Low free Testo, high

[ironguru]

Hey guys,

I am 55. I have been having low free testosterone values for the last 10 years but now the value is even out of the normal range. They came back with 4.6 (normal range 6.60-30.00 pmol/l).
My SHGB is high around 85 and my total Test is around 600-650. I know that SHGB is binding free Test.

I have a few questions.

- Is low free testosterone as bad as having low total testosterone ?
- Would it be good to go on trt ? I have been thinking about it for a while.

I really have symptoms like a lack of energy, loss of muscle mass and often in a bad mood.

In January I am going to see a doctor but he likes to give Andro Gel wouldn't it be better to the get
injection ?

Thanks guys for your help,

Ro

[kelkel]

Low free T is worse. Total T means ver little as free T is what works for you.
What is your total T level?
Do you have blood work you can post up?
At 55 it's probably time for TRT.
Most guys here prefer injections over gels. That said, many do well on gels and a ton of doc's will start guys on them as it's simply easy to do. Also keep in mind most doc's do not know hormones as they receive little to no training in them in med school
Take a look in the Finding A Doc sticky thread at the top of this forum for a list of blood work you should get.

Also, re your shbg take a look at this recent thread on the same topic:

http://forums.steroid.com/%2A%2Aconf...ow-free-t.html

ps: just saw you've been a member since 08 but only one post. What's up?

[ironguru]

Hi Kelkel

Thank you very much for your help. I appreciate that.

My total T is around 600-650

I have attached my blood work.

Yes I know. Right I have been a member since 08 how time flies I don't like to post but I love to read the interesting posts.

[kelkel]

Well that's a solid Total T level. Increasing your T level with exogenous test will suppress your shbg to a point as any increase in T levels will suppress it, but at the same time it's also shutting down natural production. Thing is you have a good TT level and need to find other ways to suppress shbg. The other thread I referred you to goes a bit more in depth so I won't repeat it here but please look into Vit D, Nettle and possibly even certain prescription meds if you have an astute doctor.

[ironguru]

Vitamin D I am already taking 2500IU should I take more ? I will look into the Nettle and prescription meds.
Thank you for the link to the other thread.

[wellshii]

Hows your diet?
You work out?

Boron has been known to lower SHBG , as well as DHEA. Which in your case is actually on the low side.
How are your Adrenals and stress ? Perhaps supplementing with DHEA might help before jumping on TRT.
You can supplement with it along with zinc,magnesium , boron and vitamin d. Make sure your getting your omegas as well.
Plus a good multi wouldn't hurt. The body is a balance,when one is off ,it tends to be a domino effect.

[Mr.BB]

How's your liver?

SHBG is created in liver, where globulin binds to the sex hormones.

Test total protein and albumin in blood work. Subtracting both will you a value for globulin. Various conditions can lead to albumin decrease, with subsequent globulin increase, which will increase the binding with sex hormones.

It is not an easy and straigth forward diagnosis. I would first look at liver, then thyroid, hepatites, HIV, diabetes, etc

[kelkel]

How's your liver?

SHBG is created in liver, where globulin binds to the sex hormones.

Test total protein and albumin in blood work. Subtracting both will you a value for globulin. Various conditions can lead to albumin decrease, with subsequent globulin increase, which will increase the binding with sex hormones.

It is not an easy and straigth forward diagnosis. I would first look at liver, then thyroid, hepatites, HIV, diabetes, etc

Great points as always BB!

Op, re Vit D you should test it before adjusting dosage. 2500 is really not a high dose. Personally I run 10K per day which keeps me between 70-80 on a scale of 30-100 (from memory)

[Mr.BB]

Personally I run 10K per day

AHA... You have been caught!

All this time dissing cardio and you run 10k per day...Gotcha!

Thats how you maintain you condition, problem solved.

[kelkel]

AHA... You have been caught!

All this time dissing cardio and you run 10k per day...Gotcha!

Thats how you maintain you condition, problem solved.

I'd die if I ran 10 miles. Or bicycled 10 miles. I'll stick to my Harley.

