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Thread: Cortisol and DHEA-Sulfate

  1. #1
    jwh7699 is offline Member
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    Cortisol and DHEA-Sulfate

    I've been having a problem with Cortisol for a few years now. I did a 4x Saliva Test in 2013 and 2016. Both came back as Low, High, High, High. (I don't have the exact numbers, previous laptop died)

    I just had my DHEA-S level checked 2 days ago.

    DHEA-SULFATE: 392.3 102.6-416.3 ug/dL

    I currently don't take DHEA only Pregnenolone, 50mg at bed time.

    My Cortisol levels affect my energy level. I have a hard time staying asleep and I am almost always groggy in the Morning. I am more awake at 10pm than I am at 10am.

    I take an Adrenal Support Supplement (Ashwagandha, Amia Berry, Ginger Root, Asian Ginseng, Black Pepper Fruit, Astragulas, Astaxanthin) Twice a Day. This helps with Brain Fog, but not Energy.

    I've read that taking DHEA can help lower Cortisol levels, True?

    My Natural DHEA level is fairly high, not sure if raising it higher with supplementation is a good idea or not?

    Is there a better supplement to take to lower Cortisol levels?

    If I can lower my evening and night time Cortisol levels I'm hoping the extra Cortisol will carry over until the morning, helping me wake up easier.
    Last edited by jwh7699; 11-10-2017 at 07:44 PM.

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    I'm not addressing your question about supplements, but more generally addressing what you say is bothering you since you haven't gotten any replies.

    If you get up and get some early morning sunlight in your eyes (no window glass, eyeglasses or contact lenses in between you and the sun), it helps to regulate your morning cortisol (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3686562/). Cortisol is on a diurnal rhythm - it's supposed to be higher in the morning, but not too high, and then lower at night and it is controlled by the light coming into your eye because this is how humans evolved. Having it be out of whack as you describe is due to the light signals your brain is getting - your circadian rhythm is off, probably because you don't get natural sunlight in the morning, which helps our brains to know what time it is, and then you probably add fake light at night, which again, gives your brain the wrong impression of what time of day it is. And the result is that you feel awake at night and tired in the morning.

    I don't know of any pills you can take to sort this out, but if you get some sunlight in your eyes in the morning, and then try and limit screens at night, your body will start to sort itself out properly. Get some blue blocking glasses to wear for a couple of hours before bedtime if you can't give up your screens completely.

    Living like this is deterimental to almost all the systems of the body, but especially the hormones. I tell you this because I used to be like this myself, and I've completely fixed the problem, and now I sleep like a baby and have great energy all day long.

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    Do you work rotating shifts?
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    jwh7699 is offline Member
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    Thank you for the info!! I will definitely give that a try. I have a light filter on my laptop and my cell phone, but I have not tried the direct Sunlight approach in the Morning.

    Do you continue to get direct sunlight in the Morning after you corrected the problem?

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    Nope, no rotating shifts. I have had a good amount of stress at times. I live in Florida, so I should be getting enough Natural Sunlight, but I have tinted car windows and wear sunglasses a lot.

    But as my Vitamin D levels showed, just because I live in the Sunshine state, it doesn't guarantee I'm getting enough.

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    Very true re Vit D. I run 10K IU's p/d and my most recent blood work (yesterday actually) came in at 86 on the normal scale of 30-100.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    I'm not addressing your question about supplements, but more generally addressing what you say is bothering you since you haven't gotten any replies.

    If you get up and get some early morning sunlight in your eyes (no window glass, eyeglasses or contact lenses in between you and the sun), it helps to regulate your morning cortisol (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3686562/). Cortisol is on a diurnal rhythm - it's supposed to be higher in the morning, but not too high, and then lower at night and it is controlled by the light coming into your eye because this is how humans evolved. Having it be out of whack as you describe is due to the light signals your brain is getting - your circadian rhythm is off, probably because you don't get natural sunlight in the morning, which helps our brains to know what time it is, and then you probably add fake light at night, which again, gives your brain the wrong impression of what time of day it is. And the result is that you feel awake at night and tired in the morning.

