/sexual response problems.

With doctors seemingly pulling starting doses out of their hat, it makes me wonder where their oath to take care that patients suffer no hurt or damage comes in.

And what other potentially harmful meds are cavalierly titrated down.

I am thankful that LowTestosterone.com is a sponsor of the forum, and I'm sure the many satisfied customers are grateful for LowTestosterone.com bringing the Crisler Protocol to the masses.