I've hit the doctor lottery

**geezuschrist** · 06-27-2018, 08:02 PM

I was about to drop my doc and do self prescribed trt so I got bloodwork done on a blast. Sat down shot the shit a little bit and they say alright so your on a blast and chuckled. Apparently they oversee many bodybuilders and we talked about multiple steroids . They even suggested deca for my joints!

**Chrisp83TRT** · 06-27-2018, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by geezuschrist

I was about to drop my doc and do self prescribed trt so I got bloodwork done on a blast. Sat down shot the shit a little bit and they say alright so your on a blast and chuckled. Apparently they oversee many bodybuilders and we talked about multiple steroids. They even suggested deca for my joints!

Rare you have and found a doctor that is willing to work with you. That’s awesome

**wellshii** · 06-27-2018, 11:20 PM

Money talks .
Awesome.
Referral?lol

**cousinmuscles** · 06-28-2018, 05:24 AM

Tht is unique but he may be able to help you manage side effects. How do you explain to a normal doc you'd like to test your heart, MRI and function and all that. Or when the market is low on HCG or you can't find pharma cabergoline from your trusted source. Good job but don't make him lose his license lol!

**geezuschrist** · 06-28-2018, 07:31 AM

They rang off a couple guys named they worked with before, I was stunned. Top guys all of you would know. Like mouth dropped when I heard this

**sleepstalker** · 07-01-2018, 12:39 PM

I am seriously considering TRT therapy. I have 99% of the symptoms. But...question. So...are pretty much all the derivative dht drugs not allowed to be prescribed anymore for a medical condition in the US?

**Youthful55guy** · 07-01-2018, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

I am seriously considering TRT therapy. I have 99% of the symptoms. But...question. So...are pretty much all the derivative dht drugs not allowed to be prescribed anymore for a medical condition in the US?

Your question has me scratching my head. If you are low on testosterone , why would you what to use a DHT derivative drug, when testosterone is what you need?

There are no restrictions placed on doctors for prescribing testosterone when it is medically necessary. Now, insurance coverage may be an issue, but a vial of T-cyp is not expensive at all. My T prescription without insurance coverage (I chose not to submit it) is about $160 per year. Most people can afford that without insurance.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-01-2018, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

Your question has me scratching my head. If you are low on testosterone , why would you what to use a DHT derivative drug, when testosterone is what you need?
There are no restrictions placed on doctors for prescribing testosterone when it is medically necessary. Now, insurance coverage may be an issue, but a vial of T-cyp is not expensive at all. My T prescription without insurance coverage (I chose not to submit it) is about $160 per year. Most people can afford that without insurance.

As I always say , a good doctor is very hard to come by youthful, unfortunately.
It’s why these TRT clinics are banking... they know doctors either frown upon this area because they don’t believe low t is an issue or they are scared they will be watched like a hawk prescribing class 2 substances. It’s all bs in my eyes but it’s a issue that needs to be resolved.

**Youthful55guy** · 07-01-2018, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

As I always say , a good doctor is very hard to come by youthful, unfortunately.
It’s why these TRT clinics are banking... they know doctors either frown upon this area because they don’t believe low t is an issue or they are scared they will be watched like a hawk prescribing class 2 substances. It’s all bs in my eyes but it’s a issue that needs to be resolved.

I completely agree! I had to start out with the TRT clinic because the first two docs I saw wanted to put me on antidepressants. They are perfectly fine with giving them out like candy, but scared $%!tle$$ to prescribe T because their peers might accuse them of being pushers. they have good reason too, just read some of the chatter on this forum about guys who what to throw off labs and fake symptoms to get a script for T. I'm not being judgmental, it's just that these conflicting uses of T make it that much more difficult for those who need it for medically legitimate purposes to get the treatment they so desperately need.

OK, I'll climb off my soap box now.

Getting back to the core question, there are few reasons a guy will need a DHT derivative for TRT. I happen to be one of the exceptions with genetically high SHBG, but I've resigned myself to the fact that expecting the medical community to treat a genetic condition that only affects 10% of men with an anabolic hormone that has a history of abuse is asking too much of them. I will treat the condition myself through alternative channels.