    I don't know of any pills you can take to sort this out, but if you get some sunlight in your eyes in the morning, and then try and limit screens at night, your body will start to sort itself out properly. Get some blue blocking glasses to wear for a couple of hours before bedtime if you can't give up your screens completely.

    Living like this is deterimental to almost all the systems of the body, but especially the hormones. I tell you this because I used to be like this myself, and I've completely fixed the problem, and now I sleep like a baby and have great energy all day long.
    Sorry @OP for hijacking thread - TAB are you able to figure out why my cortisol levels tank at bottom of range during summer then resume normal functioning when the heat ceases?

    Since my teens and on I've been feeling dog fatigued for the whole of the summer season only to feel better when fall approaches. Not that I can say there is a direct correlation, but the anomaly with cortisol levels pattern it's remarkable... it peaks at top of range in full winter.
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    Bizzarro - Have you always lived in the same part of the country? Do you sweat normally? Are you fair skinned?

    Do you work the same job through out the year or do something different during the Summer?

    Is there something you do in the Summer that you don't do the rest of year, like Softball, Soccer or some other outdoor activity?

    Is it all 4 Cortisol Markers that go down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwh7699 View Post
    Bizzarro - Have you always lived in the same part of the country? Do you sweat normally? Are you fair skinned?

    Do you work the same job through out the year or do something different during the Summer?

    Is there something you do in the Summer that you don't do the rest of year, like Softball, Soccer or some other outdoor activity?

    Is it all 4 Cortisol Markers that go down?
    Yeah Southern Italy and summer it's damn harsh here. I do sweat but not enough to prevent overheating, baseline body temp is at 99F normally and it only takes minor activity to get fever-ish.

    I'm mediterannean looking but skin is rather light yes I don't tan only get sunburn.

    I don't do anything different in Summer, only looked into 8am serum cortisol so far.

    I'm just not suited for the environment I live in I guess.

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    The 4 x Saliva Cortisol test is a good one to get done. I kind of expected your Cortisol levels to increase given the changes you experience in the Summer. Usually cortisol increases the more Stress we put on the body.

    It would be a good idea to get the Saliva test done because in the Summer you might be like me Low, High, High, High.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Yeah Southern Italy and summer it's damn harsh here. I do sweat but not enough to prevent overheating, baseline body temp is at 99F normally and it only takes minor activity to get fever-ish.

    I'm mediterannean looking but skin is rather light yes I don't tan only get sunburn.

    I don't do anything different in Summer, only looked into 8am serum cortisol so far.

    I'm just not suited for the environment I live in I guess.
    Did your family emigrate from somewhere else? Just curious.

    My family is from pretty close to you, and my skin is what they typically call light/medium, meaning I am approximately the last in the light category to the first in the middle category, and you wouldn't think I would have any issues with the sun. I spent most of my youth being softly brown from spending a lot of time outdoors.

    But later I managed to give myself a sun allergy because I wasn't getting enough light. I had to wear sunscreen like mad as I got little itchy bumps after a very short while in the sun. I mentioned to my doctor in Brussels and he looked at me like I was crazy, because people w my mediterranean complexion don't have sun allergies.

    A neuro surgeon friend suggested that I was not making enough alpha MSH due to not having enough sun exposure, and so I did an experiment one year, where I injected some melanotan for two weeks and then hit a tanning booth, and I browned up beautifully.

    The next summer I did some reading about UV light and the skin surface and I learned that cooler skin absorbs more light, and so I would go out into the sunlight in the middle of the day and spritz my skin with cool water. Over that summer I totally tanned naturally and the sunlight regulated my cortisol, which has previously been very low. If I were you, I would get small amounts of sunlight (start at a few minutes a day if need be) on your cool skin and build up your tolerance. Do it in the winter (I always thought that was pointless, but cool skin really does absorb more photons).

    Definitely try to get light into your eyes as close to sunrise as possible, and as close to sunset as possible, and then start building up your minutes in the middle of the day until you start to tan. I've seen completely white people from Scotland succeed doing it this way.
    Last edited by thisAngelBites; 11-18-2017 at 02:38 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    Did your family emigrate from somewhere else? Just curious.

