Confirmed: Using Deca while on TRT will jack up T numbers if using ECLIA test method

[Charlie6]

Just to spread the word....If any of you guys are adding Deca to your TRT shots, make sure your doc isn't using a testosterone test which uses the ECLIA methodology. You WANT the LC-MS/MS.

My test levels before TRT (5 weeks ago) were: Total 322 (300-1080) Free 70 (47-244)

My test levels as of two days ago were: Total: 996 (300-1080) Free 272 (47-244)

(I've been pinning 50mg 2x/wk instead of 100mg 1x/wk as prescribed)

___________________________________

I saw these numbers and panicked because I didn't know what to say to my Urologist. What I ended up doing is emailing her saying that perhaps my ADD meds (stimulants) or something I'm taking for working out from GNC may be throwing the test off. I asked her to retest me using LC-MS/MS method.

She replied saying "Yes your test levels are a bit high, let's retest you, this time wait until right before your shot so we can see what the trough is."

I called the lab and it seems as though she never requested the LC-MS/MS test. She ordered the same ECLIA Bioavailable/SHBG/free/total that screwed me over last week.

How can I save myself from this? I can only stall the next bloodwork for maybe two weeks. I haven't added Deca to my shot in two weeks. Should I skip my next two test shots in hopes my test levels will show lower? I may try this and get y own blood work done to veryfiy, before going to the Dr.'s lab. I have an appointment with her on Monday, and I don't know if I should try to talk her into switching the test to LC-MS/MS. She may think that's really really weird of me to request.

What do you guys think?

Thanks


P.S. Here's the original post that started the discussion about Deca influencing ECLIA testosterone testing

[Charlie6]

....Unless you guys think my test could really be 996 after only 5 or 6 weeks on 100mg/wk of test C. But I doubt it. I figured my levels would be somewhere in the 450-550 range, but not 996

[Baxter35]

For one, don't add any other compounds while getting dialed in for trt. If you want to add later that's fine but while you're still in the early testing phase you want to stick with dr protocol 100%. That said, it's unlikely the deca influenced your test levels. When did you get blood drawn in relation to pinning? With twice weekly pinning if you had bloods done too close to pinning you could be measuring your peak which may well be in the 900's. The doc is on the right track requesting a trough reading.

[Charlie6]

For one, don't add any other compounds while getting dialed in for trt. If you want to add later that's fine but while you're still in the early testing phase you want to stick with dr protocol 100%. That said, it's unlikely the deca influenced your test levels. When did you get blood drawn in relation to pinning? With twice weekly pinning if you had bloods done too close to pinning you could be measuring your peak which may well be in the 900's. The doc is on the right track requesting a trough reading.

Hey Baxter, thanks for your reply. You're right...it was foolish of me to add Deca and I've learned my lesson. I feel like an idiot. With that being said, it makes me feel better to know that the Deca may not have affected the test. The total amount of deca I took was about 200mg (divided into two shots). So it's not like I took a whole bunch of it for several weeks, or anything.

I pinned 50mg of test Sunday night at 11PM, and had my test drawn on Wednesday morning around 8AM.

Perhaps I should skip only one shot (at 50mg) and wait those extra 3.5 days, and THEN get my bloodwork done again. What do you think? Is it worth it to get my own blood work done before heading into the Dr's lab?

[Baxter35]

It depends on how comfortable you are talking to your doc. There's nothing wrong with the twice weekly smaller shots, and as you see it can be beneficial toward higher test levels vs once a week. But if you have any concern that she may not like you changing things and/or may reduce your dose then I'd lean toward skipping one dose as you mentioned. That should give you a test level you're doc will be happy with for now and you can decide later on what to do in the future.

[Mr.BB]

It is quite possible for 100mgs weeks to show 900's, specially if you tested the day after the testosterone shot.

Dont understand all your worries, dont you want to have 900's??

Still should not be using deca at this point.

[Baxter35]

I'm assuming his doc thought the levels were higher then she wanted. But yes, 900's is a great level and not above range.

[Charlie6]

It is quite possible for 100mgs weeks to show 900's, specially if you tested the day after the testosterone shot.

Dont understand all your worries, dont you want to have 900's??

Still should not be using deca at this point.

Hey Mr. BB, good to know that 100mg/wk could indeed produce such results. And the only reason I'm worried is because I figured the high numbers would raise suspicion from my Urologist since I've only been on for about 5 or 6 weeks. And I'll definitely leave the Deca alone after this scare.

[Charlie6]

I'm assuming his doc thought the levels were higher then she wanted. But yes, 900's is a great level and not above range.

