30y old, 263ng/dl, 1m of Testogel 50mg->Nebido. How are your Test levels on Nebido?

[iron885]

Wonder what your Test Peak Levels / normal levels are while on Nebido?




Hello.

I'm new here. Im 30 years old and think I finally get the help I need.

When i was 24 I had my first suspicions of low T so I went to a doc. He told me 250 is normal and in the range (fuking lol - my new doctor was just shaking his head in disbelief). So... a few years I didn't do anything. I got more and more tired. Now... I think last time I really went out with friends is maybe once every 6 month. I have zero Energy, zero Motivation, im depressed and lethargic and everything seems to be a hassle.

4 Months ago I went to a doctor who said I'm too low. I decided to start Clomid/Clomiphen first because I read that it might restart natural production in some cases. I went from 263 to 715 but my Estradiol also increased up to 107 (!) and even arimidex didnt help AT ALL (although i had doses up to 0,5/1mg daily at the end - im happy im off this shit)

due to this i felt a LITTLE bit better, but not by much, because the negative sides were blocking the good effects and the high estradiol made me emotional and made me gain weight - it seemed to be impossible to drop fat although I went to the gym every 2 days - i then read that its due to clomid/arimidex.





NOW:

I've searched for a new doc who is also a lot in medical journals and seems to be much better.

I was there today. He now gave me 50mg Testogel and told me to use it for 1month, then we have another Appointment and he will get me on Nebido, because he said its the "Gold Standard" right now and doesnt give me such bad Emotional Rollercoasters like the other stuff. Plus .... after some time and loading phase and the "booster" ill be able to maintain at 1 shot every 3 months - sounds good.



I've pretty much read almost every Nebido Thread in this Forum, but unfortunately a lot of people don't mention their bloodwork.

My "Goal" would be firstly obviously to get better and stop feeling like shit. But later I would like to be around 1000ng/dl because I hope to make good gains in the gym with a 4 times higher T-Level than before. Will I make good gains ?

If not - I heard about a lot of people who blast&cruise with Nebido, so I was wondering if its okay to do 1-2cycles a year and TRT with Nebido the rest of the year. I told myself that I never wanted to use steroids for BB Purposes because I was afraid of being infertile etc - but now that its inevitable anyhow. Might as well get aesthetic. After 8 years of busting my ass in the gym and 2 years of counting every single calorie (yet all my buddies who ate crap made MUCH more gains and were MUCH more ripped)


Thoughts? Greets

[Simon1972]

not sure about nebido so cant comment.

not sure you will reach 1000ng/dl, with nebido it wont happen, its a slow release so dependant upon your metabolism /body chemistry you'd be looking around 650-700 maybe??? and taper right down before your next injection.

in my opinion, get on the twice weekly injection. SUBq into stomach fat 50mg each, and check for Estrogen conversion for an AI after 3 weeks.

i do it, hit my sweet spot and have no issues. Nebido is something you cant readily tweak. and honestly 10 mins twice a week after a shower is no big deal, not when i look this good!!

[iron885]

not sure about nebido so cant comment.

not sure you will reach 1000ng/dl, with nebido it wont happen, its a slow release so dependant upon your metabolism /body chemistry you'd be looking around 650-700 maybe??? and taper right down before your next injection.

in my opinion, get on the twice weekly injection. SUBq into stomach fat 50mg each, and check for Estrogen conversion for an AI after 3 weeks.

i do it, hit my sweet spot and have no issues. Nebido is something you cant readily tweak. and honestly 10 mins twice a week after a shower is no big deal, not when i look this good!!

From what I've read there were a few people who reached levels over 1000 on Nebido (I've read every single thread in this forum) and my doc says there is nothing else because using Enanthat is "too oldschool" and too much of Emotional Rollercoaster" and nobody in Europe uses it anymore. So I guess Ill try this first and probably just cycle once a year with Test E? Not sure what to do. I had another Doc who is from an Anti-Aging / Hormonal Clinic and he said something about bi-weekly injections too. So im sure he would get me on it. Question is if its worth, because I have a much better feeling with the new doc... Could be wrong though

[iron885]

No other opinions?

