Help!

[jl39]

Hi all! I'm looking for some advice here. I'm 26 years old, 180lbs. I have ran a few cycles before and been silly about pct. Half assed doing it, no hcg etc. Fast forward to now and I'm 26 with a total T of 404. Don't really get morning wood or random erections at all. Sex is pretty much non existent. Now my doc says I'm "in the normal range" well for who? A 65 year old man. I don't know what to do, and I don't have the funds and great insurance to keep bouncing around to doctors. Self medicating has crossed my mind and just going back and saying look get on board with me cause I'm already doing it. What should I do? Any replies greatly appreciated

[Youthful55guy]

My first inclination is to check Free T & SHBG levels. It might explain why you are feeling low on T. It might also help you get a doctor on board if there really is a medical problem.

Regarding self-medication. It's easy if you know what you are doing and are willing to spring out of pocket for the labs you'll need. However, my experience in discussions in the various TRT boards is that most guys don't have a clue as to the fundamentals of a good program. I strongly suggest that if you decide to go down this path that you do your research and seek advice from guys you trust before doing anything.

Personally, I'd take advice from anyone with less than several years experience with a grain of salt. While it's not all that complicated, there's a lot to learn.

[jl39]

Exactly! And that's why I'm here because I know I'm not a know it all. A guy here a while back emailed me a source, but I've never used online ordering. I'm kind of nervous to tell you the truth. Don't even know if the place is still legit. My free+weakly bound t was 101.

[Youthful55guy]

Exactly! And that's why I'm here because I know I'm not a know it all. A guy here a while back emailed me a source, but I've never used online ordering. I'm kind of nervous to tell you the truth. Don't even know if the place is still legit. My free+weakly bound t was 101.

We need to know the normal lab ranges on all tests. They vary from lab to lab, so the 101 doesn't really tell us anything. Keep in mind too that the ranges they give you are for your age group, so they have to be interpreted differently for different ages. However, given you are 26, the ranges they give you should be good targets to shoot for.

[jl39]

Serum 404 ...range(348-1197)
Free+weakly % 25 ...range(9-46%)
Free +weakly 101....range (40-250)
Tsh 1.74... Range (.45-4.5)

[jl39]

That was all he tested for guys, like I said, I had to pull teeth to get him to do those

[hammerheart]

Weakly bound test is of no use, you still need to know what the free fraction is.

Your total test is sub-normal for your age anyway.

[Mr.BB]

Weakly bound test is of no use, you still need to know what the free fraction is.

Your total test is sub-normal for your age anyway.

Disagree with you on weakly bound.

Free plus albumin bound make up the bio-available testosterone which is a good indicator. Although, it would have been much better to also include SHBG.

On topic, if you feel low t symptoms and its not something you can help by fixing lifestyle (diet, exercise, sun, etc), you need treatment.

If you cant afford it you should have thought about it before, cause low t is always a possibility when using steroids .

[Simon1972]

I don't have the funds and great insurance to keep bouncing around to doctors. Self medicating has crossed my mind and just going back and saying look get on board with me cause I'm already doing it. What should I do? Any replies greatly appreciated

Clomid therapy?

do more/better bloodwork...this gives us nothing to work with really

[hammerheart]

Disagree with you on weakly bound.

Free plus albumin bound make up the bio-available testosterone which is a good indicator. Although, it would have been much better to also include SHBG.

SHBG, indeed.

But actual free T is what can cross the BBB efficiently. Albumin-bound T is easily available for peripheral receptors, but the brain is where you need T for symptoms to subside.

[jl39]

Well I get a lot of sun, started supplementing D-3, I eat a lot of fats, natty peanut butter, avocado, etc. Haven't been able to work out for some time now cause of an injury. Recently quit dipping, not sure how that factors in. I haven't had a second test since this, but I still feel close to the same

[jl39]

Would you all recommend any supplements? Or anything? I'd rather not go
Down the road I'm about to but I will if I have to

[Youthful55guy]

Would you all recommend any supplements? Or anything? I'd rather not go
Down the road I'm about to but I will if I have to

Regarding your overall levels, I think they are low for a guy your age and probably account for the tired, Low T symptoms. But convincing a mainstream doc of that, and to treat a guy within range, particularly a 26 year old guy is not going to happen. He/she will refer you to an endocrinologist and they are even more conservative with male hormone treatment.

Regarding supplements to increase natural T. My opinion is that they are worthless and a big waste of money. Been there, done that, never again. One exception is that Vit D3 may help to lower SHBG and increase free T. There's pretty good evidence that if you are deficient in D3, it can manifest itself with higher SHBG levels. But you can still have high SHBG while supplementing with Vit D3. I'm a walking testimony to that.

