Went back to Endo for regular checkup and left with some surprising news/info

**Rodax** · 03-27-2015, 05:19 PM

So, went in for the usual 6 month checkup with the Endo for my thyroid. I ended up going to a lowt service for TRT after this guy kept on and on with Clomid. I was doing fine with Clomid (745-785) but I wanted more out of trt than just fine though. At the time, he wouldn't prescribe test cyp or HCG because he wanted to see how well I responded to it. Then I decided to switch over to a lowt company after the doc at the consult agreed with me that if I want my levels to top out, I should at least try for it and see where I land. Well, apparently with their regimen I was doing about as well as I was on Clomid...Well worst at first, 465 or 485 at the 6 week mark and then they increased my dosage. So, my Endo says that he wants to run a full Test estrogen panel this time with a different lab group (they took 4 regular sized tubes out of me) along with the same TSH T3 and T4 panels I have done every 6 months. This is all after I told him I went with a lowt site and that it wasn't going through my insurance at all, he said that it'll probably cost a fortune in the long run. He told me about how Androxal was just filed with the FDA back in February and that a lot of that research with enclomiphene looks promising. Anyway, after all that he asks me how set I am at reaching the max range and I told him I was pretty set. He asks to do a panel and what I'm currently taking (200mg/week Test cyp 1000IU/week HCG) for trt. He then kinda chuckles and says "ya know I have this 45 y/o guy who comes in here for hrt and before he even denies that he's on some stuff I show him his tests and ask him if he's going through foreign labs to get the stuff he's using and he tells me he's going to do what it takes to get what he wants. If you're about to do something similar or are already doing this, let me know now and I can at least mitigate some of the damage you do to yourself by prescribing this to you legitimately. Because it's almost like heroin users, they're gonna find or reuse needles because they want their high. Denying them needles without a prescription doesn't stop them from getting needles or drugs - that's why they have needle exchanges in cities with IV drug problems, it keeps these people from infecting themselves with something else." I thanked my endo and got my blood drawn, Now I'm just waiting for the results and debating about what to do next.

So, with all that being said I'm now kinda wondering what to do after I get my results back...?

**OingoBoingo** · 03-27-2015, 06:31 PM

There's not much to tell guys that just want more, other than more is not always better.

We know that men are happier and healthier in the upper quartile of the range for Testosterone , but that doesn't mean that they will do better at 950 or 1150 than they would at 850.

More Testosterone increases the risk of sides. When I was at 1,170 (at 105mg Testosterone per week) there were a few things to like, but E2 and tanking libido/sexual response sucked. And not in a good way.

Lowered the dose and blood work came back at 750. Had great relief from the side effects, but lost some energy. Increased dose a bit, and sitting at 850 life is pretty good.

Every time I load my syring it's tempting to do more, but I remember going to the go-gos and my dick not working, and it's easy to pass up.

Upper quartile is where I'd like to be, but couldn't care less about being at the top of range; been there, done that.

As much as I like being the big dog in the gym, I like using my dick a lot more.

**kelkel** · 03-27-2015, 07:26 PM

Rodax just remember you're not a number. Base things on how you feel along with BW. Speaking of which, use free T as your guide, not total T.
When it comes to numbers, most guys will never feel the difference between 1000 ng/dl and 1500, surprisingly. Keep your TRT at a healthy level where sides are mitigated like OB said, then cycle as needed if you're into that.

**Rodax** · 03-27-2015, 08:46 PM

OB - I feel freaking great right now, I just like the energy and feeling amped and ready to go, but I'm also sticking to the recommended doses because I'm not sure how much more to add in addition to my trt dose. I'm also motivated to go for more for other reasons, I'm going to Vegas this summer and I want to look awesome as well as mess around a bit...or a lot haha! Could I just wait for numbers next week and then cycle up if all is a go, and say tone it back down a few weeks before the trip? Any particular sides to look out for? I mean I have mild irritation acne on my upper back anyway because ever since starting on trt more hair has grown there and I'm not a fan of that when I'm going sleeveless, so I shaved or nair'd it off. Libido is fine, but I'm also using 5mg cialis every day because I've noticed my lifts go up with it than just taking creatine alone, so maybe that is mitigating something I'm not noticing? Obviously, I'll know more when I get my results back.

**Rodax** · 03-27-2015, 08:46 PM

Also, thanks Kelkel

**kelkel** · 03-27-2015, 10:16 PM

Just find your dose where your normal and healthy for TRT long term. When you go beyond that there's always a risk but it can be mitigated with diligence and self-education.

Elevated estrogen
Hemoglobin / Hematocrit
Blood pressure
Acne
Lipid issues

and the list can go on. Educate yourself well. Familiarize yourself with Austins Successful First Cycle thread and use it as a guide.

**Baxter35** · 03-28-2015, 06:35 AM

Obviously Kels advice is spot on. Only thing I'll add is that 200mg/wk is a healthy dose and you should be able to make great gains on that alone. My advice would be to ride it out at that dose at least another 6 months to see how you respond to that alone. You may even find that dose is too much for trt. As stated, free T is where its at anyway. 120mg/wk puts my total around 750-800, but my free T is over the top of the range and I feel great. I've been on 200mg/wk and my total was over 1600 and I really didn't feel that great... Your not the first person I've seen on here whose mentioned getting good total T but low free T out of clomid therapy. I don't know why that is, but you may find your free T responds better to the cyp in relation to total vs. free. Anyway, good luck.

**Rodax** · 03-28-2015, 04:54 PM

Well Baxter, I was on 150mg/week and I was below 500. The doc bumped me up to 200mg/week and I'm just waiting to find out the results of the blood panel they drew last week at my Endo. I'm curious about where my free T will be as well and just figuring out all of this and eventually dialing it in to the sweetest spot, wherever in the spectrum that lies.

**kelkel** · 03-28-2015, 07:06 PM

Post up your results of the BW Rodax. Interested in your results.

**OingoBoingo** · 03-28-2015, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Rodax

I'm also motivated to go for more for other reasons, I'm going to Vegas this summer and I want to look awesome as well as mess around a bit...or a lot haha! Could I just wait for numbers next week and then cycle up if all is a go, and say tone it back down a few weeks before the trip?

Libido is fine, but I'm also using 5mg cialis every day because I've noticed my lifts go up with it than just taking creatine alone, so maybe that is mitigating something I'm not noticing?

As I understand your posts, you are not dialed-in yet. Blasting is tempting; I want to do it too. But blasting before you're dialed-in will complicate things for you and your doctors.

Think of changing your dose like throwing pebbles into a pond; just as it takes time for the ripples in the pond to subside, it takes time for the ripples in your endocrine system to subside.

Libido may be fine now, but the body is a complicated system, and different areas are responsible for erection quality and orgasm. If the hormonal balance is upset, libido/sexual response can be impacted.

Get dialed-in, and give time for your body to settle down. It might take a year, but it will better in the long run, and good timing for *next* summer.