    My family is from pretty close to you, and my skin is what they typically call light/medium, meaning I am approximately the last in the light category to the first in the middle category, and you wouldn't think I would have any issues with the sun. I spent most of my youth being softly brown from spending a lot of time outdoors.

    But later I managed to give myself a sun allergy because I wasn't getting enough light. I had to wear sunscreen like mad as I got little itchy bumps after a very short while in the sun. I mentioned to my doctor in Brussels and he looked at me like I was crazy, because people w my mediterranean complexion don't have sun allergies.

    A neuro surgeon friend suggested that I was not making enough alpha MSH due to not having enough sun exposure, and so I did an experiment one year, where I injected some melanotan for two weeks and then hit a tanning booth, and I browned up beautifully.

    The next summer I did some reading about UV light and the skin surface and I learned that cooler skin absorbs more light, and so I would go out into the sunlight in the middle of the day and spritz my skin with cool water. Over that summer I totally tanned naturally and the sunlight regulated my cortisol, which has previously been very low. If I were you, I would get small amounts of sunlight (start at a few minutes a day if need be) on your cool skin and build up your tolerance. Do it in the winter (I always thought that was pointless, but cool skin really does absorb more photons).

    Definitely try to get light into your eyes as close to sunrise as possible, and as close to sunset as possible, and then start building up your minutes in the middle of the day until you start to tan. I've seen completely white people from Scotland succeed doing it this way.
    No recent emigration history but being a southern Italian means lot of admixture from abroad, especially the med basin. You take a walk on the street and can meet any phenotype you can think of, that explains the mixed traits some display, ie. light skin but dark hair and eyes, yet many of my relatives (including myself) were born with much lighter features, only to darken later during childhood.

    I can expose face and extremities to the Sun no prob even in summer, skin gets redder but not irritated, full body exposure is a big no-no but I don't care about tanning.

    It sounds to me that your low cortisol was due to disrupted circadian patterns, the hypothalamus regulates those and does so via sensory information from the optic nerve. I can maintain normal sleep/wake patterns but I do have many issues with the hypothalamus other than cortisol - idiopathic low T, idiopathic high prolactin, issues with body temp regulation, and pretty much every function the hypothalamus is concerned with.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    Sorry @OP for hijacking thread - TAB are you able to figure out why my cortisol levels tank at bottom of range during summer then resume normal functioning when the heat ceases?

    Since my teens and on I've been feeling dog fatigued for the whole of the summer season only to feel better when fall approaches. Not that I can say there is a direct correlation, but the anomaly with cortisol levels pattern it's remarkable... it peaks at top of range in full winter.
    Your mind is why biz.
    You hate the heat and summer. Cortisol is a direct release from stress. I have no doubts on how our positive/negative thinking effects cortisol, adrenaline, histamine, and the basic function of our entire endocrine system and chemical balance.

    I watched an insane person go from completely idle minded to totally covered in hives and eyes blood red in a matter of maybe five seconds. Our thoughts and emotions can indeed be affected by our chemical balance but in most cases its completely the other way around.

    A light triggered response such as being in a bad mood can cause physical change.

    A heavy trigger (such as the one in the insane person) can cause nearly anything even loss of conciousness.

    Just my opinion. Not bothering to post studies.
    I believe most mental illnesses are treated in a completely ass backwards manner. They try to regulate chemicals that are only off because of a mental response that could only be treated with external psycho therapy.
    Last edited by Obs; 11-18-2017 at 03:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Your mind is why biz.
    You hate the heat and summer. Cortisol is a direct release from stress. I have no doubts on how our positive/negative thinking effects cortisol, adrenaline, histamine, and the basic function of our entire endocrine system and chemical balance.

    I watched an insane person go from completely idle minded to totally covered in hives and eyes blood red in a matter of maybe five seconds. Our thoughts and emotions can indeed be affected by our chemical balance but in most cases its completely the other way around.

    A light triggered response such as being in a bad mood can cause physical change.

