Results 1 to 17 of 17
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By OingoBoingo

Thread: High alkaline phosphatase (bone) came down after starting trt

  1. #1
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74

    High alkaline phosphatase (bone) came down after starting trt

    I was diagnosed with high alkaline phosphatase around two years ago, right at the same time when my cancer treatments ended. They examined it more detailed and indeed, it was coming from the bone. After having a cancer which in many cases spreads to the bone they first suspected it could be a recurring cancer. When after a thorough inspection nothing was found the diagnosis was "beginning osteoporosis". No actions, just monitoring two times a year. It has been at the same level all the time: 125-150 I/U (35-105).

    In the history I've been breaking my bones quite easily. Ribs, ankle, wrist etc. Some of them have snapped way too easy. So the diagnosis kinda made sense to me. I was just wondering isn't there anything they could do about it.

    Eventually I came aware of my low T. Also found out that osteoporosis is one possible side effect of low T, even though cancer treatments could cause it too. So when trt started it remained to be seen how the alkaline phosphatase would react.

    Now, after being 8 months on trt I received my latest results of it and the result was 97 I/U. A significant decrease. My cancer doctor have been suspicious about my trt, but that's just purely because of his lacking knowledge of it. Now he had to agree it's working. That poor old fella.

    Anyone else who would have been experiencing the same? Any thoughts?
    Last edited by FakeLove; 03-25-2015 at 09:57 AM.

  2. #2
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    How is your Vitamin D level?

  3. #3
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74
    Dunno, haven't measured it. Been taking daily 50μg oil based vitamin D for quite a long time already. In addition to that my daily routine consists of 1000μg of B12, 35mg zinc + B6 and also C vitamin.

  4. #4
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    How does 50ug compare with 10,000IU?

  5. #5
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74
    If I found correct conversion 50ug equals 2500IU.

  6. #6
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    2,500IU D3 daily isn't much.

    Low levels of Vitamin D can cause Osteoporosis and other bone problems including Rickets. I don't know if it would cause the specific problem you're having but if you live in a civilized country above the 32 parallel, there is a good chance that the level is low.

    It's good to see you made some progress with Testosterone , but you should know what your Vitamin D level is.

    Get your level checked, and consider taking 10,000IU Vitamin D3 daily.

  7. #7
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    Additionally, 1,000mcg of B12 daily seems like a lot to me. I can't recall anyone recommending taking that much daily for a prolonged period.

    And Life Extension Foundation recommends Zinc 80mg daily.

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    28,936
    OB I take 5K mcg's of Methyl B12 daily. Have for years. Great stuff.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  9. #9
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    Wow! Thank you for letting me know.

    Almost ready to start the Second Human Guinea Pig Project!

    Unfortunately, Methyl isn't available here.

  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    28,936

  11. #11
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    Sadly, Amazon ships only reading material to Thailand.

  12. #12
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74
    How much is the daily recommendation of vitamin D in the States? The dose I'm on is like 500% of the daily recommendation here in Europe, where more than half a year there's not much sunlight. Having 2000% would sound a bit overkill.

  13. #13
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    There is no way advisory councils can keep up with the fast and furious pace that new Vitamin D findings are hitting the journals. Oh, they'll stop you from getting Rickets, but good luck with the list of metabolic issues caused by low levels of Vitamin D.

    Dr. Bruce Hollis recently found that it took 6,500IU of D3 daily for nursing mothers to have enough Vitamin D in their milk to raise their baby's Vitamin D to sufficient levels. Hollis went on to say, "There is no sense to taking less than 10,000IU of Vitamin D daily."

    Here are a couple other ways to look at it:

    Where did the Vitamin D Council get its recommendation that adults take 5,000 IU/day of vitamin D3 for the rest of their life? The Institute of Medicine’s Food and Nutrition Board say 600 IU/day is enough for adults and the Endocrine Society says 2,000 IU/day is enough for most adults.

    We think the safest thing to do while all the research is going on is to maintain natural vitamin D levels. By natural, we mean those levels obtained by those with natural sun exposure, such as lifeguards, some roofers and gardeners, and others who work in the sun and expose a lot of skin to sunshine. This is how our ancestors behaved throughout our ev0lutionary history.

