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Thread: Test Results - Terrifying

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    Test Results - Terrifying

    total t 287 range 349 -1197
    Lh 5.2 range 1.7-8.6
    FSH 3.1 range 1.5-12.4
    estrodial 11 range 7.6-42.6

    What should i do go on TRT? any recommendations?

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    anyone have any comments? should i start trt,,,im thinking about hoping on board.

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    global-illuminati is offline New Member
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    Might want to give it a bit more than hour and a half to let some of the vets find the thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by global-illuminati View Post
    Might want to give it a bit more than hour and a half to let some of the vets find the thread.
    True

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    bump

  6. #6
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    I responded to your pm but was not sure whether you were already on TRT or not as I had not seen this thread.

    Any recent cycles or prohormone use? If so, when and what?
    Any further BW you can post?
    Age, height, weight?
    Any testicular trauma?
    What time of day was BW pulled?

    Your LH value is good which indicates the issue may be primary in nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I responded to your pm but was not sure whether you were already on TRT or not as I had not seen this thread.

    Any recent cycles or prohormone use? If so, when and what?
    Any further BW you can post?
    Age, height, weight?
    Any testicular trauma?
    What time of day was BW pulled?

    Your LH value is good which indicates the issue may be primary in nature.
    i did a cycle about 3 years ago but bailed 5 weeks into it and went into pct. no trauma. blodd work was pulled around 8am. im hvaing blood work done again this saturday to see if my levels r the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I responded to your pm but was not sure whether you were already on TRT or not as I had not seen this thread.

    Any recent cycles or prohormone use? If so, when and what?
    Any further BW you can post?
    Age, height, weight?
    Any testicular trauma?
    What time of day was BW pulled?

    Your LH value is good which indicates the issue may be primary in nature.
    should i begin thinking about trt now?

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    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post
    i did a cycle about 3 years ago but bailed 5 weeks into it and went into pct. no trauma. blodd work was pulled around 8am. im hvaing blood work done again this saturday to see if my levels r the same.
    Age?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post
    should i begin thinking about trt now?
    Thinking, yes. But first thing is a competent doctor to evaluate everything. No need to pull the trigger to quick if you don't have to.
    macmathews and almostgone like this.
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    AR's King Silabolin's Avatar
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    Everybody is different and there i no exact answers witch suits everyone. If i was you i think i would just try 5 weeks clomid 100 100 50 50 50. Couldnt do any damage. And if it got you in the high 400, you would be almost ok and no need for trt.
    Ive red when it comes to musclebuilding capabillities there is almost no difference in the range 300-1000. Its just easier to burn more fat when you are at the upper range.

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post
    total t 287 range 349 -1197
    Lh 5.2 range 1.7-8.6
    FSH 3.1 range 1.5-12.4
    estrodial 11 range 7.6-42.6

    What should i do go on TRT? any recommendations?
    What i find interesting is that your Total T is on the low side but your gonadotropins (LH/FSH) are in range. Indicates a secondary testicular issue. if that's the case, then HCG may not be helpful to any potential TRT program you might enter into. Agree with KelKel, you need to have a competent doc help you, but finding one is easier said than done.

    Regarding your E2. Do you know if it was the correct assay? Sensitive (LC/MS/MS)?

    Might also want to have SHBG and Free T checked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    What i find interesting is that your Total T is on the low side but your gonadotropins (LH/FSH) are in range. Indicates a secondary testicular issue. if that's the case, then HCG may not be helpful to any potential TRT program you might enter into. Agree with KelKel, you need to have a competent doc help you, but finding one is easier said than done.

    Regarding your E2. Do you know if it was the correct assay? Sensitive (LC/MS/MS)?

    Might also want to have SHBG and Free T checked.

    that would indicate primary hypo.. But as I understand it LH/FSH are released in pulses and can very ALOT

    Mac

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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Yeah, you are correct, primary not secondary. I always get the two mixed up. Bottom line, it indicates problem may be with the testicles not the hypothalamus/pituitary.

    Correct, gonadotropins are pulsitle, but ranges are for early morning testing, and earlier post said blood work was done at 8 AM, so the results should be within range if there are no hypothalmaic/pituitary issues. Being the results are in range, it pretty much eliminates the hypothalamus/pituitary as the source of the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Correct, gonadotropins are pulsitle,.
    Correct, but you'd be surprised how often they do pulse though. As we age the pulses actually get more frequent but smaller probably due to altered GnRH via the hypothalamus.
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    Primary hypogonadism is usually associated with gonadotropins ABOVE range. Normal LH still suggests the issue is secondary. What about testes size and sperm volume?

    Ever tried supplemental zinc?

