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  1. #1
    ssj4goku1992's Avatar
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    22 Years Old with Gynecomastia and Low T

    Hello guys,

    I am having a big problem here and I know that there are some very knowledgeable guys on this forum, maybe you can help me with some input.

    I am 22 years old. I should be a ball of energy and youthness. Actually it is the exact opposite. I am tired all the time, low libido, my workouts take a toll on me, etc. Some time ago I clearly remember having absolutely no issues. To top it off, I discovered that my strange chest/nipples shape was actually Gynecomastia . I looked at a picture of me at 19 and I did not have any sort of Gyno so it should be 1 or maximum 2 years old.

    I am highly suspecting a hormone imbalance, after all how could I have all these symptoms, especially Gyno, when I never touched AAS before?!

    I did a few tests in August 2014, (part of a regular check-up, back then I did not know about my issues) and I got these results:

    Type of analysis------------Result--------------Range

    Cholesterol----------------117 mg/dl---------140-220
    Total Testosterone :-------380 ng/dl---------200-1000
    LH:------------------------1.0 mIU/ml--------0.57-12.7
    FSH:-----------------------6.1 mIU/ml-------0.95-11.9
    Prolactin:------------------10.1 ng/ml---------4.0-12.0

    Since then I started to introduce far more fats in my diet, hoping that I would raise my testosterone level. ( even though I did not realise that I have any issues back then, I just wanted a high testosterone level. )

    Now, since a month or so, I seemed to realise that there is something wrong with me because I am more tired than ever before. I realised that I have gyno and pretty much imediately went to the doctor.

    I did my full blood work and here are the hormonal results:

    Type of analysis ------------Result---------------Range
    Cholesterol----------------137 mg/dL----------140-220
    TSH-----------------------1.093 uIU/mL------0.35-4.94
    Free T4--------------------1.01 ng/dl-----------0.7-1.48
    Anti TPO-------------------0.35 UI/ml------------< 5.61
    FSH------------------------2.37 mUI/mL-------0.95-11.9
    LH--------------------------2.98 mIU/ml-------0.57-12.0
    Estradiol--------------------44 pg/ml---------------11-44
    Prolactin-------------------10.57 ng/ml--------3.46-19.4 - very strange, the former lab normal range was 4.0-12.0
    Cortisol-------------------- 9.9 ug/dL------------3.7-19.4
    Testosterone----------------724 ng/dl-----------142-921
    Free Testosterone----------1.38 ng/dl----------0.43-4.1

    ( Actually the result was in nmol/L but i translated it in ng/dl so it would be easier to read and interpret)
    SHBG----------------------34.15 nmol/L-------14.5-48.4

    Strangely, even though I did not increase my Cholesterol that much, I have doubled my Testosterone. I did not expect such a thing, I expected all my results to be awful because that is how i feel.
    So, Testosterone doubled, but Estrogen almost off the scale. No wonder I have Gyno and all these problems. Also, a high SHBG, high Prolactin and low free Testosterone. At least, this is how I interpret the results.
    If any of you have any idea about my results, what is wrong and what is good, and any suggestions about what should I do, please post them. I will be very appreciative.

    Now, my Endocrinologist said that she sees no problems in my results, wonders how can I have doubled my T levels just by eating more fats and only wanted me to try Nolvadex for my Gyno. What about an AI such as Arimidex ? To lower that Estrogen?

    Thank you very much for your future suggestions and have a nice day!
    Last edited by ssj4goku1992; 04-19-2015 at 07:55 AM.

  2. #2
    OingoBoingo's Avatar
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    Anastrozole will definitely lower your E2, but as you're not on Testosterone , I don't know if that is the first thing I would recommend.

    Supplementing with Zinc should help you. The Life Extension Foundation recommends Zinc 80mg per day. I take 75mg spread throughout the day and found that it has helped me control E2 levels.

    Oh, and stay away from booze! Especially beer.

  3. #3
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    Should add that LEF recommends E2 be kept between 20 and 30. Even slightly elevated E2 can cause problems down the road.

