22 week TRT updated with confusing labs. Any ideas would be appreciated.

Here is a very brief history of my lab results:
( all labs taken 8 days after injection)

Pre TRT: Total 232. Free 4.5 on 12 to 21 scale. Estro 29 on 15 to 42 scale.

120 Test cyp a week:
Total 350. Free 10. E 49 (insert AI)

140 a week:
Total 415. Free 12.09. E 30.3

160 a week:
Total 682. Free 21.8. E 41.6
(At this point Dr felt levels were a little high so he dropped me down which brings us to now)

150 a week:
Total 950. Free 36. E 47

How can my numbers go up so much when my dose was dropped?

He was so surprised by this that he had no explanation. He is leaving me on this dose and retesting me in 2 weeks in case of lab error. He said if this stays the same he may drop me back down to 120. On one hand I don't want to get dropped down but on the other the numbers are the numbers.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

As far as how I feel, I feel pretty good. Lots of energy, sex drive, etc. I am down 25 lbs from the day i started. I have gotten acne on my chest back and shoulders in recent weeks which was not a problem at all before. Mentally I am great. Sometimes I think I may have some minor estro mood sides. I just don't know what to think. I was excited to because I thought I would be dialed in at 150. Instead of changing doses every 6 weeks.

At what point did these test get done? How long had you been taking the test C when blood work was done on the doses you listed?

BW is just a snapshot in time and can change even if your protocol has not. Remember, you inserted an AI which reduced your estrogen and at the same time will elevate your Test level. Also as you continue to elevate your test dose that (in and of itself) will reduce your SHBG level thus elevating your free T. Your doc should know this. Start testing your SHBG as well as it will help explain your results to you and your doc.

You're also testing at your trough level. Meaning your T levels 24-48 hrs after injection (peak time) would be substantially higher. I'd suggest simply switching to a twice per week protocol. In other words, split your dose in half and inject every 3.5 days or so. Then pull BW just before an injection. You'll maintain more steady serum levels without the dramatic fall at the end of the week. It will also reduce spikes in estrogen and may allow you to come off of your AI, which should be your goal.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Joco71

At what point did these test get done? How long had you been taking the test C when blood work was done on the doses you listed?

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The labs were taken 8 days after an injection. Each level of dosage was run for roughly six weeks. Then due to lab results it was changed.

If you took test cyp, it has a half life of 8-10days(average). So, not being a mathematician, I can say your test levels went up because you were adding each week, and not losing everything you put in the last week. Make sense?

Had you been taking test prop, it has a half life of 1-2 days. Test enanthate also has a half life of 8-10 days(or more).

Your doctor is either an idiot, or you are not telling us the whole story.

My belief(for myself) is to have a test level of about 1000-1200. Also, you won't see a doctor prescribe this, but an estrogen blocker will lower the estrogen levels you saw increasing(you don't want your estrogen levels causing side effects). Our partner AR-R has liquidex which works great.

I do not believe your Doc is an idiot, as Kel stated above, BW is nothing more than a simple snapshot in time which can change pretty substantially with so many different variables. Follow thru and test again in 2 weeks, very well could be lab error, if not those are pretty stout numbers. You are easily over 12-1400 on day 2-3 if this was pulled on day 8 and you were 950.
The focus should be on the Free and you posted no ranges....

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Originally Posted by bullshark99

I do not believe your Doc is an idiot, as Kel stated above, BW is nothing more than a simple snapshot in time which can change pretty substantially with so many different variables. Follow thru and test again in 2 weeks, very well could be lab error, if not those are pretty stout numbers. You are easily over 12-1400 on day 2-3 if this was pulled on day 8 and you were 950.
The focus should be on the Free and you posted no ranges....

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If you are talking about free T I posted the range of 12 to 21. I imagine me being at 36 on my lowest day is unsafe according to what they said. Its at least way higher then they are comfortable for me to be at. When I was at 21 on my lowest day my Dr lowered me because he felt I was too high right after the shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

BW is just a snapshot in time and can change even if your protocol has not. Remember, you inserted an AI which reduced your estrogen and at the same time will elevate your Test level. Also as you continue to elevate your test dose that (in and of itself) will reduce your SHBG level thus elevating your free T. Your doc should know this. Start testing your SHBG as well as it will help explain your results to you and your doc.

You're also testing at your trough level. Meaning your T levels 24-48 hrs after injection (peak time) would be substantially higher. I'd suggest simply switching to a twice per week protocol. In other words, split your dose in half and inject every 3.5 days or so. Then pull BW just before an injection. You'll maintain more steady serum levels without the dramatic fall at the end of the week. It will also reduce spikes in estrogen and may allow you to come off of your AI, which should be your goal.

Hope this helps.

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My SHGB was 18.6 on a scale of 16.5 to 55.9 around when I started treatment. It is now at 15.7. Does that explain any of this?

Well that explains your high free T levels. The less shbg you have the less bound your test will be, thus more free T. With low shbg can come other issues though so it's not necessarily a good thing. Mid-range is actually best here. Many things influence shbg like your thyroid (hypothryoidism) diabetes and prolactin levels. Normally as we age shbg rises and test lowers, which is one of the reasons men end up with low T, high E and a myriad of other issues.

All that said, forget looking at your total T levels and gauge your progress via your free T levels. One school of thought to go with my suggestion of twice weekly injections is that it will suppress your shbg less by virtue of less T injected at one time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Well that explains your high free T levels. The less shbg you have the less bound your test will be, thus more free T. With low shbg can come other issues though so it's not necessarily a good thing. Mid-range is actually best here. Many things influence shbg like your thyroid (hypothryoidism) diabetes and prolactin levels. Normally as we age shbg rises and test lowers, which is one of the reasons men end up with low T, high E and a myriad of other issues.

All that said, forget looking at your total T levels and gauge your progress via your free T levels. One school of thought to go with my suggestion of twice weekly injections is that it will suppress your shbg less by virtue of less T injected at one time.

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I get full blood panels every couple months and they haven't seen any issues with thyroid function from them. Hopefully they are correct.

Ya it wasn't my total T that my doc didn't like, it was only in the 900's on a 350 to 1100 scale. It was the 31 free (12 to 21 range) on my trough day.

Thanks for your input. It helped me very much.