[Mr.BB]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Total testosterone doesnt mean much, its just a number. Free testosterone is what really can affect you as is the testosterone which is available for binding at your androgen receptors.
Nebido (or any TRT protocol) is designed to replace lost physiological T, and yes, it is the prescribed method in europe pretty much everywhere as it mantains T levels in the physiological range, without the rollercoster of enanthate and with much less injections. Injection timing is important for the regular hypogonadal men who doesnt inject himself.

Think you should really make a proper diagnostic of your hormones because it is not normal at you age to have hypogonadism without an underlying reason. Thyroid problems, pituitary problems, testicular problems, etc needs to be addressed before band-aiding the resultant low T.

[iron885]

You are looking at it the wrong way. Total testosterone doesnt mean much, its just a number. Free testosterone is what really can affect you as is the testosterone which is available for binding at your androgen receptors.
Nebido (or any TRT protocol) is designed to replace lost physiological T, and yes, it is the prescribed method in europe pretty much everywhere as it mantains T levels in the physiological range, without the rollercoster of enanthate and with much less injections. Injection timing is important for the regular hypogonadal men who doesnt inject himself.

Think you should really make a proper diagnostic of your hormones because it is not normal at you age to have hypogonadism without an underlying reason. Thyroid problems, pituitary problems, testicular problems, etc needs to be addressed before band-aiding the resultant low T.

Thanks for the input. I have checked all of the above. I just wasnt able to post the results yet, because I don't have them with my right now. But will update. Everything has been checked. He told me that my LH is normal which indicates that my balls just don't want to produce although the signal is here.


Update: Its in german, but i think most of the things have the same/almost the same name. Pls let me know if you need any translation.

[iron885]

Bump for answers.

Anyone thinks I should try to get Test E bi-weekly injections, instead of Nebido? I would need to consult another doc. My only concern about nebido is, that it will take so long to build up finally.

[Mr.BB]

Dont think you should get any testosterone , your free test is not bad and thats the most important.

Of course you should do what you want or desire, but TRT is not without problems.

About the bloodwork, did you have any infection?

Your vit D is very low, if you supplement it to make it higher your testosterone will also raise.

Your thyroid is also starting to get lazy, TSH close to 2 and free T4 on low side. You should keep testing it in the future, or maybe supplement some iodine and retrest.

[Back In Black]

I love my nebido, 1 shot every 11 weeks. Yes there are peaks and trough but I don't really notice them. 1 week after my shot I get a heightened sex drive but because I get my next shot before my levels dip too much I don't feel a fall off.

[iron885]

Dont think you should get any testosterone , your free test is not bad and thats the most important.

Of course you should do what you want or desire, but TRT is not without problems.

About the bloodwork, did you have any infection?

Your vit D is very low, if you supplement it to make it higher your testosterone will also raise.

Your thyroid is also starting to get lazy, TSH close to 2 and free T4 on low side. You should keep testing it in the future, or maybe supplement some iodine and retrest.

One of the most respected endo in the world (Abraham Morgenthaler - Harvard) says if you are sub 350, you don't even have to look at other values, because its way too low for Total Test. I know free test plays an important role, but from what i've read if your TT is that low, it doesn't even matter anymore what your Free T is.

He even states that even if your TT is 500 if you show symptoms (which i do, all of them) you can still suffer from too Low T.

And Nope no Infection. Thanks for your input.

Oh and i supplement with Vit D already. Daily

I am not trying to be insensitive toward someone trying to boost their testosterone through what they see as a reasonable alternative, but I just do not see the wisdom here. For example, let's take a hypogonadal male that has total testosterone of 300 ng/dl who starts megadosing iodine. He might get a boost up to 450 ng/dl. Now that increase is a nice increase, but it is probably not going to make that much of a difference for him. And he is risking hypothyroidism and goiter for this relatively small boost.

Goiter. A goiter is basically an enlarged thyroid gland and is associated with hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism and in some cases probably thyroid cancer.

not allowed to post urls yet but its from peaktestosterone.com

But I've read that too low iodine might be the reason for increased estradiol and I seem to have big problems with E2. So I've just ordered some off of Amazon. 150micrograms a day is what I've read should be used (=100% of daily need and not megadosing. seems like only megadosing makes an "substantial" impact. But still 36% increasee (which he states) is still fairly low. That would put me to 357,68.

