Nolvadex TRT protocol

[HealthyMan]

My Doctor is going to be prescribing Nolvadex. The pic shows what my numbers were with no test of hCG.

A little background, I was on Test Cyp and hCG for the last 6 years.

Test Cyp 100mg x 2 weekly
hCG 500iu x 1 week.

I have no idea what he plans to prescribe as a dose so I am asking what would be considered a standard prescription? Also, he has concerns about this drug being used in men long term. He said theres no long term studies in men just yet. However, mentioned the concerns. Has anyone been on this for over 4 years? Any issues?

[Windex]

You've been on 500mg of Test for 6 years ? Is that a typo ?

Why are you being prescribed tamoxifen?

Did you get any other bloodwork done aside from testosterone levels?

Test levels alone don't provide a lot of context. On top of that your bloodwork is skewed because you are getting tested on different days of the week. March 20th and June 19th are Tuesday whereas July 12th is a Thursday. Assuming you do the standard Monday AM and Thursday PM injections then of course the Tuesday results are higher thats when it will peak. If bloodwork isn't always done on same day of week you aren't comparing apples to apples.

Why HCG only once per week?

[HealthyMan]

You've been on 500mg of Test for 6 years ? Is that a typo ?

Yes it was! Should have been 100mgx2 weekly.

He originally wanted to prescribe Chlomid. The consensus here is Nolvadex over Chlomid. The reason he wants to take me off Test Cyp is to try a different protocol altogether. I have been feeling like crap, similar to before TRT. The numbers above were different dates for BW. But I was just emphasizing that the last BW on 7/12 was when I was off completely. I did not have CBC or anything else tested on that date.

The hCG was just to keep the boys going.

[kelkel]

You need further testing before you make a move like this, imho. If you feel like crap there's probably a reason for it and in depth BW would probably clue you in. Maybe your estrogen is ridiculously high, which at 200 mgs per week I'd bet money it is. Maybe it's your thyroid. The list can go on. Simply changing protocols is not really the answer just yet. Most people just don't get the subjective benefits that testosterone gives when using serms.

It's also questionable whether this will work for you depending on how functional your pituitary and testicals are. If you're secondary hypogonadal then it's a crap shoot whether your pituitary will accept the stimulation or provide the level of stim needed to attain adequate T levels. If primary hypo (nut failure) then it's futile.

Try to get further blood work. At least get a Sensitive Estrogen Assay to start. If in the states you can try Discounted Labs if your particular state allows it. Cost effective and quick.

[Windex]

Yes it was! Should have been 100mgx2 weekly.

He originally wanted to prescribe Chlomid. The consensus here is Nolvadex over Chlomid. The reason he wants to take me off Test Cyp is to try a different protocol altogether. I have been feeling like crap, similar to before TRT. The numbers above were different dates for BW. But I was just emphasizing that the last BW on 7/12 was when I was off completely. I did not have CBC or anything else tested on that date.

The hCG was just to keep the boys going.

I understand the numbers were for different dates. What I am trying to explain though is you should always get your bloodwork done on the same day of the week. Two of your bloodworks were done on Tuesday where the third was done on Thursday. You can't accurately compare the 7/12 to your other two tests.

[HealthyMan]

You need further testing before you make a move like this, imho. If you feel like crap there's probably a reason for it and in depth BW would probably clue you in. Maybe your estrogen is ridiculously high, which at 200 mgs per week I'd bet money it is. Maybe it's your thyroid. The list can go on. Simply changing protocols is not really the answer just yet. Most people just don't get the subjective benefits that testosterone gives when using serms.

It's also questionable whether this will work for you depending on how functional your pituitary and testicals are. If you're secondary hypogonadal then it's a crap shoot whether your pituitary will accept the stimulation or provide the level of stim needed to attain adequate T levels. If primary hypo (nut failure) then it's futile.

Try to get further blood work. At least get a Sensitive Estrogen Assay to start. If in the states you can try Discounted Labs if your particular state allows it. Cost effective and quick.

kelkel,

These labs were taken 2 days post pin of Test cyp @ 100mg.

Are you suggesting that 100mg test c is too little? I have had zero sex drive for months.

[David LoPan]

I would be pissed if a doctor changed me from trt to a serm after 6 years. Did he give you a reason for going this direction?

High estrogen levels can kill your sex drive

[HealthyMan]

I would be pissed if a doctor changed me from trt to a serm after 6 years. Did he give you a reason for going this direction?

High estrogen levels can kill your sex drive

Other than stating that the use of hCG was a bit unconventional for TRT he wanted to try a new protocol. At my request, I wasn't sure what to do so I was going off the advice of an Endo. He was aware of my protocol but still pushed for Chlomid. I asked for Nolvadex and he was receptive.

I am not 100% sold on switching from Test-cyp to s SERM. Why wouldn't you switch?

[Mr.BB]

He originally wanted to prescribe Chlomid. The consensus here is Nolvadex over Chlomid.

Consensus from whom?!?!

Tamoxifen as SERM is a wrong choice, and your doctor is not thinking clearly.

Tamoxifen is mainly used in breast cancer, it is known to promote blood clots and death, when used for long periods, which you will expect from a functional TRT protocol.
Choosing between cancer and increased chance of DVT is one thing, but between TRT and the same increased DVT chance is a completely different decision.

