My Protocol & New Labs

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05-14-2018, 09:41 PM
Youthful55guy

My Protocol & New Labs
I just got new lab results today, so I thought I'd share them as well as my protocol and how I will interpret and use the labs.

My Protocol (Including TRT Related Supplements)
- 0.25 mL E3D of a blended T that delivers 40.9mg T-cyp and 4.6mg T-prop. When you do the math and take into account that T-prop delivers more T per mg than T-cyp, my effective dose is about the same as 46mg of T-cyp E3D.
- 75 IU of HCG 2X per day (150 IU/day total). I mix it with my GH releasing peptides to minimize the number of injections.
- 5 drops per day of Anastrozole using the Eye Dropper method, which is the equivalent of 0.5mg/week. HOWEVER, I plan to drop this down (see below).
- 2.5mg Winstol 2X per day for SHBG control.
- 30mg 2X per day Armour Thyroid, but I'm going to decrease this to 45mg (see below).
- 200/100 mcg IPA/CJC-1295 2X per day.
- 50mg zinc picolinate 2X per day balanced with 2mg copper 2X per day
- 4000 IU Vitamin D3 per day
- 25mg DHEA per day
- 50mg pregnenolone per day
- 3mg Boron 2X per day
- Saw palmetto and Pygeum 3X per day. Total daily dose of standardized Saw Extract = 848mg Fatty Acid sterols. Total daily dose of standardized Pygeum = 53mg Phytosterols.
Lab Results
- IGF-1 = 157 ng/mL (Range 50-194)
- Total T = 862 ng/dL (Range 264-916)
- Free T = 25.7 pg/mL (Range 6.6-18.1) High
- SHBG = 34.7 nmol/L (Range 19.3-76.4)
- DHT = 109 ng/dL (Range 30-85) High
- Estradiol, Sensitive (LC/MS/MS) = 22.5 pg/mL (Range 8.0-35.0)
- Prolactin = 8.8 mg/mL (Range 4.0-15.2)
- TSH = 2.97 micro IU/mL (Range 0.45-4.50)
- T4 (Free) = 1.16 ng/dL (Range 0.82-1.77)
- T3 (Free) = 3.2pg/mL (Range 2.0-4.4)
Interpretation of Results
- SHBG is almost exactly where I want it to be. It's been at about this same level for about 6 months (3 labs) since I dropped my Winstrol dose down from 10mg per day to 5 mg per day about 8 months ago. I plan to maintain this dose indefinitely.
- Total T is a bit high and Free T is high. My goal is to maintain Free T in the range of 21-22, which is about the 75th percentile for men age 25-35. My plan is to drop my T dose slightly, but I haven't decided on the exact amount. Since I'm not dangerously high and my hemoglobin and E are under control, I think I'll take my time. I'm thinking of dropping down to 0.22 mL of my blended T E3D, which is about equivalent to 42 mg of T-cyp E3D.
- DHT is still high, though it continues to come down in a dose-response fashion for 3 tests in a row over the last 6 months since I started increasing my Saw/Pygeum dose. I plan to increase the dose once again and retest in about 3 months. This combined with a lower T dose, should bring it close to the upper end of the range. I'm also seriously thinking of asking my doc for a script to the lowest possible dose of finasteride and then cut that in half. I need to do more research on the side-effects first.
- I got my IGF-1 exactly at the 75th percentile. This is up from about 105 (40th percentile of the normal range) about a year ago. I started peptides about 5 months ago and saw my IGF-1 increase to 121. I raised the dose to the current level about 3 months ago and again saw an increase in IFG-1 to the current 157. I haven't decided if I'll try increasing it again, I need to look at the price and decide if I really need it.
- The E test confirms that my anastrozole dose should be decreased slightly to bring E into the 25-30 pg/mL range. This will hopefully improve erection quality and increase endogenous GH production. I decreased the dose to 4 drops per day today. I'll retest in about 3 months.
- The Thyroid tests all indicate that I can decrease the Armour dose further from the current 60 mg/day to 45 mg/day. This is down from 90 mg/day about a year ago. I'm doing this because there's good evidence that too much thyroid hormone can increase SHBG, which I do not want. My goal is a very slow continuous decrease to 30 mg per day and that's where I'll probably keep it.
05-16-2018, 09:05 PM
Scrumhalf

More great info, Youthful. Thanks for the continued perspective. Here's a related / unrelated question that isn't meant to hijack:

What is your diet?

You've got your TRT really dialed in and I'd be curious to know your macros and whether you eat to bulk / cut / athletic performance, etc. I'm about 6 weeks into my TRT and would appreciate your feedback here.
05-17-2018, 09:09 AM
Youthful55guy

Thanks for asking. I have no problem discussing other aspects of my life besides TRT. Keep in mind that I'm a 60 year old guy just trying to feel "normal" again.

I do exercise 5-6 times per week for an hour alternating weights and cardio. I've been doing this since 1/1/2000. It's a millennium resolution that actually stuck. I've regularly gained a modest 0.75 pound of muscle per year over that time period by doing this. However, since starting TRT 6 years ago my muscle gains have increased to about a pound per year. Keep in mind too that the average guy my age loses a pound of muscle per year, so I'm doing twice as good as my peers. So, over time, I have put on substantial muscle for an old guy.

