HCG question

**Notpretty** · 01-29-2016, 04:16 PM

I'm on andro-gel for TRT and have started on it about 8 months ago. I slowly increased from 1 to 2 pumps and now about 3. I went slow due to a prostate scare that has since been proven to have been temporary/infection related. The problem is I saw no increase in libido, energy, mood etc. I read up on HCG and gave it a shot last week. Holly crap....drive went off the charts. Mood increased noticeably and errections in AM happened daily for first time in ages. Dose was 500iu initial and 250iu twice a week going forward using 5000iu with 5 ml back water. Can anyone explain this massive shift in libido/mood etc and why the gel...which has raised my t level to 350/420 and 151 free T but seem to do nothing until adding HCG. It makes me wonder if my diagnosis is correct...prime/secondary. Maybe my issues are different and TRT is not addressing it. Maybe just using HCG alone? Can anyone explain this?

**kelkel** · 01-29-2016, 07:45 PM

How old are you?
What is the range on your free T?

HCG is a wonderful addition to your protocol. It keeps your testicals somewhat functioning by mimicking LH/FSH function. It completes you and very well may have been the missing link in your protocol. It improves intra-testicular testosterone and spermatogenesis. Read the sticky thread at the top of the forum on it and the links posted below. It can also increase intra-testicular estrogen so don't go over-board with it.

When it comes to your total T levels was the test done first thing in the morning before Gel application to show a trough level? We have no clue about a correct diagnosis or not without seeing pre-TRT blood work. That said, many doc's don't really know hormones and gel is an easy and safe fix for them to prescribe. My guess would be your are not primary as the HCG seems to have worked quickly for you, indicating functioning testicals.

HCG alone (called HCG Mono-therapy) is a form of TRT. Most people that I've known and all the reading I've done is that the subjective benefits of it do not match therapy with testosterone. But's that's subjective, obviously.

Human chorionic gonadotropin treatment of nonorganic erectile failure and lack of sexual desire: a double-blind study. - PubMed - NCBI

Preserving fertility in the hypogonadal patient: an update

**Notpretty** · 01-29-2016, 11:26 PM

I'm 50 years old. FT range rose steadily to a top of 151. Thanks for the feedback. Since I'm doing the HCG outside the doctor's protocol and having just started a week ago I have no blood work yet. My free T rose steadily as I increased the number of pumps. Don't recall exact numbers. they were initially slow to respond but eventually did. The doctor was fine with its progression. Total t was in am before gel. And pre TRT test was under 100...lowest score was 38. Highest was 102 with several n the 50-75 range...so...stupid low. But I was on medium to high dose opiates and history has shown I have a very bad response to opiates when it come to t level. Unfortunately I have no opiate free baseline. Just had 3 level spinal fusion and only 4 months opiate free. I probably should stop and get a baseline and do this right but I really don't want to get off for...what months to find out that my T is stupid low. My testes have always been...even pre opiates about almond size.

Im just amazed at my response to it. Time will tell if it fades as some others have indicated in this forum. I'm actually pretty familiar with what HCG is and the pathways it affects etc. I just was shocked at its affect on me. I would think secondary too.

I have some AI...liquidex and tamaxifin. Also have Clomid but understand it is more like HCG without the pathway disruption. Which of these, if any, would you suggest and dose and frequency.

**kelkel** · 01-30-2016, 09:56 AM

Only the AI if it's needed based on blood work. Tamoxifen and Clomid are SERMS and won't do anything for you while on exogenous testosterone . Tamox would only be good at this time to help mitigate gynocomastia issues.

**Notpretty** · 01-30-2016, 12:18 PM

Thanks again. I'll watch for gyno signs. Read the sticky on HCG and it suggests people on daily gel inject HCG daily at 100 iu. Any reason for that? Seems like a lot of pokes where 2-3 would be preferred. Less E conversion maybe?

FYI...my history with TRT goes back 7-8 years. Was on IM but had prostate scare and that moved things more conservative. In some ways I like gel...others not. Whatever works I'm good with.

Last. My HCG pins say 1/2 ml... And mixing 5000iu with 5 ml of bac means 1/2 full syringe should be 250 iu, right. The units on the syringe are for a different dose...so I'm just focusing on the MLs. Right thinking?

**kelkel** · 01-30-2016, 04:19 PM

Dosing at 100 iu's daily is just a personal preference. Some say they feel better doing so. Personally, I don't see the need to inject daily.
Mix your 5000 IU's vial with 2ml water then pull back to the .10 mark for 250 iu's.

**Notpretty** · 02-04-2016, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Dosing at 100 iu's daily is just a personal preference. Some say they feel better doing so. Personally, I don't see the need to inject daily.
Mix your 5000 IU's vial with 2ml water then pull back to the .10 mark for 250 iu's.

Do you think 700iu total a week is a concern for E2? I know labs are the way to really know, but I can't get my doc to run any test other than total T, PSA, free T, and red blood count. Sad but true.