Where did your doctor heard of tamoxifen as TRT??

[HealthyMan]

Consensus from whom?!?!

Tamoxifen as SERM is a wrong choice, and your doctor is not thinking clearly.

Tamoxifen is mainly used in breast cancer, it is known to promote blood clots and death, when used for long periods, which you will expect from a functional TRT protocol.
Choosing between cancer and increased chance of DVT is one thing, but between TRT and the same increased DVT chance is a completely different decision.

Where did your doctor heard of tamoxifen as TRT??

I posed the question here and from I've read, people opt for Nolvadex. Why is it a wrong choice? I mentioned it to him after he talked about Chlomid in lieu of Test-Cyp.

[David LoPan]

I bet you are needing an AI more than anything. Your Estradiol is what 61 and normal is 20-55. That might be the reason you have no sex drive. Some guys are more sensitive to estradiol than others. If it were me I would be wanting to add an AI instead of changing a protocol. Aromatase Inhibitors do exactly what their name states. They inhibit the aromatase enzyme. The aromatase enzyme is the enzyme responsible for the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. Any testosterone based steroids aromatize to estrogen. When I first started on TRT I did not need an AI and over the years I now need one.

As far as the other things you are asking about they are Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators, bind selectively to estrogen receptors in various locations in the body. They illicit 2 effects that are primarily of interest to the steroid user; first they block the estrogen receptor in breast tissue preventing or potentially treating the condition known as Gyno.

This might help you, I just cut copy and pasted some of my replies to you from there. You need to book mark it. https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...nce-guide.html

[HealthyMan]

This might help you, I just cut copy and pasted some of my replies to you from there. You need to book mark it. https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...nce-guide.html

Thank you! I am not completely sold on Nolvadex. I did push back and asked if he'd clarify what protocol he'd recommend if I continued with Test-Cyp.

[Mr.BB]

I posed the question here and from I've read, people opt for Nolvadex. Why is it a wrong choice? I mentioned it to him after he talked about Chlomid in lieu of Test-Cyp.

Like I said in last post (maybe you missed it), tamoxifen has bad track record for promoting formation of blood clots.

While both are SERMs, tamoxifen is mainly used in breast cancer, clomiphene main use is in the fertility area.

Thinking a bit more about your problem this discussion may be totally futile, as if you are truly on a needed TRT (hypogonadism) there is little chances of any SERM do anything for you. If your TRT was more of steroid blast type, maybe there is some chance of your testicles restart working. Your bloodwork should really be bad for you doctor want to take you off testosterone.

Good luck

EDIT: Just noticed the bloodwork you posted above although could not find any cholesterol values. Its not that bad, it can easily be fixed with some blood donation, certainly you have enough iron to do the blood donations. Estradiol is only slightly elevated, easily fixed by an AI, but ONLY IF you continued in TRT (non SERM TRT), if you are dropping testosterone this will lower pretty quick.

[HealthyMan]

Like I said in last post (maybe you missed it), tamoxifen has bad track record for promoting formation of blood clots.

While both are SERMs, tamoxifen is mainly used in breast cancer, clomiphene main use is in the fertility area.

Thinking a bit more about your problem this discussion may be totally futile, as if you are truly on a needed TRT (hypogonadism) there is little chances of any SERM do anything for you. If your TRT was more of steroid blast type, maybe there is some chance of your testicles restart working. Your bloodwork should really be bad for you doctor want to take you off testosterone.

Good luck

EDIT: Just noticed the bloodwork you posted above although could not find any cholesterol values. Its not that bad, it can easily be fixed with some blood donation, certainly you have enough iron to do the blood donations. Estradiol is only slightly elevated, easily fixed by an AI, but ONLY IF you continued in TRT (non SERM TRT), if you are dropping testosterone this will lower pretty quick.

I really appreciate your feedback! I am considering going back to my old TRT protocol, to include hCG. What kind of AI should I include and what kind of does should I start with? My TRT protocol from before is within my first post.

[Chrisp83TRT]

You should always have a AI in hand when on TRT. And for a doctor to prescribe nolva for TRT is silly. It’s something you take dur No a cycle to avoid gyno from certain compounds but of dosing a proper AI , this shouldn’t be an issue.
For you probably start with .25 e3d and get blood work in like 4-6 weeks and see where your E is.

Believe me when I say this , a lot of things could effect your sex drive. It could be a huge number of things. The important thing is you getting blood and figuring out the cause as to why you feel like shit .

Your red counts look a bit high . That alone will make you feel not good.

[Mr.BB]

I really appreciate your feedback! I am considering going back to my old TRT protocol, to include hCG. What kind of AI should I include and what kind of does should I start with? My TRT protocol from before is within my first post.

If you can manage to lower your TRT dosage to 150mg per week or less you might not even need any AI, and in my opinion this should be your objective. Many guys here are doing 100-120mg per week successfully. It is much healthier, for example 2x60mg per week. Then once or twice a year you can blast for a few weeks to build some muscle, if thats one of your objectives.

If you want to continue with the 200mg dosage you should do what Chris says above.