My biggest nemesis is nutrition. I tend to go in cycles with good and bad nutrition. This means that fat goes up and down to hide or reveal my muscle. I took a new job about 3 years ago and that put my nutrition into a tailspin for about 1.5 years and I gained about 25 pounds of fat (not good). About a year ago, I decided not to be fat anymore and made some minor changes to my eating habits. Mainly not eating high carb junk food in front of the Netflix at night. I've substituted this with a big bowl of low fat cottage cheese. Over the past year, this minor change in nutrition has equated to a 13 pound loss of fat and my muscle gain rate has actually increased too. I'm up about 3 pounds, but I've also been more diligent about not blowing off workouts and making them count better.

I still have about 12 pounds to go to get to my maintenance goal of about 12-13% BF.

I hear guys on this and other forums hoping that TRT will magically transform them into a sports model physique, but in reality all TRT does when it is administered properly is help you change your mindset to allow you to put in the work to look like whatever you want to look. There's no silver bullet.

And that's the way Youthful55Guy Cs it!
05-17-2018, 09:23 AM
bkb333

Your numbers are awesome! I (26 years old) would love to get to something similar.
05-17-2018, 10:49 AM
Couchlockd

bump for follow
05-17-2018, 02:24 PM
Youthful55guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkb333

Your numbers are awesome! I (26 years old) would love to get to something similar.

It comes with 6+ years of fine tuning my protocol and more labs than I can count. Well, actually I could as I keep a spreadsheet of all my labs. I keep coming back to my soap box of preaching that guys need to take control of their labs and purchase them themselves if their doc will not order the right ones or is stingy with labs.

I am concerned with my DHT levels. I have not been successful in getting them under control with supplements. I know lowering my T dose will help, but I doubt it will be enough to bring the levels with range. This weekend, I plan on ordering some Finasteride and starting it at VERY low doses and see how that affects my future labs. If I like what I see, I'm sure I can get my doc to write a script for it at my annual check up in october. I've turned her down several times but now I'm ready to perhaps add it to my protocol.
05-17-2018, 09:18 PM
Scrumhalf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

Thanks for asking. I have no problem discussing other aspects of my life besides TRT. Keep in mind that I'm a 60 year old guy just trying to feel "normal" again.

I do exercise 5-6 times per week for an hour alternating weights and cardio. I've been doing this since 1/1/2000. It's a millennium resolution that actually stuck. I've regularly gained a modest 0.75 pound of muscle per year over that time period by doing this. However, since starting TRT 6 years ago my muscle gains have increased to about a pound per year. Keep in mind too that the average guy my age loses a pound of muscle per year, so I'm doing twice as good as my peers. So, over time, I have put on substantial muscle for an old guy.

My biggest nemesis is nutrition. I tend to go in cycles with good and bad nutrition. This means that fat goes up and down to hide or reveal my muscle. I took a new job about 3 years ago and that put my nutrition into a tailspin for about 1.5 years and I gained about 25 pounds of fat (not good). About a year ago, I decided not to be fat anymore and made some minor changes to my eating habits. Mainly not eating high carb junk food in front of the Netflix at night. I've substituted this with a big bowl of low fat cottage cheese. Over the past year, this minor change in nutrition has equated to a 13 pound loss of fat and my muscle gain rate has actually increased too. I'm up about 3 pounds, but I've also been more diligent about not blowing off workouts and making them count better.

I still have about 12 pounds to go to get to my maintenance goal of about 12-13% BF.

I hear guys on this and other forums hoping that TRT will magically transform them into a sports model physique, but in reality all TRT does when it is administered properly is help you change your mindset to allow you to put in the work to look like whatever you want to look. There's no silver bullet.

And that's the way Youthful55Guy Cs it!

Great stuff, thanks Youthful!

I'm sure we can all relate to the cycle of good / bad nutrition, and I completely agree. My achilles heel is the holiday season because it seems like there is never ending availability of not-broccoli, not-plain oatmeal, not-boiled chicken, etc. I'm also on board with your cottage cheese substitution as it's usually the simple changes that are effective and sustainable.

Here's the next question: Supplementation beyond standard TRT

What would you recommend as ancillary supplements, controlled drugs, etc. to incorporate into TRT? I think I remember reading that you have never ran a typical AAS cycle but have experience with other anabolics (Winstrol I believe). I would be interested to know the effective / ineffective options out there and what things to incorporate or avoid. I havent yet had this conversation with my doctor and would much appreciate your feedback again.
05-18-2018, 09:19 AM
Youthful55guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

Great stuff, thanks Youthful!

I'm sure we can all relate to the cycle of good / bad nutrition, and I completely agree. My achilles heel is the holiday season because it seems like there is never ending availability of not-broccoli, not-plain oatmeal, not-boiled chicken, etc. I'm also on board with your cottage cheese substitution as it's usually the simple changes that are effective and sustainable.

Here's the next question: Supplementation beyond standard TRT

What would you recommend as ancillary supplements, controlled drugs, etc. to incorporate into TRT? I think I remember reading that you have never ran a typical AAS cycle but have experience with other anabolics (Winstrol I believe). I would be interested to know the effective / ineffective options out there and what things to incorporate or avoid. I havent yet had this conversation with my doctor and would much appreciate your feedback again.

I take numerous supplements, most are oriented toward general health, particularly cancer risk reduction and brain health. The following are my hormone-related supplements, which are posted in the original post above:
50mg zinc picolinate 2X per day balanced with 2mg copper 2X per day
4000 IU Vitamin D3 per day
25mg DHEA per day
50mg pregnenolone per day
3mg Boron 2X per day
Saw palmetto and Pygeum 3X per day. Total daily dose of standardized Saw Extract = 848mg Fatty Acid sterols. Total daily dose of standardized Pygeum = 53mg Phytosterols.

I don't think I've ever stated that I have never used ancillary AAS for non-medical purposes. I just don't recommend it, nor do I currently use them for that purpose, not do I give advice on them. Just to completely above board on this topic, I have done a few mini-cycles (e.g. 1 month) of Anavar at doses higher than necessary to suppress SHBG. To be honest, I simply love the pump it gives my muscles in the gym. However, I know that in the long run it's not a good idea for a healthy lifestyle (my primary goal), so I confine my current use of AAS to what medically need to control my very high SHBG levels.

As I discussed in the original post in this string, my current protocol calls for indefinite use of 2.5mg Winstol (stanozolole) 2X per day for SHBG control. I find that this very low level of Winstrol keeps my SHBG at about perfect levels and helps me to reduce the amount of T I need to use to keep me in range. I've also tried Anavar for this same purpose, but I find I need a slightly higher dose of 5mg 2X per day for the same SHBG lowering effect. Given that Anavar is more than quadruple the price of Winstrol and half as effective, I've settled on Winstrol as my drug of choice to treat my high SHBG.
05-22-2018, 10:34 AM
Quester

Congratulations on mastering the SHBG and on the patience and prudence of method by which you did it and got your whole regimen dialed-in.

IS there a connection between low SHBG and high levels of DHT? I was thinking of adding Anavar, to lower SHBG, but I don't want my DHT to get to high.
05-22-2018, 01:53 PM
Youthful55guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quester

Congratulations on mastering the SHBG and on the patience and prudence of method by which you did it and got your whole regimen dialed-in.

IS there a connection between low SHBG and high levels of DHT? I was thinking of adding Anavar, to lower SHBG, but I don't want my DHT to get to high.

That is something I am currently investigating. Not whether my use of Winstrol or Anavar increase my DHT, but whether there is cross-reactivity in the labs. That is, picking it up as DHT.

I monitored my DHT in the early years of my protocol before I used any AAS to control SHBG and my DHT was on the high side, but not out of range. I would have suspected that driving down SHBG would have reduced DHT (as more gets metabolized), but that's not the case. I have been consistently out of range.

Ever increasing doses of Saw palmetto and Pygeum have helped bring it down slightly, but not within range and it's costing me a small fortune. I just ordered some finasteride, I'm going to start out at a very small dose (0.5mg/day) and go from there. Once I nail down a dose and decide if I'm going to continue, I'll get a doc to prescribe it for me. She's offered several times, but I've always turned it down, so I'm sure getting a script won't be a problem.
05-24-2018, 04:43 PM
Youthful55guy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

That is something I am currently investigating. Not whether my use of Winstrol or Anavar increase my DHT, but whether there is cross-reactivity in the labs. That is, picking it up as DHT.

I monitored my DHT in the early years of my protocol before I used any AAS to control SHBG and my DHT was on the high side, but not out of range. I would have suspected that driving down SHBG would have reduced DHT (as more gets metabolized), but that's not the case. I have been consistently out of range.

Ever increasing doses of Saw palmetto and Pygeum have helped bring it down slightly, but not within range and it's costing me a small fortune. I just ordered some finasteride, I'm going to start out at a very small dose (0.5mg/day) and go from there. Once I nail down a dose and decide if I'm going to continue, I'll get a doc to prescribe it for me. She's offered several times, but I've always turned it down, so I'm sure getting a script won't be a problem.

UPDATE: I just remembered that the reason I've been turning down the Finasteride prescription from my doc is not only the fear of the possibility of post-finasteride syndrome (if it even exists), but also because it's on the forbidden drug list for blood donations. This throws a wrench into my plans, since I donate regularly every 12-14 weeks to keep my hemoglobin in a good range.

I did a little research and found that studies in pregnant rats given oral doses of finasteride (3/100 the recommended human dose) showed abnormalities in the reproductive organs of their male offspring. I'd hate to be responsible for screwing up a kids genitals by taking the drug and donating.

The withdrawal period for donation is 1 month, so it does not make a lot of sense to be going on the drug for 8 weeks and off for 4 weeks in order to donate blood. The goal of TRT are to achieve steady hormone levels and it seems to me that going on and off of finasteride would impact that.

So, scratch the idea. The finasteride I ordered didn't cost that much, so I'll just shove it into the back of my drug cabinet, never to be used.