Anastrozole/Estradiol question

[Relogic]

I'm ab to start 100/mg test cyp every 3.5 days. I'm hesistant about starting any anastrozole until I get my blood tested to see if I need it. How long should I take before getting my blood tested for estradiol after starting my injections? What symptoms should I be aware of indicating that my estradiol is too high and that I should start taking anastrozole? I know it varies from person to person, but what would be a good starting point if indeed I do need to start taking it? I've heard anywhere from .25 mg a week to 2.5 mg a week and all inbetween. I would assume that if its needed that the least amount required to be effective would be optimal. How long after starting X amount of anastrozole should I wait to be tested again for estrdiol levels?

[hammerheart]

Why not start lower? 200mg weekly is a borderline amount. Try between 50mg and 75mg 2x weekly, and don't worry about estradiol. Symptoms of high estradiol are individual but bloating and water gain are the most common. Wait at least eight weeks before pulling bloods and be sure to get the sensitive E2 assay, if available.

Why are you getting on TRT? Is it doc prescribed? What are your T levels?

[Relogic]

Doctor prescribed TRT. Did 200/mg in the past for ~2 years but with an obscene amount of anastrozole, finasteride, and HCG and it turned out horrible.

This time I want to greatly reduce or eliminate anastrozole if possible (was taking .5 mg 5 days a week), not doing any finasteride (was 0.25 mg a day), and reducing the amount of HCG taken last time (was 2000 iu a week) to 500 iu a week. Still gonna do 200/mg test cyp a week.

Been off TRT ~6 - 7 months.

Fasted 10 hrs at 0800:
Testosterone , Total, LC/MS 345.6 LOW 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.3 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL
Estradiol <5.1 LOW 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

[Mr.BB]

Why not start lower? 200mg weekly is a borderline amount. Try between 50mg and 75mg 2x weekly, and don't worry about estradiol. Symptoms of high estradiol are individual but bloating and water gain are the most common. Wait at least eight weeks before pulling bloods and be sure to get the sensitive E2 assay, if available.

Why are you getting on TRT? Is it doc prescribed? What are your T levels?

This ^^^^ x2

[hammerheart]

Doctor prescribed TRT. Did 200/mg in the past for ~2 years but with an obscene amount of anastrozole, finasteride, and HCG and it turned out horrible.

This time I want to greatly reduce or eliminate anastrozole if possible (was taking .5 mg 5 days a week), not doing any finasteride (was 0.25 mg a day), and reducing the amount of HCG taken last time (was 2000 iu a week) to 500 iu a week. Still gonna do 200/mg test cyp a week.

Been off TRT ~6 - 7 months.

Fasted 10 hrs at 0800:
Testosterone , Total, LC/MS 345.6 LOW 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.3 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL
Estradiol <5.1 LOW 7.6-42.6 pg/mL

2000IU HCG is an insane amount for TRT. It will spike your E2 through the roof, hence the need for anastrozole.

Try no more than 250IU two times a week, subcutaneous.

You can add 0.25mg ANA each day after pinning Test if you really wish to do that amount, which I do not recommend. That would total 0.5mg weekly. I doubt you need more.


What dictated the need for finasteride?

Do you have any LH, FSH, PRL bloodwork made?

[Relogic]

What dictated the need for finasteride?

Do you have any LH, FSH, PRL bloodwork made?

My doctor at the time said it was to protect against hairloss mainly, even though I have no history of it in my family.

And this is my full blood test:

Stats:
35 y/o male
6'3"
194 lbs

Test Results fasted for 10 hrs at 0800 (my result in bold):

CBC With Differential/Platelet

WBC 6.4 3.4-10.8 x10E3/uL
RBC 4.56 4.14-5.80 x10E6/uL
Hemoglobin 14.9 12.6-17.7 g/dL
Hematocrit 43.8 37.5-51.0 %
MCV 96 79-97 fL
MCH 32.7 26.6-33.0 pg
MCHC 34.0 31.5-35.7 g/dL
RDW 12.3 12.3-15.4 %
Platelets 200 150-379 x10E3/uL
Neutrophils 53 %
Lymphs 37 %
Monocytes 7 %
Eos 3 %
Basos 0 %
Neutrophils (Absolute) 3.3 1.4-7.0 x10E3/uL
Lymphs (Absolute) 2.3 0.7-3.1 x10E3/uL
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 0.1-0.9 x10E3/uL
Eos (Absolute) 0.2 0.0-0.4 x10E3/uL
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 0.0 0.0-0.2 x10E3/uL
Immature Granulocytes 0 %
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 0.0-0.1 x10E3/uL

Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)

Glucose, Serum 86 65-99 mg/dL
BUN 20 6-20 mg/dL
Creatinine, Serum 1.04 0.76-1.27 mg/dL
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 93 >59 mL/min/1.73
eGFR If Africn Am 107 >59 mL/min/1.73
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 19 8-19
Sodium, Serum 144 134-144 mmol/L
Potassium, Serum 4.2 3.5-5.2 mmol/L
Chloride, Serum 103 97-108 mmol/L
Carbon Dioxide, Total 27 18-29 mmol/L
Calcium, Serum 9.4 8.7-10.2 mg/dL
Protein, Total, Serum 6.9 6.0-8.5 g/dL
Albumin, Serum 4.6 3.5-5.5 g/dL
Globulin, Total 2.3 1.5-4.5 g/dL
A/G Ratio 2.0 1.1-2.5 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.5 0.0-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 48 39-117 IU/L
AST (SGOT) 17 0-40 IU/L
ALT (SGPT) 15 0-44 IU/L