Other than high SHBG, I really can't think of any other condition where a DHT derivative (or any other synthetic androgenic hormone for that matter) might be beneficial to TRT. I'd be sincerely interested in knowing if there is another medically necessary use of the drugs in a TRT protocol.

**sleepstalker** · 07-03-2018, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

Your question has me scratching my head. If you are low on testosterone , why would you what to use a DHT derivative drug, when testosterone is what you need?

There are no restrictions placed on doctors for prescribing testosterone when it is medically necessary. Now, insurance coverage may be an issue, but a vial of T-cyp is not expensive at all. My T prescription without insurance coverage (I chose not to submit it) is about $160 per year. Most people can afford that without insurance.

Your right but in reference to the OP's post and "other" possible medical conditions. I was curious on the legality of these substances when it comes to a medical condition. Based on my research pretty much Test and Deca are the only ones left available by a doctor in the US with a legitimate prescription.

**Youthful55guy** · 07-03-2018, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

Your right but in reference to the OP's post and "other" possible medical conditions. I was curious on the legality of these substances when it comes to a medical condition. Based on my research pretty much Test and Deca are the only ones left available by a doctor in the US with a legitimate prescription.

Oxandrolone (Anavar ) comes immediately to mind. It is a DHT derivative, and is has several FDA approved medical indications. Most notably, for weight gain from a variety of chronic wasting conditions such as HIV. It is also used to prevent catabolism with long-term corticosteroid use, to promote healing of chronic wounds and burns, and pain associated with osteoporosis. There are also some unique orphan drug approvals such as a reare developmental condition in girls (Turner syndrome).

Stanozolol (Winstol) is also FDA approved for many of the same conditions, but it is no longer commercially available in the USA. The manufacturer withdrew it from the US market for marketing reasons. It is readily available in most other major markets in the world.

**sleepstalker** · 07-04-2018, 05:10 AM

I don't know why these things that can be made here are deemed illegal if they can have a reduction of side effects when taken for medical reasons.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-04-2018, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

I don't know why these things that can be made here are deemed illegal if they can have a reduction of side effects when taken for medical reasons.

Welcome to America lol.
People come here for a better life and freedom.. yet we as Americans have no rights and freedoms. You’re asking a question you will never get an answer to

**Youthful55guy** · 07-04-2018, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

I don't know why these things that can be made here are deemed illegal if they can have a reduction of side effects when taken for medical reasons.

In the medical world, "legal" is a relative term. There are very few things that are illegal for a doctor to prescribe if the drug is approved for at least one condition and in commercial distribution. Doctors are free to prescribe for 'off label' use.

Legal action only comes into play when it can be proven that a doctor is prescribing drugs for non-medical purposes, and mostly this is confined to highly controlled drugs such as narcotics and anabolic steroids . There are two oversight agencies that come into play. First there are the peer organizations that grant doctors a prescriptive license. Secondly, there is the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) itself that can bring legal charges against the doctor, especially if it can be proven that the doctor is doing it for profit. Generally, a doctor needs to be really abusive in prescriptive powers to get the attention from either power.

Insurance companies are another level of oversight. They may simply refuse to pay for medications that are prescribed outside of approved indications. However, given the very low cost of testosterone , pretty much anyone can afford it without insurance coverage. So, I don't see that the problem some make it out to be.

With regard to prescribing anabolic steroids , most doctors simply do not feel comfortable prescribing them because of the social pressures. So, if you really need an anabolic steroid for an off label use, they will more than likely send you to a specialist to protect their professional integrity.

For me, I know that I can benefit from a prescription of low dose Anavar to keep my genetically high SHBG within normal rages. However, it is an uphill battle to get that prescription that I chose not to fight. I am thrilled that I'm able to get a script for T-cyp and HCG . So I deal with SHBG treatment through alternative channels rather than jeopardizing the relationship I have with my doctor by pushing too hard for a drug that she will have a difficult time justifying to her peers if she is ever challenged.