    The best study that examined the vitamin D levels of people who get plenty of sun exposure was published last year. Researchers discovered that free-living hunter gatherers living around the African equator (where humans evolved) have average vitamin D levels of 46 ng/ml (115 nmol/L).

    Luxwolda MF, Kuipers RS, Kema IP, Dijck-Brouwer DA, Muskiet FA. Traditionally living populations in East Africa have a mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentration of 115 nmol/l. Br J Nutr. 2012 Nov 14;108(9):1557-61.

    Most people will not have their blood tested unless their doctor recommends it. So we needed a recommended dose that:

    Is easy to obtain at most pharmacies.
    Will get at least 97% of people above 30 ng/ml.
    Will get most people above 40 ng/ml, and close to around 50 ng/ml.
    Will not cause anyone to get toxic levels.

    When we decided on a recommendation with the four goals above in mind, we also had to take into account body weight. Besides genetics, body weight is the single biggest determinate of vitamin D levels. The more you weigh, the more vitamin D you need to take.

    Professor Robert Heaney of Creighton University details in the study below just how high vitamin D supplementation/input needs to be to reach the vitamin D level goals above.

    Drincic AT, Armas LA, Van Diest EE, Heaney RP. Volumetric dilution, rather than sequestration best explains the low vitamin D status of obesity. Obesity (Silver Spring). 2012 Jul;20(7):1444-8. doi: 10.1038/oby.2011.404.

    Together with his coauthors, Professor Heaney stated that for a normal weight adult, 5,000 IU/day of total input was needed to obtain a vitamin D level of 40 ng/ml. Of course the final vitamin D level obtained by any dose depends on baseline level, sun exposure and genetics. But he was speaking of the average adult.

    For those who want a more careful calculation, he stated his data showed that 70-80 IU/day/kg of body weight total input is needed to obtain a 25(OH)D of 40 ng/ml. That works out to about 35 IU/day/pound. So a 100 pound woman would need 3,500 IU/day of total input but a 300 pound lineman would need 10,500 IU/day. Keep in mind this is total input, which includes sunlight, diet and supplements.

    Taking all these factors into account, we conclude a recommendation of 5,000 IU/day is about right for the average adult.
    https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog...d-5000-iuday/#

    Go get tested. Are you anywhere near 115nmol/L? If not, up your dose, run it for 6 months, and test again.

    Repeat if necessary.
    Last edited by OingoBoingo; 03-27-2015 at 01:25 PM.
    FakeLove likes this.

  14. #14
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    East Coast Dungeon
    Posts
    28,936
    Quote Originally Posted by OingoBoingo View Post
    Hollis went on to say, "There is no sense to taking less than 10,000IU of Vitamin D daily."
    That's the only think I would dispute as we all don't respond the same to the same dosage. That dose puts me over the top of the scale, which is fine short term but long term excessive levels can be toxic.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

  15. #15
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74
    I didn't expect this to turn into a vitamin D discussion, but I guess you learn all the time. Based on that information I could basically quite safely double to 5000 I/U. I will test it when drawing blood next time and see where I'm standing at.

    What sort of metabolic issues low Vitamin D typically is causing?

  16. #16
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
    OingoBoingo is offline Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    561
    FakeLove & kelkel - I apologize for not responding to your posts. Am busy at the moment, and wanted to give the responses my full attention.

    With regard to the Vitamin D discussion; long before I joined the forum, the Finding a Physician sticky recommended checking Vitamin D. And if nothing else, Vitamin D certainly qualifies as anti-aging. Truth is, I believe Vitamin D to be every bit as important as Testosterone and hCG in my protocol.

  17. #17
    FakeLove is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    74
    No worries. I will make some searches about the vitamin D. Quite straightforward thing to get tested. And since now all feels fine, I would assume I'm not that far away from the optimum level. All in all I'm just happy that the alkaline phosphatase came down. I kinda expected it could do that, but it was a relief to see that it actually did.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •