Gyno on TRT, how to treat?

Hello,

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ds-inside.html

^ my original post, but decided to make a new one as this one has some urgency.

Been on nebido for a while now failing to to get good levels, have had some gyno development, today i notcied my left nipple was sore while drying off and when i squeezed it go a slight discharge of it. I am 2.5 weeks since my last injection so i'm thinking this is due to high e2 levels and i have a sensitivty to gyno. I think I need an AI to get this under control, doctor or endo dont seem to give two shits. Any guidance on what to take and dosage/frequency?

I'm not sure about nebido but perhaps you could include your entire regimen, meds, dosages, frequencies? Also, BW. If you don't have bloodwork, get it, that's the first step. Basically, give us more background.

I would have prolactin labs run as well as E2. Normal TRT doses of T generally aren't enough to drive E2 so high as to begin lactation. I strongly suspect prolactin is out of balance too. Are you messing with AAS too? Some of them have progestin-like activity and can compound the gyno problem.

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Originally Posted by Quester

I'm not sure about nebido but perhaps you could include your entire regimen, meds, dosages, frequencies? Also, BW. If you don't have bloodwork, get it, that's the first step. Basically, give us more background.

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Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

I would have prolactin labs run as well as E2. Normal TRT doses of T generally aren't enough to drive E2 so high as to begin lactation. I strongly suspect prolactin is out of balance too. Are you messing with AAS too? Some of them have progestin-like activity and can compound the gyno problem.

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Theres a link to my original post at the top, where I have background and some bloods.

Never taken AAS just have secondary hypogonadism, endo started me on retarded frequency of 1g nebido (test undeconate) every 14 weeks with no loading shot but have slowly moved down to every 10 weeks to try and get normal levels.

Gonna try get an emergency appointment at my doctors tomorrow and request full horhome panel. I have been googling and think progesterone may be the problem, so will try get that tested too.

Are you from the uk ?. If so i understand where you are coming from, i went through all tbis with my daft endo she had never even heard of a AI lol. Any way same thing with me at the start, few years back i am also on nebido.
I use adex .25 twice a wk no probs now all good. I actually had a lump under each nipple so i ran nolva 40 mg a day for 2 wks then 20mg a day for 8 wks or so i used it for.
Fixed it and as i said am fine now.
Kel helped me with it all, if you are from here you will not get E2 checked from tbe endo or the doc.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

Are you from the uk ?. If so i understand where you are coming from, i went through all tbis with my daft endo she had never even heard of a AI lol. Any way same thing with me at the start, few years back i am also on nebido.
I use adex .25 twice a wk no probs now all good. I actually had a lump under each nipple so i ran nolva 40 mg a day for 2 wks then 20mg a day for 8 wks or so i used it for.
Fixed it and as i said am fine now.
Kel helped me with it all, if you are from here you will not get E2 checked from tbe endo or the doc.

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How do you monitor your e2 then? Is it purely through what symptoms you get?

Seems like a nightmare

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Originally Posted by hollowedzeus

How do you monitor your e2 then? Is it purely through what symptoms you get?

Seems like a nightmare

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Aye mate, not the right thing to do at all but the nhs will not test e2 for men. The only time i had it done was when i was sent to the breast surgeon after the endo gave me gyno. Even then tbey would not do a sensitive. I tried to explain they need done for men as a normal e2 for woman is no use lol but no.
Any way they got back to me and said yes gyno and that was it i had to fix it myself even then they would not and do not check my e2 with my yearly labs it's to expensive.

No where here to get bloods checked, i know when things are not right but its not a good idea at all.

Edit, this is a good one zeus, the surgeon told me that whey causes gyno lmfao.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

Aye mate, not the right thing to do at all but the nhs will not test e2 for men. The only time i had it done was when i was sent to the breast surgeon after the endo gave me gyno. Even then tbey would not do a sensitive. I tried to explain they need done for men as a normal e2 for woman is no use lol but no.
Any way they got back to me and said yes gyno and that was it i had to fix it myself even then they would not and do not check my e2 with my yearly labs it's to expensive.

No where here to get bloods checked, i know when things are not right but its not a good idea at all.

Edit, this is a good one zeus, the surgeon told me that whey causes gyno lmfao.

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Cant wait to be a part of that derailing train haha. Ill be on nebido within the next couple of months hopefully. But i still suspect the e2 thing will be the same oven though im private. The USA has it right with bloodwork.

Nhs wouldnt even look at me. Im going to be private for the foreseeable future until i cant afford the treatment. Ive got a shit tonne of nolva on hand just incase. Research shit though.

Ahh yes ive read that about whey. Ive also read it causes low testosterone. I think thats where i went wrong.

Really though its scary some of these people gice people hormonal guidence lol


Sorry op didnt mean to highjack your thread

Edit, this is a good one zeus, the surgeon told me that whey causes gyno lmfao.[/QUOTE]

It does - if you use whey too much test :lol:

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Originally Posted by clarky.

Edit, this is a good one zeus, the surgeon told me that whey causes gyno lmfao.

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There is a very common conviction among the health pro the supp powders do contain prohormones or AAS of some sort...

Well, I heat most of my food in plastic so I'm probably going to die from that soon anyway...

Sorry for late reply guys, yeah my e2 isn't monitored by bloods. Endo is ducking useless tbh going to get referred to another hospital. Seeing my GP tomorrow he's pretty decent I'll ask him for e2 test. Gonna order up some adex too but will wait for bloods to confirm what's going on

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Originally Posted by jonny8888

Sorry for late reply guys, yeah my e2 isn't monitored by bloods. Endo is ducking useless tbh going to get referred to another hospital. Seeing my GP tomorrow he's pretty decent I'll ask him for e2 test. Gonna order up some adex too but will wait for bloods to confirm what's going on

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Well good luck, let us know how you get on with the doc.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

Well good luck, let us know how you get on with the doc.