    Anyway I'd go for a clomifene cycle first. I wish my endo tried this route first, but unfortunately in my country the whole estro issue has no place in clinical practice regarding low t.
    Last edited by hammerheart; 06-10-2016 at 11:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Primary hypogonadism is usually associated with gonadotropins ABOVE range. Normal LH still suggests the issue is secondary.

    But it's not always one or the other. Often it's a combination of both. I guess the question is what is the op's normal LH level. And without historical levels to evaluate it's a crapshoot right now.

    How on earth do they not consider E2 in your home country? What's their logic or lack therof?
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    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Correct, but you'd be surprised how often they do pulse though. As we age the pulses actually get more frequent but smaller probably due to altered GnRH via the hypothalamus.
    Funny you mention this, I did my master's thesis in the neuroendocrine control of GnRH. I can't even begin to count the thousands of vials of blood I used to measure and quantify pulsitle LH profiles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    But it's not always one or the other. Often it's a combination of both. I guess the question is what is the op's normal LH level. And without historical levels to evaluate it's a crapshoot right now.

    Indeed, but frank failure of the testes should be easy to diagnose. Aging likely reduces responsiveness to LH, yet we don't know for OP.

    How on earth do they not consider E2 in your home country? What's their logic or lack therof?
    Low t is not really a thing here. National guidelines are very conservative about diagnosis and TRT. I've consulted an endocrinologist whom stated my starting tT of 150 is "absolutely normal" because LH (1.7) was "in range". An urologist told me that it would be impossible to dial down SHBG (66 nmol/l) because "it's a marker of lack of endogenous production". Most of the doc I've talked to seem to lack practical expertise about managing low t. The most common protocol is Test E 250 E4W (yes, WEEKS). I was luckily to get prescribed Aveed/Nebido, but when I ran into E2 issues (dizziness, bloating, insomnia, irritabily, brain fog, at some point even ankle oedema) I got just no answer. It looks like an alien matter from another dimension. No doctor on the entire peninsula will prescrive an AI or a SERM, not even for overt gyno. HCG ? Only for fertility! Who cares if I'm 26? Let's not talk about HPTA restart...


    That's why I'm doing TRT on my own.

  19. #19
    Youthful55guy is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Give the pulsitile nature of LH, about all the morning LH assay tells us is whether or not the individual is likely (or not) to be primary or seconday by being below or at the top of the range. Even then, repeat tests are necessary to ensure you just didn't happen onto a peak or naidar value. It's really not of much value.

    With regard to E2, it shocks me how many docs here in the USA feel it's of no value too. Most of them don't even know which test to order either, which just adds to the confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Low t is not really a thing here. National guidelines are very conservative about diagnosis and TRT. I've consulted an endocrinologist whom stated my starting tT of 150 is "absolutely normal" because LH (1.7) was "in range". An urologist told me that it would be impossible to dial down SHBG (66 nmol/l) because "it's a marker of lack of endogenous production". Most of the doc I've talked to seem to lack practical expertise about managing low t. The most common protocol is Test E 250 E4W (yes, WEEKS). I was luckily to get prescribed Aveed/Nebido, but when I ran into E2 issues (dizziness, bloating, insomnia, irritabily, brain fog, at some point even ankle oedema) I got just no answer. It looks like an alien matter from another dimension. No doctor on the entire peninsula will prescrive an AI or a SERM, not even for overt gyno. HCG ? Only for fertility! Who cares if I'm 26? Let's not talk about HPTA restart...


    That's why I'm doing TRT on my own.

    That's horrible that they're so far behind the times. At least you've done your homework to handle it responsible on your own. So many don't.
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    just had another blood draw this past saturday, 6/11, so i should have more labs to come... hopefully they arent as low as before!!!

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    i have new labs that were drawn 1 week later...

    tst total 390 348-1197
    lh 7.4 1.7-8.6
    fsh 4.5 1.5-12.
    estradiol 17.7 7.6-42.6


    still have low T
    Last edited by Keep_It_Moving; 06-14-2016 at 08:12 PM.

  23. #23
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    400 arguably is no more low t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    400 arguably is no more low t.

    i would say 390 is still low t for a 31 year old male

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    global-illuminati is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Ive red when it comes to musclebuilding capabillities there is almost no difference in the range 300-1000. Its just easier to burn more fat when you are at the upper range.


    Do you have any sources or links for this statement? All one needs to do is talk to any person on trt or hiv patient to realize there might be conflicting evidence to the 300-1000 statement.

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    global-illuminati is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    400 arguably is no more low t.