Regarding Bioavailable T, it's been my experience that it parallels Free T nicely and is a good substitute.

Someone mentioned clomid. I think it might be worth trying, but I would first try to get your E2 levels tested. And make $^#*! sure it's the sensitive LC/MS/MS method. Most docs will just order the standard female test and that's worse than not knowing at all because it gives you false information. If you have to, spring for it yourself. It's only $45 from Discountedlabs.com and they always offer you a 5% coupon. Here's the link to the test information: ESTRADIOL , Sensitive (LC/MS/MS) - Discounted Labs.

It is possible that you have higher than normal E2 levels and that is dampening your natural production. E2 is the most potent negative feedback hormone in the control of T production. Much more so than T or DHT, or even the synthetic androgens. So, know you E2. If it's high, start there with low dose anastrozole (Arimidex brand name). HOWEVER, many guys go overboard with E2 treatments for fear of developing gynocomastia (the dreaded bitch tits). Guys need some E2 too for normal sexual function. if you drive it too low, you may end up with a bad case of ED, so testing an precise control is necessary.

The next step might be Clomid, which is a selective estrogen receptor blocker. It very specifically binds to E2 receptors in the hypothalamus and blocks the negative feedback of E2. This in turn increases GnRH, which increases LH & FSH, and then T. One drawback to clomid is that it does have some E activity and some guys are more sensitive to it than others. I cannot tolerate anything more than about 12 mg per day. it is possible that a short course of clomid might help to reset things.

Oh, I'm assuming you've never been kicked in the balls or suffered any other sort of testicular trauma or you would have mentioned it Right? Same goes for hhiplash or any sort of spinal injury. It's obvious what a kick in the balls could mean to t productions, but whiplash has also been linked to damage to the connective tissue between the hypothalamus(part of the lower brain) and the pituitary. If that is damaged, the GnRH which is produced in the hypothalamus may not make it to the pituitary and that can result in secondary low T. It is also linked to low GH production by the same mechanism.

Finally, consider discussing your case with the new site sponsor. Not sure if they would take on such a young guy, but might be worth asking. They seem to be a bit more progressive than the run of the mill mainstream doc. Have no idea of how they compare on price.

Hope that helps! You are going to get a lot of advice in these forums and some if it conflicting, so I go back to my original piece of advice, take the information you get here (even mine) with a grain of salt and do your own research.

[kelkel]

Op you need full blood work as listed in the Finding A Doc sticky thread at the top of this forum. It's the only real way to assess things and chart a course forward. Other than that, great advice from YG55 above.

[jl39]

I have an apt to see him the 8th. Should I just tell him a full blood panel? He is real weird about it and has a comeback for all my questions to make them seem irrelevant.

[Youthful55guy]

I have an apt to see him the 8th. Should I just tell him a full blood panel? He is real weird about it and has a comeback for all my questions to make them seem irrelevant.

He's going to look at you and say a full panel of what? "Panel" is just a jargon term for labs that are often bundled together. However, each lab is it's own entity.

Take Kel's advice and take the time to read through the stickies at the front end of the forum, particularly the labs that need to be done. From what you tell me, your doc doesn't really understand male hormone treatment (most do not), so if you choose to stick with him, then you need to educate yourself.

[jl39]

So the Doc pretty much said I was fine again, he even wrote a
Prescription for Xanax because he said I worry too much. I didn't even get it filled because I know that's not my problem. Would really love to just grab some test, hcg , and AI and become my own doctor. I want my manly desire I had in my teens to want to have sex and not be asleep out at the bars. What about this increase my T? I would like to know more about what they do and how it works.

[Keep_It_Moving]

So the Doc pretty much said I was fine again, he even wrote a
Prescription for Xanax because he said I worry too much. I didn't even get it filled because I know that's not my problem. Would really love to just grab some test, hcg, and AI and become my own doctor. I want my manly desire I had in my teens to want to have sex and not be asleep out at the bars. What about this increase my T? I would like to know more about what they do and how it works.

contact IMT and find out... they offer great service, good prices and amazing stuff for Low T.... give them a call and talk with TODD, he rocks! goodluck man

[jl39]

Will do, is there anyway to get pharm grade stuff online?

[hammerheart]

So the Doc pretty much said I was fine again, he even wrote a
Prescription for Xanax because he said I worry too much. I didn't even get it filled because I know that's not my problem. Would really love to just grab some test, hcg, and AI and become my own doctor. I want my manly desire I had in my teens to want to have sex and not be asleep out at the bars. What about this increase my T? I would like to know more about what they do and how it works.

Becoming your own doc is something more than obtaining a bunch of prescription medications. My 2.

[jl39]

That came off as wrong. I will do the bloods and other things required. I have
A lot to learn, I know this