Yeah, she didn't seem too worried. I'll copy and paste exactly what she said: "You are right; the testosterone levels are a little high. I will place an order in the computer to recheck your testosterone levels. This time, let's draw the labs right before an injection to see which you trough level is."

So she is wondering about it, but not overly concerned. I'll skip one shot before my next blood work

[Mr.BB]

Dont skip any testosterone shot, skip the deca thats for sure.
Make sure you draw blood the day before next test shot, like your doc suggested

[Charlie6]

Dont skip any testosterone shot, skip the deca thats for sure.
Make sure you draw blood the day before next test shot, like your doc suggested

Got it, I've ixnayed the Deca but I'll stay on my usual shot schedule. I'll just make sure to get bw done right before my shot (farthest point in time away from previous shot).

All advice is appreciated

[kelkel]

Agree with Baxter and BB. Remember with twice weekly pinning your never at a trough level. Test peaks in 24-48 hrs or so metabolism dependent so it's highly likely you pulled BW at a peak level, or close to it anyway. That's the whole point of twice weekly. When it comes to your doc, would she handle you telling her about going two times per week? Maybe it'll teach her something.....if she's willing to learn.

When it comes to deca influencing T levels I still don't buy into it. Deca is not test and won't read as such and I've run low dose deca many times with my TRT. Hell, I'm prescribed it but get it myself as compounding pharmacies want to much to brew it up. Definitely believe that 100 mgs per week can get you to those levels. I personally run 60 mgs x 2 per week and my TT almost always comes in over 1500 via Labcorp and my FT about 10 pts above range.

[jimmyinkedup]

Agree with Baxter and BB. Remember with twice weekly pinning your never at a trough level. Test peaks in 24-48 hrs or so metabolism dependent so it's highly likely you pulled BW at a peak level, or close to it anyway. That's the whole point of twice weekly. When it comes to your doc, would she handle you telling her about going two times per week? Maybe it'll teach her something.....if she's willing to learn.

When it comes to deca influencing T levels I still don't buy into it. Deca is not test and won't read as such and I've run low dose deca many times with my TRT. Hell, I'm prescribed it but get it myself as compounding pharmacies want to much to brew it up. Definitely believe that 100 mgs per week can get you to those levels. I personally run 60 mgs x 2 per week and my TT almost always comes in over 1500 via Labcorp and my FT about 10 pts above range.

Kel I got into this very argument with someone on another forum and damn if he didn't back up his claim that deca could in fact cause false elevated levels of test in blood work with a couple very credible studies/sources. I just did a brief search on that forum to see if I could find the thread but I couldn't. I still do not want to believe that it is true but the evidence he presented was pretty compelling.

[almostgone]

Below is a link Chauffeur posted, think the info is on page 7.





Nandrolone was tested and was considered as interference substance;
therefore, the sponsor has the following limitations in the labeling:
“Do not use samples from patients under Nandrolone treatment”


http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_d...ws/k093421.pdf

I called Labcorp and the test my Dr. has been ordering is the ECLIA type. Going to speak to her about going with the LC-MS/MS test. I have pharma Deca sitting here ready to go.

[kelkel]

Guys, my only point is that the "interference" is minimal to the point of not being relevant.

[Chauffeur]

Guys, my only point is that the "interference" is minimal to the point of not being relevant.

As with everything in this game, I'm sure there is a fair amount of "your mileage may vary". But here is my very limited experience on the matter...

I added a low dose of Deca (125mg/week) to my TRT protocol, without changing my doses of testosterone or hCG. My protocol usually kept my TT around 900 ng/dl, and FT right around the top of Labcorp's reference range.

On my next set of labs, my TT (ECLIA) showed that I was >1500 ng/dl. Didn't have my FT measured that time. Blood draw was done 4 days after last injection.

I did some research and found out about the potential for interference when using Nandrolone, and decided to retest using the LC-MS/MS assay about a month later.

My TT results were just over 1000 ng/dl, and FT was >50 pg/ml...again, Labcorp's ranges. Blood draw was done 3 days after last injection.

Tough to draw any real conclusions from a couple sets of labs, but the potential for interference with Nandrolone seems pretty plausible to me.

I plan on running some more labs in the future to help figure out if this was just a simple lab error, or if Nandrolone was the culprit. I'm ok with anecdotal evidence when that's all we've got to draw from. Right now, I'm leaning towards the potential for interference to be legitimate.

[kelkel]

Thanks for that Chauffeur! That's definitely a "relevant" difference. Look forward to your future labs. I'm able to pull what BW I choose with my doc so the next time I run low dose Deca I'll run it both ways as well. Be interesting.