    A heavy trigger (such as the one in the insane person) can cause nearly anything even loss of conciousness.

    Just my opinion. Not bothering to post studies.
    I believe most mental illnesses are treated in a completely ass backwards manner. They try to regulate chemicals that are only off because of a mental response that could only be treated with external psycho therapy.
    You won't believe what I turn into if I feel anyhow threatened so I understand your point of view yet my cortisol is actually very low in summer, despite higher psychological stress.

    Temps just dropped to about 50 F and it's just so soothing, going out and taking a chilly breeze in my face makes me feel at home.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bizzarro View Post
    You won't believe what I turn into if I feel anyhow threatened so I understand your point of view yet my cortisol is actually very low in summer, despite higher psychological stress.

    Temps just dropped to about 50 F and it's just so soothing, going out and taking a chilly breeze in my face makes me feel at home.
    Thats great man. I hope you find a balance. I am just the opposite. Fall and winter depress me. I get grouchy as can be and have issues with my RA that I believe are more because of my mood than anything. I badly lose motivation by feb/march.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thisAngelBites View Post
    Did your family emigrate from somewhere else? Just curious.

    My family is from pretty close to you, and my skin is what they typically call light/medium, meaning I am approximately the last in the light category to the first in the middle category, and you wouldn't think I would have any issues with the sun. I spent most of my youth being softly brown from spending a lot of time outdoors.

    But later I managed to give myself a sun allergy because I wasn't getting enough light. I had to wear sunscreen like mad as I got little itchy bumps after a very short while in the sun. I mentioned to my doctor in Brussels and he looked at me like I was crazy, because people w my mediterranean complexion don't have sun allergies.

    A neuro surgeon friend suggested that I was not making enough alpha MSH due to not having enough sun exposure, and so I did an experiment one year, where I injected some melanotan for two weeks and then hit a tanning booth, and I browned up beautifully.

    The next summer I did some reading about UV light and the skin surface and I learned that cooler skin absorbs more light, and so I would go out into the sunlight in the middle of the day and spritz my skin with cool water. Over that summer I totally tanned naturally and the sunlight regulated my cortisol, which has previously been very low. If I were you, I would get small amounts of sunlight (start at a few minutes a day if need be) on your cool skin and build up your tolerance. Do it in the winter (I always thought that was pointless, but cool skin really does absorb more photons).

    Definitely try to get light into your eyes as close to sunrise as possible, and as close to sunset as possible, and then start building up your minutes in the middle of the day until you start to tan. I've seen completely white people from Scotland succeed doing it this way.

    Question regarding getting light into the eyes. If sunrise is at 5am and I don't have to be up until 7am. Is it ok to sit outside at 5am for 20 minutes and then go back to sleep, to raise Cortisol? Are you trying to get light at sunset to increase the Cortisol or to show your brain that it is time to make less Cortisol?

    Thanks!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwh7699 View Post
    I've been having a problem with Cortisol for a few years now. I did a 4x Saliva Test in 2013 and 2016. Both came back as Low, High, High, High. (I don't have the exact numbers, previous laptop died)

    I just had my DHEA-S level checked 2 days ago.

    DHEA-SULFATE: 392.3 102.6-416.3 ug/dL

    I currently don't take DHEA only Pregnenolone, 50mg at bed time.

    My Cortisol levels affect my energy level. I have a hard time staying asleep and I am almost always groggy in the Morning. I am more awake at 10pm than I am at 10am.

    I take an Adrenal Support Supplement (Ashwagandha, Amia Berry, Ginger Root, Asian Ginseng, Black Pepper Fruit, Astragulas, Astaxanthin) Twice a Day. This helps with Brain Fog, but not Energy.

    I've read that taking DHEA can help lower Cortisol levels, True?

    My Natural DHEA level is fairly high, not sure if raising it higher with supplementation is a good idea or not?

    Is there a better supplement to take to lower Cortisol levels?

    If I can lower my evening and night time Cortisol levels I'm hoping the extra Cortisol will carry over until the morning, helping me wake up easier.
    Check yourself for adrenal fatigue syndrome. It is easy.
    Look into it.

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