[iron885]

I love my nebido, 1 shot every 11 weeks. Yes there are peaks and trough but I don't really notice them. 1 week after my shot I get a heightened sex drive but because I get my next shot before my levels dip too much I don't feel a fall off.

Thanks for the answer. Do you mind sharing your bloodwork / how it affected your T levels/Estradiol. Before & After? Thanks

[Mr.BB]

One of the most respected endo in the world (Abraham Morgenthaler - Harvard) says if you are sub 350, you don't even have to look at other values, because its way too low for Total Test. I know free test plays an important role, but from what i've read if your TT is that low, it doesn't even matter anymore what your Free T is.

He even states that even if your TT is 500 if you show symptoms (which i do, all of them) you can still suffer from too Low T.

Total testosterone is comprised of globulin binded testosterone (SHBG), albumin binded testosterone and free testosterone. SHBG is a non-active testosterone, all non-SHBG-bound testosterone is considered bioavailable. You have very low SHBG which should also mean low free T, but in your case for some reason it doesnt, your free T is quite normal.
If you decide to go TRT by all means do it, truly think that men should be free to do what they want with their hormones (its a steroid board lol), but just make usre you know all the risks and consequences.
Unfortunnaly some ppl start TRT just to band aid symptoms of low T without solving the underlying problem causing the low T. Low T is ussualy not a condition but a symptom of something else, speccially before 40.

And Nope no Infection. Thanks for your input.

Oh and i supplement with Vit D already. Daily

High lymphocyte count and high antistreptolysin is pretty definite for an infection. Why your doc tested antistreptolysin?? its ussually only tested when is suspected of strep infection. Have your doc seen the results yet? Might only be some sore throat heheh

If you supplement Vit D and you are still that low, either you are not absorving it or you are supplemmenting to little.

Are you supplementing DHEA?

[iron885]

Total testosterone is comprised of globulin binded testosterone (SHBG), albumin binded testosterone and free testosterone. SHBG is a non-active testosterone, all non-SHBG-bound testosterone is considered bioavailable. You have very low SHBG which should also mean low free T, but in your case for some reason it doesnt, your free T is quite normal.
If you decide to go TRT by all means do it, truly think that men should be free to do what they want with their hormones (its a steroid board lol), but just make usre you know all the risks and consequences.
Unfortunnaly some ppl start TRT just to band aid symptoms of low T without solving the underlying problem causing the low T. Low T is ussualy not a condition but a symptom of something else, speccially before 40.



High lymphocyte count and high antistreptolysin is pretty definite for an infection. Why your doc tested antistreptolysin?? its ussually only tested when is suspected of strep infection. Have your doc seen the results yet? Might only be some sore throat heheh

If you supplement Vit D and you are still that low, either you are not absorving it or you are supplemmenting to little.

Are you supplementing DHEA?

Not supplementing DHEA. My doc didn't say anything to those results he said everything else is fairly normal. Actually I gave the results to two different docs. the last one is a pretty well respected doc who also does a lot of publications in journals. He said that its a problem of my balls. They don't want to produce although the "signal" is strong enough from the Brain...

Its not that i want it so badly (go on TRT) but 1) I have so low energy, that since 1year+ i avoid any contact with friends and don't go out anymore, i have so low libido, that i had to always throw in vi a gra and get myself rly motivated to have se x and then i was exhausted, i have a bad mood in general and im not motivated anymore to do anything (100% no depression, I've checked that - i want but i just don't have the energy coz im constantly exhausted from basically nothing). And I've worked 10 times harder in the gym and eat 10 times cleaner than all of my friends, yet im the one with the worst gains by far, which is quite frustrating. Also I seem to have gained quite some fat in my midsection area and no matter what I do (and i know how to train, how to do HIIT, how to sprint, how to count calories, how to...) its not coming off, no matter what I do.

I've purchased the Book of Morgenthaler (Testosterone for Life) if you know it. And I seem to have almost all of the symptoms. It seems like the best way to live my life fully and not "rot" away. From what I read he says that its fairly safe, if administered and monitored right.

