problems with nebido?

[Epiphone84]

So, its now 2 weeks after my second shot and i dont feel as good as i did after my first shot. could this be from the lack of the "booster shot" at week 6?
Pre trt my test was 10.8
11 weeks after first injection it was 9

The doctor said that we can try the 6week shot now after my second injection, is that a good idea?

im also more or less on my own when it comes to taking the shots, as i can just go get them at the pharmacy my self (i have like 12 of them) should i inject at 10weeks instead of 12weeks?

[marcus300]

You need to follow the right protocol for Nebido and have the 6 wk booster shot, it also takes a few months for Nebido to full start working and your T levels rise and stay high. Its a long term therapy and doesn't just work after one or two shots it takes time to build up for many but once you dial this therapy in it is IMHO the best trt on the market.

[FakeLove]

There's plenty of us in Europe, who are on Nebido. My doc alone treats roughly 1000 trt patients, most of them with Nebido. So be assured, the sampling we have is large.

Nebido naturally has its market positioning for obvious reasons (long pinning frequency benefits), but it doesn't factually limit the way it can be used. After all, it's just an ester (undecanoate). Especially when the supplement is old (first undecanoate studies were done in 1998), it's common that over the years how to use it changes.

That's because in today's modern medicine treatments individual metabolism plays a major role in dosing. It has basically changed how the meds are dosed and is already a very common practice in rare diseases like hemophilia etc. Those meds are almost never dosed based on the manufacturer's protocol, but based on patients individual metabolism. If one understands even the basics of pharmacokinetics, it's also a very logical approach. And for these reasons the med companies are developing those genetical tests - to define your personal response and metabolism for different medicines beforehand so you wouldn't have to trial and error.

And it is for that reason there's now (luckily) docs who have understood this also in trt context, and been starting to treat patients with modified Nebido protocols. That means 1ml shots every 14-20 days, and the frequency is based on trough values and symptoms. Frequency typically also expands over time as the accumulation happens, but right from the beginning the benefit of this is that patient doesn't experience low range levels anymore, while staying high in the range at peak.

And why is this approach developed in the first place? We have learned, that for significant amount of patients, Nebido just is metabolised too fast and the accumulation doesn't happen even closely the manufacturer has designed it to happen.

I personally was one of the first ones to try, and there's no turning back now, after three years of doing it. The overall results have been very good too. Not a single infection and much improved treatment results.

Here's what typically happens for these patients:

- 1 week after a 4ml Nebido shot ("steady state"): above the range T levels
- 8-11 weeks after a 4ml Nebido shot ("steady state"): low range or below range T levels
- results: low T symptoms beyond 6 to 8 weeks after the shot, many times high hematocrit

- 3 days after a 1ml shot: high range T levels
- 14-20 days after a 1ml shot: mid range T levels
- results: in range hematocrit, no low T symptoms

If this would be the case, the decision really is a no brainer. If 4ml happens to work, like for marcus300, then naturally that's the way to go. So I fully agree with marcus300, also in my opinion it's the best trt option, but unfortunately with a standard protocol won't work for all (and that's a fact).

Since you're in the beginning of your protocol and don't really know how it will work for you, you have three options:

1. stick with the current protocol (and have that booster shot) and go through the valleys it gives you, and see after a year if it results with symptoms free trough values
2. pin 1ml at a time for at least 3 months, reach steady state fast, and after that try with 4ml shots
3. the above, but stick with 1ml or go for example to 2ml shots

[Epiphone84]

Thanks for the reply. Im gonna have the "booster shot" in just a few days (6 weeks after my second injection) So im gonna stick with 10 weeks injections after that (with bloodwork in week 9 to see)

[marcus300]

Thanks for the reply. Im gonna have the "booster shot" in just a few days (6 weeks after my second injection) So im gonna stick with 10 weeks injections after that (with bloodwork in week 9 to see)

It can take up to 15-18 months to fully dial in some cases but the longer your on this the better it gets, I've been on this over 10 years and the dips get higher and the highs get higher

Check out this chart on Nebido showing the slow build up of T levels, 1st chart is on the 1st injection and 2nd chart is 13th injection at 12 wk intervals. Now imagine this over my time period of time ive been on it and the smoothing effect Nebido as on the peaks and low range. You can see how someone who could possibly metabolizes T slowly the effect it would have on the balance of the two points. I can see from this that over time you could possibly lengthen the injection protocol due to rising T levels to keep them under control but what a remarkable compound over a long term period. I'd like to see in comparison TE at the same length with injections of every week, that would be interesting data

[Epiphone84]

So, a update of my experience on Nebido so far:

T before starting TRT: 10.8

1. injection: Felt great after a couple of weeks
2. injection: Felt avarage (injection at 12 weeks)
3. injection: felt nothing (this was my "6 week" booster)
4. injection: felt nothing (injection at 10 weeks)

Currently im waiting for my 5th shot in a few days, and i have been feeling like utter shit the past month. Had my T tested at 8 weeks after the last shot, T came back at 6, and that is the lowest i have ever tested.
Is this normal for Nebido to work like this?
My GP is gonna send some question to a specialist, but i sure hope it gets better soon, cause im not realy able to do anything at the moment..

edit: This is the last blood test i took:
Testosteron: 6.15 (range: 6.73-31.90)
SHGB: 15 (range: 13-72)
DHEAS: 11.0 (range: 3.1-10.7)
Estrogen: 0.05 (range 0.00-0.00) (have no idea what to make of that number.. its in nmol/L)