**Windex** · 07-04-2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

In the medical world, "legal" is a relative term. There are very few things that are illegal for a doctor to prescribe if the drug is approved for at least one condition and in commercial distribution. Doctors are free to prescribe for 'off label' use.

Legal action only comes into play when it can be proven that a doctor is prescribing drugs for non-medical purposes, and mostly this is confined to highly controlled drugs such as narcotics and anabolic steroids . There are two oversight agencies that come into play. First there are the peer organizations that grant doctors a prescriptive license. Secondly, there is the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) itself that can bring legal charges against the doctor, especially if it can be proven that the doctor is doing it for profit. Generally, a doctor needs to be really abusive in prescriptive powers to get the attention from either power.

Insurance companies are another level of oversight. They may simply refuse to pay for medications that are prescribed outside of approved indications. However, given the very low cost of testosterone , pretty much anyone can afford it without insurance coverage. So, I don't see that the problem some make it out to be.

With regard to prescribing anabolic steroids , most doctors simply do not feel comfortable prescribing them because of the social pressures. So, if you really need an anabolic steroid for an off label use, they will more than likely send you to a specialist to protect their professional integrity.

For me, I know that I can benefit from a prescription of low dose Anavar to keep my genetically high SHBG within normal rages. However, it is an uphill battle to get that prescription that I chose not to fight. I am thrilled that I'm able to get a script for T-cyp and HCG. So I deal with SHBG treatment through alternative channels rather than jeopardizing the relationship I have with my doctor by pushing too hard for a drug that she will have a difficult time justifying to her peers if she is ever challenged.

I can relate 100%. I Have My TRT Script, HCG , and HGH. I want nandrolone and oxandrolone next but it's quite challenging to approach it. It took me around 7 years to build a really strong relationship with my doctor.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-04-2018, 12:43 PM

Definitely can relate with you guys 100%

“With regard to prescribing anabolic steroids , most doctors simply do not feel comfortable prescribing them because of the social pressures. So, if you really need an anabolic steroid for an off label use, they will more than likely send you to a specialist to protect their professional integrity”

This is exactly what I’m going through with my pcp. Man doesn’t even feel Comfortable doing blood work for me even knowing I’m doing TRT.
It’s unfortunate but this is what’s happening. I do hope this gets better. Youthful if my doctor were to write me a script for test and my Insurance didn’t cover it I’d gladly pay the difference. Still a ton cheaper then these damn TRT clinics robbing the shit out of people.

**diesel101** · 07-09-2018, 10:26 AM

My endo is a rockstar in my eyes. He wants me to run my test up at the high end of spec and has no problem prescribing AI,HCG and Cialis. I am very lucky my insurance covers everthing but the HCG.
I pay $22 per 10 ml vial for test but even with out insurance it is only around $80 per vial.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-09-2018, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by diesel101

My endo is a rockstar in my eyes. He wants me to run my test up at the high end of spec and has no problem prescribing AI,HCG and Cialis. I am very lucky my insurance covers everthing but the HCG.
I pay $22 per 10 ml vial for test but even with out insurance it is only around $80 per vial.

That’s awesome dude.

**Dannyboy51577** · 07-09-2018, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

I completely agree! I had to start out with the TRT clinic because the first two docs I saw wanted to put me on antidepressants. They are perfectly fine with giving them out like candy, but scared $%!tle$$ to prescribe T because their peers might accuse them of being pushers. they have good reason too, just read some of the chatter on this forum about guys who what to throw off labs and fake symptoms to get a script for T. I'm not being judgmental, it's just that these conflicting uses of T make it that much more difficult for those who need it for medically legitimate purposes to get the treatment they so desperately need.

OK, I'll climb off my soap box now.

Getting back to the core question, there are few reasons a guy will need a DHT derivative for TRT. I happen to be one of the exceptions with genetically high SHBG, but I've resigned myself to the fact that expecting the medical community to treat a genetic condition that only affects 10% of men with an anabolic hormone that has a history of abuse is asking too much of them. I will treat the condition myself through alternative channels.