    And of course, going too low is also not good.

  4. #4
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    What time of day was the first blood work pulled compared to the second?
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    As already been stated, you're E2 [estrogen] looks to be high and can account for how you've been feeling. Anastrozole wold help, but it's hard to argue with an Endo... Try finding another Endo, maybe a male who specializes in male issues.

  6. #6
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    Hi guys,

    First of all thank you for your quick responses.
    I did blood work first thing in the morning, always. So the tests were both done when I woke up, within an hour or so until I reached the medical clinic.

    Since I realized my issues, I informed myself and saw that even a minor zinc deficiency can have a dramatic impact on your testosterone levels . So I started to supplement with zinc since a few weeks ago. It is 50 mg Zinc from GNC (zinc gluconate).
    I doubled the dose a few days ago and I started to wake up in the middle of the night or wake up in the morning very horny. So I really think that taking 100 mg daily helped my testosterone levels either by making my body produce more test or by having an anti-aromatasing effect and lowering my estrogen. Also along with the zinc I started to take 500 mg Magnesium from GNC ( magnesium oxide and magnesium gluconate ). I learned that it too, is an important trace metal and a deficiency can lead to low T levels.

    I do not drink alcohol so this is not an issue. I know that it has an estrogenic effect on the body.

    So, summarizing, I know that optimum Estradiol levels at my age should be around 22 picograms/ml. It definitely is a problem, after all, it caused me Gyno from out of nowhere...

    I will begin taking Nolvadex 40 mg/day the first week and then 20 mg/day until my Gyno disappears. Would that be ok? Should I couple an AI like Arimidex to lower my Estrogen levels too? Because I am feeling that taking only Nolva will just heal the effect ( Gyno ) but not the cause, ( Abnormal elevated estrogen levels for my age).

    I will try to see another Endo but from what I see doctors only treat diseases, they do not know and are not interested in optimizing your quality of life...

    Any suggestions guys? Thank you and have a nice day!

  7. #7
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    My concern with Anastrozole is that you don't want to overdo things and drive your E2 too low. If Zinc seems to be working for you, measure your E2 again.

    And if you don't know your Vitamin D level, check that too!

  8. #8
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Consider adding DIM and copper to your zinc for better results.
    You need a sensitive estrogen assay. Standard estradiol is geared to women and will read higher in men, thus causing unnecessary AI dosing.
    Nolva or raloxifene canl help with your gyno if it's not hard and fibrous. Takes time though.
    I'd opt for a Urologist.
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  9. #9
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    Maybe the test gave me a higher E2 reading but considering that I got Gyno out of nowhere, my E2 must be high! It probably was as high as 44 (the lab result) or even higher some time ago, when I developed the Gyno.

    So the Gyno is pretty much concrete hard evidence that my E2 levels were/are completely out of normality and something needs to be done about them. Friday I will see the urologist but I do not know how much he will help me... I will try though I do not have too high hopes for doctors in these kind of problems...

    Should I try DIM instead of Arimidex ? What do you think is the real cause of the problem? Diet? Environment? I am so confused... Also does Nolvadex lower E2? From what I know I think that it just blocks it effects while you are on it...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj4goku1992 View Post
    Should I try DIM instead of Arimidex?
    As kelkel said, supplement your Zinc with DIM and Copper.

    You seem to say above that you are doing better on Zinc, so get your levels checked and see where you stand.

    There also is a very good chance that you have a deficiency in Vitamin D; most people living in civilized countries do. Get your Vitamin D level checked!

  11. #11
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssj4goku1992 View Post
    Also does Nolvadex lower E2? From what I know I think that it just blocks it effects while you are on it...
    It's a serm and does not lower E2 at all. It blocks it at the chest receptors.
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  12. #12
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    Ok, I will try DIM and Copper. Probably I am deficient in Vitamin D for sure so I will start to supplement it too. Hopefully it will balance my estrogen and testosterone levels .

