New labs, high T, high E2

**LFH40** · 04-12-2016, 11:30 PM

Just got my 6 month labs back. Total test up over 1400, too high. My e2 is at 51, I'll attach my labs. Doc wants me to drop from .38 on the syringe to .30 and I do this twice weekly. On 500iu of hcg twice weekly as well. Doc also wants me to go on AI at .5mg twice weekly. I'm nervous to take that much as I want to bring E2 down but don't want to crash it. I have noticed my sex drive has decreased over the last few months and it has got to be the e2. When it's in range I'm a horn ball. The high test does nothing when the e2 is out of wack. Think I should take the .5mg for awhile twice weekly or maybe just a quarter tablet till I seem back in range? I hate to get back on anastrozle, but I gotta bring it down. Thoughts? Oh, been on TRT for nearly three years now..

**LFH40** · 04-12-2016, 11:33 PM

**BigPimpin76** · 04-13-2016, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by LFH40

Just got my 6 month labs back. Total test up over 1400, too high. My e2 is at 51, I'll attach my labs. Doc wants me to drop from .38 on the syringe to .30 and I do this twice weekly. On 500iu of hcg twice weekly as well. Doc also wants me to go on AI at .5mg twice weekly. I'm nervous to take that much as I want to bring E2 down but don't want to crash it. I have noticed my sex drive has decreased over the last few months and it has got to be the e2. When it's in range I'm a horn ball. The high test does nothing when the e2 is out of wack. Think I should take the .5mg for awhile twice weekly or maybe just a quarter tablet till I seem back in range? I hate to get back on anastrozle, but I gotta bring it down. Thoughts? Oh, been on TRT for nearly three years now..

500 of Hgh twice weekly is too much in my honest opinion.
It may desensitize the leydig cells.
.5 of Anastrozole a bit too much as well.
I would suggest Aromasin since its an amazing and clean compund that wouldn't crash your Estrogen.
With Aromasin you could do 12.5 four day's consecutive then taper down to 12.5 mg x 2 wkly. Just go by how you feel.

Im no pro in this,but after a while on TRT you learn a bit.
Just my 2 cents maybe some of the Bros may chime in

Good luck

Kind regards from the Beef Department

**kelkel** · 04-13-2016, 01:42 PM

So you're dropping down to 60 mgs twice per week, correct? If so, dropping that down as well as lowering your HCG down to 250 x 2 as BP mentioned will make a difference for you. How much only BW will tell. You can retest in 4 weeks or thereabout. If you were to add in Adex I definitely would not go with .5 x 2. At best, .25 x 2. It's always much easier make one change or so at a time when possible.

**LFH40** · 04-13-2016, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

So you're dropping down to 60 mgs twice per week, correct? If so, dropping that down as well as lowering your HCG down to 250 x 2 as BP mentioned will make a difference for you. How much only BW will tell. You can retest in 4 weeks or thereabout. If you were to add in Adex I definitely would not go with .5 x 2. At best, .25 x 2. It's always much easier make one change or so at a time when possible.

Yes Kelkel, you're correct. 60 mg.s twice per week. I like your idea of dropping the hcg as well. Any way you could explain why dropping that would help? I'm not a pro with regards to the hcg, but I was wondering if lowering it would decrease my chances of fertility? We are trying IVF again...did it in November and wife had multiples but lost them due to her own medical issues. Just wondering.

I will also retest independently as well in about a month. I'm waiting for LowT to get back to me (taking forever for ANYTHING since they switched ownership) I need them to ship me Anastrozole, (They don't have an Aromasin option anyway) and then I'll only take .25 twice weekly. I was on .5 a year or so ago and crashed the e2 to 9!!!! That was wayy too low.

I'll give it a whirl dropping the hcg in half and lowering the test and taking .25mg of AI twice weekly and see what happens and report back in about a month!

**kelkel** · 04-13-2016, 06:38 PM

Remember, all it takes is one swimmer, not a million. Guys on cycle routinely get their other halves pregnant. Could it decrease it, statistically yes.
HCG increases intratesticular T and E. So dropping your dose will reduce your E, your T is already being replaced. Make sense?

That said, there's an argument to be made to stay at your current HCG dose and try to mitigate your E2 by decreasing your T and adding in a small amount of adex. Here's an excerpt from an Andrology Journal re HCG. It's on point for what you're interested in. Hope it helps.

Human chorionic gonadotropin therapy
A known critical element in the development of healthy spermatogenesis is high intratesticular testosterone .13 In men using exogenous testosterone, these levels can be greatly diminished. Intramuscular human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) therapy is an option shown to protect against, or at least to diminish, the impact that exogenous testosterone has on intratesticular testosterone levels . In a randomized, controlled trial of 29 healthy men randomly assigned to four groups, testosterone enanthate was given 200 mg per week plus either intramuscular saline, 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day. Sperm, intratesticular testosterone levels, and gonadotropins were measured at day 0 and day 21. Intratesticular testosterone levels were suppressed by 94% in the placebo group, 25% in the 125 IU hCG treatment group, and 7% in the 250 IU hCG treatment group, and they were increased 26% from baseline in the 500 IU hCG treatment group.13 Thus, even with supraphysiologic doses of testosterone replacement, healthy levels of intratesticular testosterone were maintained by low-dose hCG therapy.
The benefits of hCG therapy are not limited to maintaining healthy levels of intratesticular testosterone levels alone. These benefits also include maintenance of spermatogenesis in males receiving testosterone supplementation. We have previously demonstrated the ability of hCG therapy to maintain spermatogenesis in men receiving TST. When 26 hypogonadal men receiving TST via transdermal patches or intramuscular injections and concomitant low-dose hCG were studied retrospectively, factors such as serum and free testosterone, estradiol, serum parameters, and pregnancy rates were evaluated. Results showed no differences in semen parameters during 1 year of follow-up, and none of the men became azoospermic during the treatment.14
These studies indicate that low-dose hCG may be beneficial for men requiring testosterone supplementation therapy during their reproductive years and that intramuscular or transdermal TST does not necessarily significantly impact spermatogenesis. Further studies are needed to determine whether this benefit is sustained both qualitatively and quantitatively.

**LFH40** · 04-13-2016, 08:47 PM

Man, I really don't know what I would do for piece of mind if there weren't guys like you on here, Kelkel. You're a wealth of knowledge and us guys on here are lucky to have someone like you around. I know I don't post much when things are status quo and the going is good (TRT-wise), but it's like "coming home" when something goes awry and I'm freaking out about numbers or the lack of wood, or what have you, and then to come here and within a day..and sometimes hours, have an answer which calms my nerves from veteran TRT guys like yourself. For this I am eternally grateful.

**fireeater49** · 04-14-2016, 04:33 PM

Good advice from the guys. Personally, I would cut back test a little, (me -- 50mg e3d) 250 iu HCG E3D (IMHO timing of shot does not matter) and retest. I take no ai and follow this routine and has done me well. I am 52 fyi