    Pretty sure the people around 400 who feel like poop and no longer themselves will vigorously argue its no so arbitrary to make such claims. On the other hand a doc that sees ranges from a spread sheet, as to what is considered norms simply based on what is seen across an age range, and doesn't bother taking into account a/the person(s) overall well being would probably be so ignorant to argue that low t figure is not an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by global-illuminati View Post
    Pretty sure the people around 400 who feel like poop and no longer themselves will vigorously argue its no so arbitrary to make such claims. On the other hand a doc that sees ranges from a spread sheet, as to what is considered norms simply based on what is seen across an age range, and doesn't bother taking into account a/the person(s) overall well being would probably be so ignorant to argue that low t figure is not an issue.
    Doctors are concerned about medical conditions, not well being. That's the difference. Low t stands somewhat in the middle, we patients truly understand how it can impact our lives, but from a docs perspective the major implications are psychosomatic, sure there is increased risk to develop obesity, diabetes and heart disease, but you need full blown hypogonadism for that, not just "suboptimal" T. The lack of standards for diagnosing hypogonadism as a malady sure won't help either, as will many GPs lacking training on the matter. Natural age decrease represents an additional challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post
    i would say 390 is still low t for a 31 year old male

    So you are 31? It was asked to you before. 400 is low indeed, but how symptomatic it is? Ever pulled free test or SHBG? What's your %bf? Are you supplementing with zinc? It is required by the testes to function, and mild deficiency is widespread.

    There is a 40% increase since last reading, looks like the HPTA is resuming its normal function. LH signal is good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Doctors are concerned about medical conditions, not well being. That's the difference. Low t stands somewhat in the middle, we patients truly understand how it can impact our lives, but from a docs perspective the major implications are psychosomatic, sure there is increased risk to develop obesity, diabetes and heart disease, but you need full blown hypogonadism for that, not just "suboptimal" T. The lack of standards for diagnosing hypogonadism as a malady sure won't help either, as will many GPs lacking training on the matter. Natural age decrease represents an additional challenge.




    So you are 31? It was asked to you before. 400 is low indeed, but how symptomatic it is? Ever pulled free test or SHBG? What's your %bf? Are you supplementing with zinc? It is required by the testes to function, and mild deficiency is widespread.

    There is a 40% increase since last reading, looks like the HPTA is resuming its normal function. LH signal is good.

    i havent had those tests pulled, all i have is what labcorp sent me from my privatemdlabs using the female hormone panel. the common one... so am i secondary or primary? i know i have low t, theres no doubt there. 390 for a 31 year old is low, i dont care what anyone says. prior to that it was 287ish...super low... im thinking my protcol will be something like 100mg test 2x week 500iu hcg 2x week and .25mg adex 2x week...how does that sound for starters?

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    Are you planing on doing self trt?
    Im 30 and my test sits at 380 naturally, and I am supplementing with everything possible on the face of the earth to fix any deficiencies and nothing helped, and I also passed on ignorance of medical institutions unwillingness to look at my condition and treat me, I started self-trt almost few weeks ago 2 x 75mg test-e and 2x 250iu hcg . Im ~12%bf and I will try further cut my BF or at least maintain it and will see if I can get away without an AI. Blood tests due in next 4 weeks to check where Im at with my dosing

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle View Post
    Are you planing on doing self trt?
    Im 30 and my test sits at 380 naturally, and I am supplementing with everything possible on the face of the earth to fix any deficiencies and nothing helped, and I also passed on ignorance of medical institutions unwillingness to look at my condition and treat me, I started self-trt almost few weeks ago 2 x 75mg test-e and 2x 250iu hcg. Im ~12%bf and I will try further cut my BF or at least maintain it and will see if I can get away without an AI. Blood tests due in next 4 weeks to check where Im at with my dosing
    yeah im self prescribing my trt through a trt onliine clinic. they hook it up and its legit so i dont need to worry about dosings. how about u

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post
    i havent had those tests pulled, all i have is what labcorp sent me from my privatemdlabs using the female hormone panel. the common one... so am i secondary or primary? i know i have low t, theres no doubt there. 390 for a 31 year old is low, i dont care what anyone says. prior to that it was 287ish...super low... im thinking my protcol will be something like 100mg test 2x week 500iu hcg 2x week and .25mg adex 2x week...how does that sound for starters?
    Neither, it looks like those are your physiological levels. Testes seems to be a bit under working however.

    Yeah earlier readings were even lower but since when have you started monitoring T? You got a 40% increase last bw, levels might get higher next time.

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep_It_Moving View Post

    yeah im self prescribing my trt through a trt onliine clinic. they hook it up and its legit so i dont need to worry about dosings. how about u
    For now im completely on my own

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