    Sadly I do not feel that libido boost anymore. It almost seems like the zinc stopped working... How long do you think should I wait before testing again? I mean if I introduce DIM, Copper and Vitamin D? Do you think they will have results in a week or two?
    If they will have results that quickly I will do some bloodwork very fast to see exactly if it works or I need to take a pharmaceutical AI. This week I will buy the Nolva and all of these. Any suggestion of dosages? Also do you have a good DIM source or should I try anything that I find?

  13. #13
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    Copper: Life Extension Foundation recommends that individuals consuming over 50 mg of zinc daily supplement their diet with 2 mg copper several times per week. There are others (including Dr. Crisler) who recommend a ratio of Zinc. Off the top of my head I can't remember the ratio, but will see if I can find it.

    DIM: I am unsure of DIM.

    Vitamin D: Dr. Bruce Hollis (one of the leading Vitamin D researchers) recently said, "It makes no sense to take less than 10,000IU of Vitamin D daily."

    I have been taking 10,000IU of D3 daily since about 1 June 2014 (except for about 6 weeks when I lowered my dose to 5,000IU daily), and recently tested at 135nmol/L, which is exactly where I want to be. I currently take D3 10,000IU daily, plan to test every 6 months, and won't lower the dose unless levels come back close to 225nmol/L.

    Vitamin D is a hormone, not a vitamin, and I think it's a good idea to check your level before supplementing. I regret not checking my level before supplementing.

  14. #14
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OingoBoingo View Post
    Vitamin D is a hormone, not a vitamin, and I think it's a good idea to check your level before supplementing. I regret not checking my level before supplementing.
    Absolutely. And I believe the ratio is 200-50-3 from memory. (Dim-zinc-copper)
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  15. #15
    ssj4goku1992's Avatar
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    Ok got it. I researched a bit and saw that Austinite was using 300 mg of DIM daily with his TRT protocol and said that he does not need Arimidex anymore. It would be a good idea, and probably far better to supplement daily with a natural product like DIM than with a medicine like Arimidex if we are talking for the rest of our lives.

    In 2 days I will visit the urologist and discuss these issues with him too, see if he has any ideas. I will see if I can do the Vitamin D test soon and will start to search for supplements of it, Copper and DIM. Vitamin D should be D3 right?

    Also, the Zinc that I take is Zinc 50 from GNC. (I use 2 tablets of it per day). On the label it says Zinc (as Zinc Gluconate) 50 mg. Is it 50 mg of Zinc Gluconate (which has 7.5 mg of pure Zinc) or 50 mg of pure Zinc? Does any of you have any idea?

  16. #16
    ssj4goku1992's Avatar
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    I went to the pharmacy. Sadly no DIM in my country, Romania, Eastern Europe.
    I will buy them online. Do you know the best brand or something like that? Something that people around here use?

  17. #17
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    Just noticed that LEF sells DIM with I3C: Indole-3-Carbinol with DIM, 60 capsules

    Been reading that the combination might be better than DIM alone.

  18. #18
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    I'd suggest you find a very knowledgeable Doc if your area within this space.

    IMO, messing around with tons of supplements can make matters worse. Hormonal balance is a rather tricky matter, and constant blood work for the first 6-9 months is not unheard of when trying to find your "sweet" spot.

    I wish you the best of luck

  19. #19
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    Hi guys,

    I would need to wait a few weeks until my DIM would come because as I have said, I need to order it from Amazon because there is no DIM sold in my country.
    Now, the price for Arimidex is very ok here, and I can go and purchase it from the drug store.

    So that's what I will do. Do blood tests every month and constantly monitor my E2 levels to be at 22 picograms/ml, not at 44 as how they are now. At the same time I will do the Nolva protocol in hoping that I will remove my Gyno.

    What would the Arimidex dose be for my situation? 0.5 mg/ week divided in EOD doses? And if that's the dose, how the hell do you split up a 1 mg pill in that many doses?

    Thanks for your responses!

  20. #20
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    I will do 0.125mg EOD Adex. Then I will see the blood tests and further adjust. Thanks!

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