Other than high SHBG, I really can't think of any other condition where a DHT derivative (or any other synthetic androgenic hormone for that matter) might be beneficial to TRT. I'd be sincerely interested in knowing if there is another medically necessary use of the drugs in a TRT protocol.

I get what you mean about guys that dont need trt throwing off labs but this is a gray area. I went to 3 different docs for same thing- test levels were just below 300, felt like shit, gaining weight, sex issues, and i went through test after test, try this try that, for 6 months with no help. All because my test level wasnt below "normal". So if i want trt i can either keep bouncing docs until one agrees or i can run a cycle, drop it, let my level crash below normal - which isnt much of a stretch, then keep the doc that i like for everything and get trt covered on the insurance i pay out the ass to have. Or go to one of these clinics and pay put of pocket a crazy amount of money and dont even use the insurance i pay out the ass to have.

So for some of us its a losing or at the very least a difficult road

**Youthful55guy** · 07-09-2018, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dannyboy51577

I get what you mean about guys that dont need trt throwing off labs but this is a gray area. I went to 3 different docs for same thing- test levels were just below 300, felt like shit, gaining weight, sex issues, and i went through test after test, try this try that, for 6 months with no help. All because my test level wasnt below "normal". So if i want trt i can either keep bouncing docs until one agrees or i can run a cycle, drop it, let my level crash below normal - which isnt much of a stretch, then keep the doc that i like for everything and get trt covered on the insurance i pay out the ass to have. Or go to one of these clinics and pay put of pocket a crazy amount of money and dont even use the insurance i pay out the ass to have.

So for some of us its a losing or at the very least a difficult road

I hear you. In the previous post I was referring to guys trying to get a script for T when they didn't need it in the first place for medical reasons. By obtaining a 'legal' script for T, they can blast (with black market T) and cruise with scripted T. They often muddy the water by calling it TRT, when in fact, it is not medical use or TRT. The side effects and protocols used to manage the side-effects are generally not necessary when real TRT is administered properly. Again, I state that I'm not passing judgement, just that it be called what it is, not TRT.

As for you situation, I totally get what you're saying. Sometimes guys that are borderline by the archaic medical standards in effect today do need to throw off tests to get the treatment they need and deserve. In this case I am passing judgment on a medical system that is willing to pass out antidepressants and ED meds like candy but not treat the core cause of the problem. I totally support you in this case.

I was in a somewhat different but similar situation with high SHBG and 'normal' Total T. I could not get a doc to treat me. However, I did not have to go to the extreme to throw off tests. Instead, I finally found a TRT clinic willing to treat based on Free T, and then from there migrated to a private doc that charged an arm and leg and did not take insurance. Finally, I was able to consolidate under an understanding primary care doc, who now administers my program under my current insurance coverage, though I simply do not submit the pharmacy bills for filling the T and HCG . The meds are not that expensive, so I don't want to fight that battle.

Good luck with whatever course you choose!

**kelkel** · 07-09-2018, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

I can relate 100%. I Have My TRT Script, HCG, and HGH. I want nandrolone and oxandrolone next but it's quite challenging to approach it. It took me around 7 years to build a really strong relationship with my doctor.

Good luck getting insurance to pay for deca . Mine did briefly then they weaseled their way out of it. You'll also (more than likely) have to get it compounded which will add even more out of pocket costs to it. The compounding pharmacy I used charged $300 per bottle. When insurance stopped covering it I naturally sourced it elsewhere for 1/6th the cost. Var should be an easy script for your doc to write as long as it's kept at a low dosage. Mine will write me var at 20 mgs any time asked.

**EndlessApex** · 07-09-2018, 01:19 PM

I'm just starting a program with a Doc in west palm beach FL but he seems like a good guy. Says he likes to take patients up around 1500 test levels, assuming everything else health wise looks good. Only downside is it's a cash patient only practice, and I wont drop his name here but if you check on Marc Lobliners personal youtube channel he's been using this doc and talks about it in his more recent videos.