Lipid Panel

Cholesterol, Total 202 HIGH 100-199 mg/dL
Triglycerides 98 0-149 mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 55 >39 mg/dL 0
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 20 5-40 mg/dL
LDL Cholesterol Calc 127 HIGH 0-99 mg/dL

Thyroid Panel With TSH

TSH 4.060 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
Thyroxine (T4) 9.3 4.5-12.0 ug/dL
T3 Uptake 29 24-39 %
Free Thyroxine Index 2.7 1.2-4.9

Testosterone, Free+Total LC/MS

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS 345.6 LOW 348.0-1197.0 ng/dL
Free Testosterone(Direct) 8.3 LOW 8.7-25.1 pg/mL

Estradiol

Estradiol <5.1 LOW 7.6-42.6 pg/mL
Roche ECLIA methodology

IGF-1

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I 161 88-246 ng/mL

[hammerheart]

You should take a further look into thyroid function. TSH is elevated (4). You need to pull TSH, FT4, FT3. Drop the other reading as they are of no use. FT4/3 means the Free quota of thyroid hormone available and not the total like T4.

As for the fina I see no reason to take it. The cholesterol will hopefully normalize once you restore healthy estradiol levels.

[Relogic]

You should take a further look into thyroid function. TSH is elevated (4). You need to pull TSH, FT4, FT3. Drop the other reading as they are of no use. FT4/3 means the Free quota of thyroid hormone available and not the total like T4.

Ill start checking in to that, thanks!

So if I do 100/mg test cyp 2x a week along with 250/iu hcg x2 a week and take no anastrozole, wait 8 weeks to get my blood tested for estradiol, is there a high risk within that time frame of developing gynecomastia? Or does gynecomastia come from having high estradiol over a longer period of time?

[hammerheart]

You might develop nipple sensitivity but that's normal. I doubt you will get real gyno at those dosages, but you can take anastrozole as I told you above since some excess estrogen is likely to build up.

[Relogic]

Very silly question, I almost feel dumb for asking, but I plan on going on a vegan diet for a while. Usually on this diet I intake a large quantity of beans, which normally contain plenty of zinc. I'm confident I'll be getting more than the essential amount needed for normal functioning thru this diet alone. Zinc I've read is an aromatase inhibitor. Would that be a viable way to control estrogen? Would it have compunded effects with the anastrozole?

I'm sure by now you've noticed my suspicion of anastrozole. I think a lot of the terrible symptoms I developed during my first run with TRT were partly caused by the massive amount of anastrozole I was taking, so I'd like to skip it if possible. However, .25 mg x2 a week seems ultra reasonable compared to what I was taking, which was 2.5 mg a week.

[hammerheart]

Very silly question, I almost feel dumb for asking, but I plan on going on a vegan diet for a while. Usually on this diet I intake a large quantity of beans, which normally contain plenty of zinc. I'm confident I'll be getting more than the essential amount needed for normal functioning thru this diet alone. Zinc I've read is an aromatase inhibitor. Would that be a viable way to control estrogen? Would it have compunded effects with the anastrozole?

You won't be getting enough Zn for physiologic function from a vegan diet. Beans are a really poor source. Minerals are poorly bio-available from plants sources. If your going to do this be sure to get a good multi vitamin-mineral. I'm not a supporter of vegetarianism let alone veganism.

Even with supplementation, Zn is useless for estrogen control. Its effects, if any, are minimal.

[Relogic]

Interesting, I always thought you could. Main reason I was going to do it was to lower my cholesterol. Last time on TRT, my total cholesterol was 258. Ate vegan for 2 months and it dropped to 158. I'm not a vegan cheerleader, but always wanted to try it to prove it was worth a damn like a lot of people say. I felt no better or worse doing it, but blood work proved it helped drop my cholesterol at least. And I theorize it did that because my fiber intake went up dramatically. Was getting 60 - 80g's a day.

[Simon1972]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1479303/

Some light reading.
I'd steer clear of vegan lifestyle. Drop carbs, lots of studies support beneficial drop in cholesterol when carbs are minimised. I've experienced it first hand.

[Mr.BB]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1479303/

Some light reading.
I'd steer clear of vegan lifestyle. Drop carbs, lots of studies support beneficial drop in cholesterol when carbs are minimised. I've experienced it first hand.

Yes, drop carbs. Drop the highly processed carbohydrates, as it says on the conclusions of the study Simon posted: "Results suggest that there is a complex and predominantly unfavorable effect of increased intake of highly processed carbohydrate on lipid profile, which may have implications for metabolic syndrome, diabetes, and coronary heart disease."

The non-highly processed carbs, that is whole vegetables, fruits and grains, you can eat cause it actually lower your LDL, aka bad cholesterol. Part of this effect is due to the soluble fiber this whole food have, you can read it here: Cholesterol-lowering effects of dietary fiber: a meta-analysis

To further drop the cholesterol all you need to do is drop the saturated fats, you can read about it here: Dietary lipids and blood cholesterol: quantitative meta-analysis of metabolic ward studies
Let me copy the very direct and quantifiable conclusions: Conclusions: In typical British diets replacing 60% of saturated fats by other fats and avoiding 60% of dietary cholesterol would reduce blood total cholesterol by about 0.8 mmol/l (that is, by 10-15%), with four fifths of this reduction being in low density lipoprotein cholesterol.