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Cheers

The only issue i can see with adex is my nebido wares off early, so if i take adex through out cycle i'll end up with low e2 towards the end right?

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Originally Posted by jonny8888

Cheers

The only issue i can see with adex is my nebido wares off early, so if i take adex through out cycle i'll end up with low e2 towards the end right?

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You talking about a blast while using nebido for your TRT ,

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Originally Posted by clarky.

You talking about a blast while using nebido for your TRT ,

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Nooo, never used AAS like that. THis is purely TRT. My nebido peaks at the start, and wears off around 6-7 weeks and my endo wont lower frequency any lower than 10 weeks. So if im taking adex when I have no T thats gonna be a problem right?

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Originally Posted by jonny8888

Nooo, never used AAS like that. THis is purely TRT. My nebido peaks at the start, and wears off around 6-7 weeks and my endo wont lower frequency any lower than 10 weeks. So if im taking adex when I have no T thats gonna be a problem right?

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The ester in Nebido is undeconate,the longest ester there is, It slowly climbs then it will slowly come back down. You should never be under your normal range. I say normal lol This is why bloods are so important so you know how much( AI )adex to use.
It sould all be steady never peaks and valleys.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

It sould all be steady never peaks and valleys.

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On a statistical basis yes but there will be always somebody responding different than avg.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

On a statistical basis yes but there will be always somebody responding different than avg.

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Yes I think this is my problem. I don't get on with nebido and can't have Sustanon because I'm allergic to peanuts. My endo doesn't have access to any other esters.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

On a statistical basis yes but there will be always somebody responding different than avg.

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True bizz, but a good endo who knows what they are talking about will have you on the right protocol to minimise this.

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Originally Posted by jonny8888

Yes I think this is my problem. I don't get on with nebido and can't have Sustanon because I'm allergic to peanuts. My endo doesn't have access to any other esters.

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Where are you from jonny ?.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

True bizz, but a good endo who knows what they are talking about will have you on the right protocol to minimise this.

[/B][/B][/B]

Where are you from jonny ?.

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Am based in surrey UK

So I saw my GP today and he gave me the following bloods

Attachment 170477

I'll be getting this done next week, 4 weeks after my nebido shot. He also gave me a second sheet with same tests, which I will do 2 weeks after my next shot (which should be the peak)

He also gave me this print out which was very interesting.

Attachment 170478
Attachment 170479

These are all the testosterone tests I have ever had done. Bare in mind I have never had my nebido tested at peak, only ever atleast six weeks after shot which is usually where it crashes. The spike you see was actually when i was being treated with testogel. So maybe going back to the gels isnt such a terrible idea, but the only thing is the half life. Maybe I can persuade my endo to let me do two doses a day? Would be a bit of pain in the ass though!

Current thoery is nebido isnt delivering even dose over 10 weeks, rather a very high dose at the start, resulting in high e2 and/or prolactic.

He's also referred me to professor david russell-jones at the royal surrey who looks to be a pretty good endo to get a second opionion.

Hmm wonder why the range changed Aug 17. Let us know how you get on.

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Originally Posted by clarky.

True bizz, but a good endo who knows what they are talking about will have you on the right protocol to minimise this.

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My former endo is a professor and researcher at local university and has published several academic papers about nebido, he couldn't help for the simple reason he has to stick with clinically validated protocols and that means a 10-14 weeks interval. If you don't respond well then it's your problem. TU is great but I needed split pins, I've been on TE for over a year by now but I miss the stability of TU, I think I'll jump back on in the near future but I'll be doing it my way next time.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

If you don't respond well then it's your problem. .

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Quite the myopic view by your old endo.

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Quite the myopic view by your old endo.

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Nice use of the word 'myopic'. I like it when the smart guys in the forum use a big vocabulary - helps dispel the "dumb jock" stereotype. And then I can use the words myself, whether I know what they mean or not...

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Quite the myopic view by your old endo.

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I had to google it :( hahaha. Another one kel that has a title but no clue about hormones.

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Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ

Nice use of the word 'myopic'. I like it when the smart guys in the forum use a big vocabulary - helps dispel the "dumb jock" stereotype. And then I can use the words myself, whether I know what they mean or not...

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Originally Posted by clarky.

I had to google it :( hahaha. Another one kel that has a title but no clue about hormones.

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I've got a plethora of them. And that's no canard.

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

My former endo is a professor and researcher at local university and has published several academic papers about nebido, he couldn't help for the simple reason he has to stick with clinically validated protocols and that means a 10-14 weeks interval. If you don't respond well then it's your problem. TU is great but I needed split pins, I've been on TE for over a year by now but I miss the stability of TU, I think I'll jump back on in the near future but I'll be doing it my way next time.

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Do you get prescribed TE?

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Originally Posted by jonny8888

Do you get prescribed TE?

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Nope but I still hold a diagnosis of low T and a prescription for nebido and testogel, anytime I can hit my GP and ask for anything related to my condition that's available here: Test E, -U, -P, sustanon, proviron, and gels.

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Originally Posted by kelkel

Quite the myopic view by your old endo.

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It's not the individual is the system. Even if the issue is clear he can't differ protocol than standard, that's how it rolls. I proposed to do 2x split pins but he replied "it just can't be done".

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Originally Posted by bizzarro

It's not the individual is the system. Even if the issue is clear he can't differ protocol than standard, that's how it rolls. I proposed to do 2x split pins but he replied "it just can't be done".

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That's bad. I guess in their eyes one size fits all.....