[Youthful55guy]

I've been researching information on treatments for high SHBG for years. Like you, mine is in the 70-80+ range on a regular basis. I had zero luck with all the "natural" methods that are frequently suggested in forums (i.e., zinc, D3, Boron, Stinging Nettle, etc.). For me, they were just a big waste of money, though I still supplement with zinc and D3 for other health benefits.

It's a good suggestion to get you liver checked out, but mine was just fine. I theorize that some of us guys are just genetically programmed to produce higher levels of SHBG than others and that this problem get worse as we age. For me, I noted that ED (the first symptom for me) started to set in around the late 30's and got progressively worse over the years (I'm 59). In the mid 50's I began to feel the typical "Low T" symptoms of low energy, irritability, difficulty focusing, and the ambiguous "brain fog". I decided to ask my doc about TRT and the only lab he ran was TT, and like you, I had excellent TT levels for a guy my age (mid 600's). After much research, I came to the understanding that Free-T was much more important than TT. I had went through several docs, but reasons unknown they refused to test me for free T. I finally went to a Low T clinic, they ran the test and I had Free T of 7.1 pg/ml (low end of the "normal range was 7.2).

I went on TRT with them and many symptoms improved thing almost immediately. Long story short, I ended up going to a TRT specialist and paying big bucks for a couple of years and he got me on a very stable program of 0.2 mL of a 180/20 mg/mL T-cyp/T-prop blend with every 3 day (E3D) dosing. However, I found I had to maintain very high TT levels so that enough would spill over to free T to keep me in the feeling good range.

Recently, I started experimenting with low doses of oral stanozolol (Winstrol) and found it to be EXTREMELY effective at reducing SHBG levels. After over a year of experimentation and countless labs, I have settled on 10 mg (5 mg Am and 5 mg PM) as the optimum dose. That amount lowers my SHBG from 77.5 nmol/L to 27 (normal range 19.3-76.4) and this maintains my Free-T around 21 pg/mL, which is about perfect (normal range 7.2-24). My TRT injection dose or frequency has not changed.

You will find in many forums that stanozolol (Winstrol) gets a bad reputation for causing liver problems, but this is when it is abused by bodybuilders at much higher doses. I have done countless liver labs over the past year while I've been experimenting with stanozolol, and they've never been more than "slightly" elevated and this could be due to a lot of other factors that I did not attempt to control. NAISADS, statins, alcohol, and exercise all impact on liver enzymes and I do all three. My last liver labs were completely normal.

You mentioned running 10 K (about 6 miles) per day. That may have an impact on your Total T level (which is good anyway according to your labs), but I have not run across anything that says exercise increases SGBG. It could be that I've just not seen it, but I don't believe that is the cause of your problems.

Regarding Androgel, I'd personally pass on it and go straight to injections, particularly with high SHBG, you are going to have to take a bath in the stuff to get enough absorbed to saturate 85 nmol/L of SHBG for enough to spill over into Free T. If you are like me, you'll need to maintain TT levels in the 1200 to 1400 ng/dL range to feel "OK". Your only other alternative that I can see is to do like I did an bring it down with stanozolol or some other drug and then use TRT to overcome it's suppressive effect on the natural secretion of testosterone. The only other drug I've heard people have success with is Danazol, but it's more expensive and I've not found a reason to change. The upside to Danazol is that it is still available in the USA (if that's where you live), so if you can get a doc to prescribe it, you can do this legally (though insurance may be a problem). The manufacturers of stanozolol not longer sell it in the USA for marketing (not safety) reasons. So you have to import it illegally. My understanding is that it is still available in Europe.

Hope this helps! I know it's a lot of information to digest all at once. Ask questions if you like.

[Rusty11]

[QUOTE=Youthful55guy;7243513]I've been researching information on treatments for high SHBG for years. Like you, mine is in the 70-80+ range on a regular basis. I had zero luck with all the "natural" methods that are frequently suggested in forums (i.e., zinc, D3, Boron, Stinging Nettle, etc.). For me, they were just a big waste of money, though I still supplement with zinc and D3 for other health benefits./QUOTE]

Hmmm....I just ordered some boron hoping it might decrease my shbg, raise my free T. Oh well, we'll see what happens