I just feel like im 60+ and that sucks hard...

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Back in Black do you ever blast or do other compounds while getting the Nebido injection ? You have just been around a good while and curious if you ever blast while on TRT ?

I love my nebido, 1 shot every 11 weeks. Yes there are peaks and trough but I don't really notice them. 1 week after my shot I get a heightened sex drive but because I get my next shot before my levels dip too much I don't feel a fall off.

[iron885]

Bump. Would really love to get a reply from Marcus300

Wondering if you guys have issues with e2. So far on clomid/testogel my e2 was astronomically high thus making me feel like SHIT (feel like that right now) - i get my Nebido Shot tomorrow. I've called the doc and told him I can't wait 2 more weeks as I feel extremly bad and testogel doesnt do it for me. makes me feel even worse.

[Simon1972]

Bump. Would really love to get a reply from Marcus300

Wondering if you guys have issues with e2. So far on clomid/testogel my e2 was astronomically high thus making me feel like SHIT (feel like that right now) - i get my Nebido Shot tomorrow. I've called the doc and told him I can't wait 2 more weeks as I feel extremly bad and testogel doesnt do it for me. makes me feel even worse.

its a balancing act- at the beginning you will be gauging how you feel and if you have a receptive dr, he will allow changes to your protocol, adjusting as you go. it could take a year or more to fine tune your protocol. I have also heard testogel raises E higher than implants- stick to one or the other.

keep taking the same drugs, at the same doses and only adjust after each blood test, if your dr is on the ball you will end up at optimal.Be patient and methodical.
Having a good dr on your side is crucial.
No better friend
No worse enemy.

[hammerheart]

From what I've read there were a few people who reached levels over 1000 on Nebido (I've read every single thread in this forum) and my doc says there is nothing else because using Enanthat is "too oldschool" and too much of Emotional Rollercoaster" and nobody in Europe uses it anymore. So I guess Ill try this first and probably just cycle once a year with Test E? Not sure what to do. I had another Doc who is from an Anti-Aging / Hormonal Clinic and he said something about bi-weekly injections too. So im sure he would get me on it. Question is if its worth, because I have a much better feeling with the new doc... Could be wrong though

I've reached levels above 1500 (that's as far as my lab can tell) with a single, isolated shot of (4ml) Nebid. About Test E, that's also what my endo told me. Nebid was inconstistent for me, yet I was refused an alternative other than gels, which also I tried and drove T down to castration level. He's not my endo anymore..

You see, problem with Nebid (for some!) can be the protocol. It's the same thing with "old school" schedule of 250mg EOW Test Enathate all over again. And while you might break open an amp of testoviron and perphaps throw half of it away, doing so with Nebid can be pretty much expensive.

Also you cannot cicle Nebido, let alone year-wise. Due to its slow-release, it takes a lot to "kick in". For some could be six months. For me it was, well, never. I have been more than a year on it and couldn't even get my beard growing steadily. However, this can be an advantage with excess aromatization, so be sure to weight factors carefully.

Thanks for the input. I have checked all of the above. I just wasnt able to post the results yet, because I don't have them with my right now. But will update. Everything has been checked. He told me that my LH is normal which indicates that my balls just don't want to produce although the signal is here.


Update: Its in german, but i think most of the things have the same/almost the same name. Pls let me know if you need any translation.

Underfunctioning testes usually results in hypergonadotropic (ie HIGH luteotropin) hypogonadism. Normal LH with low test is still a hypothalamic/pituitary issue. For some it could even be mixed primary/secondary, however.

Your SHBG is very low, which means fast clearance of T. You might need shorter than average injections interval. Also consider a "loading" second pin of Nebido at 6 weeks (just as Bayer advices), otherwise it will take forever for your T levels to stabilize.


Lastly, did you check for autoimmune thyroid disease? If that is your case, iodine might worsen it, so beware.

[Mr.BB]

Lastly, did you check for autoimmune thyroid disease? If that is your case, iodine might worsen it, so beware.

Good advice. If your thyroid has problems you will continue to have low energy, etc, no matter how much testosterone you inject.