[hawk14dl]

I've been over 990 on 80mg/wk of test. . So yes, completely possible

[almostgone]

Thanks for that Chauffeur! That's definitely a "relevant" difference. Look forward to your future labs. I'm able to pull what BW I choose with my doc so the next time I run low dose Deca I'll run it both ways as well. Be interesting.

Please post it up if you have it both tests run, Kel. Be interesting to see/compare the results.

[almostgone]

As with everything in this game, I'm sure there is a fair amount of "your mileage may vary". But here is my very limited experience on the matter...

I added a low dose of Deca (125mg/week) to my TRT protocol, without changing my doses of testosterone or hCG. My protocol usually kept my TT around 900 ng/dl, and FT right around the top of Labcorp's reference range.

On my next set of labs, my TT (ECLIA) showed that I was >1500 ng/dl. Didn't have my FT measured that time. Blood draw was done 4 days after last injection.

I did some research and found out about the potential for interference when using Nandrolone, and decided to retest using the LC-MS/MS assay about a month later.

My TT results were just over 1000 ng/dl, and FT was >50 pg/ml...again, Labcorp's ranges. Blood draw was done 3 days after last injection.

Tough to draw any real conclusions from a couple sets of labs, but the potential for interference with Nandrolone seems pretty plausible to me.

I plan on running some more labs in the future to help figure out if this was just a simple lab error, or if Nandrolone was the culprit. I'm ok with anecdotal evidence when that's all we've got to draw from. Right now, I'm leaning towards the potential for interference to be legitimate.

Thanks, Chauffeur, for posting this up.

[Charlie6]

Thanks for the great discussion, guys. Looking forward to seeing more test results from people who are able to test with both methods. Keep the input coming!

[kelkel]

Please post it up if you have it both tests run, Kel. Be interesting to see/compare the results.

Just thinking about this and the problem with me (and there are many) is that even on my TRT dose I'm usually over 1500 and labcorp doesn't give a number at that point. I may fall apart if I lower my dose!

[Charlie6]

Kelkel you seriously must have the coolest TRT doc in the whole world. They let you do whatever the hell you want AND you catch dinner/drinks with them? Good for you man

[almostgone]

Just thinking about this and the problem with me (and there are many) is that even on my TRT dose I'm usually over 1500 and labcorp doesn't give a number at that point. I may fall apart if I lower my dose!

LOL, if I were in that position, I would feel the same way. Maybe we can just kind of keep the thread going and hopefully get our Drs. to order the LC-MSMS test vs. the ECLIA.
I'm not a medical professional or even very bright, , but it seems asinine to even have a hormone test designed to check for a specific level of a given hormone (testosterone) that can potentially be skewed that much by a 19-nor.
I'm considering asking my Dr. if she would just use the code for the LC-MSMS test since I have to pay some $$ towards the ECLIA test anyway. I would rather pay extra for the more accurate testing (which would also lessen my worries about my low dose Deca use).
Not sure how I will introduce the topic to her, but I'm working on it.

[Chauffeur]

LOL, if I were in that position, I would feel the same way. Maybe we can just kind of keep the thread going and hopefully get our Drs. to order the LC-MSMS test vs. the ECLIA.
I'm not a medical professional or even very bright, , but it seems asinine to even have a hormone test designed to check for a specific level of a given hormone (testosterone) that can potentially be skewed that much by a 19-nor.
I'm considering asking my Dr. if she would just use the code for the LC-MSMS test since I have to pay some $$ towards the ECLIA test anyway. I would rather pay extra for the more accurate testing (which would also lessen my worries about my low dose Deca use).
Not sure how I will introduce the topic to her, but I'm working on it.

Keep in mind that it seems as though free T values can still be affected by nandrolone. My free T value came back ">50 pg/ml", rather than providing a value that was within the range. This is abnormal for me.

I'm not aware of an LC-MS/MS assay for free T, so your labs could potentially look a little funny despite having your total T measured by LC-MS/MS.

[almostgone]

Keep in mind that it seems as though free T values can still be affected by nandrolone. My free T value came back ">50 pg/ml", rather than providing a value that was within the range. This is abnormal for me.

I'm not aware of an LC-MS/MS assay for free T, so your labs could potentially look a little funny despite having your total T measured by LC-MS/MS.

Thanks for.the info, Chauffeur. You guys will drag me into the 21rst century before much longer.

[kelkel]

Thanks for.the info, Chauffeur. You guys will drag me into the 21rst century before much longer.

Kicking and screaming....

[almostgone]

Kicking and screaming....

LOL, you know me very well, Kel.