should I be cycling off test C?

[MerKaBa]

I'm new to all this and was recently prescribed Test C, so I figured I'd post here first. I've been taking it for about 6 months now with good results and reading through a few posts here I became concerned with cycling.

I'm 34 years old 5'10" 165lb, and I'm a retired athlete that stays in decent shape. My Test levels were 460 at start. I workout on weekdays and drink on the weekends, but I'm looking to step it up and see how much I can improve my body and physical ability.


My current regimen is as follows:

Half CC of Test C every 6 days (glute)
Half CC of HCG two days prior to test (ab)
Half dose of Anastrolozone every other day

Daily:
Testofen supplament from GNC (test 1700 or something)
Resveritol
Fish Oil
Vitamin D
Multi Vitamin
DHEA
Some BCAA's
low dose aspirin

Is this a good schedule or is it better for me to be cycling off? Is there anything I should consider adding?

[ghettoboyd]

I’m assuming this is doctor prescribed trt so no you should be on for life...talk to him as you should already know that trt is for life...

[Youthful55guy]

Cycling is an anabolic steroid practice and has no place in medically necessary TRT. Folks who use steroids for anabolic purposes cycle on an off to avoid the detrimental aspects of side-effects. Medically necessary TRT, on the other hand, is intended to restore natural T levels and is intended to be implemented non-stop for the rest of your life.

Regarding your dose. If this is 200 mg/mL T-cyp (standard stuff in the USA), then your overall dose is ~117 mg/week, which is a pretty standard dose. I'd consider breaking that up into smaller and more frequent doses. I like the every 3 day protocol myself. You will have more stable T levels and fewer side-effects. For you to maintain that same overall dose, that would be 50 mg (0.25 mL of 200 mg/mL) E3D.

Also, with those small volumes of 0.25 mL, you can use an insulin syringe and move to easier to access muscles like the Quads or deltoids. I use a 28G insulin syringe injecting into my Quads, alternating left and right. I've been doing this for over 6 years with excellent results.

I suggest you read the sticky post on the first page of this subforum on "Best Practices in TRT". There's a diagram on where to inject in the quads.

[Windex]

DHEA ; 25mg in AM and 25mg in PM

Vitamin D3 : start with 5000 or 6000IU and test hydroxy-vitamin-d in 6 months

Test supplement from GNC : useless, throw in garbage

You need Magnesium (500mg baseline) and Vitamin K2 (100mcg). You can find supplements that have both of these in one. If you don't take these then Calciferol (Vit D3) leeches calcium from your bones. That means you end up as a cripple and break your hip doing doggie with a hot latina at 45 years old.

HCG administered 3x per week rather than once, same as Testosterone.


You shouldn't need an AI, it's a very toxic drug. Frequent test injections stabilize estrogen.

[Youthful55guy]

DHEA ; 25mg in AM and 25mg in PM

Vitamin D3 : start with 5000 or 6000IU and test hydroxy-vitamin-d in 6 months

Test supplement from GNC : useless, throw in garbage

You need Magnesium (500mg baseline) and Vitamin K2 (100mcg). You can find supplements that have both of these in one. If you don't take these then Calciferol (Vit D3) leeches calcium from your bones. That means you end up as a cripple and break your hip doing doggie with a hot latina at 45 years old.

HCG administered 3x per week rather than once, same as Testosterone.

You shouldn't need an AI, it's a very toxic drug. Frequent test injections stabilize estrogen.

Agree with all Wndex's points, particularly the testosterone supplement. Its a complete waste of money.

[MerKaBa]

Thanks for the response!

On the test supplement my doctor recommended it for the fenugreek based on my low levels of free testosterone, and maybe it is psychosomatic but I notice a significant boost in energy and focused aggression when I take it. I have gone without it for weeks but always seem to feel better when I take it, it is called "test 1700". It's possible it could have been coincidence due to nutritional fluctuations and workout fluctuations so I'll try without it again while I'm on a solid routine and not injured.

My multi-vit has 80mcg of K and 100mcg of magnesium, but I also occasionally take ZMA. I'll make sure I make an adjustment in my daily routine. Funny you mention that about calcium leeching, I just broke a finger for the fist time in my life.

AI refers to the aspirin or the anastrolozone? I'll read the pinned posts, just figured it did hurt to ask here too.

On measurements I'm very confused. My syringes have 3ml total, I have been injecting 0.5ml every 6 days. Are you recommending that I change it to 0.25ml every 3 days, and do the same with the HCG two days prior to the test injections? I keep seeing people mention 200mg as standard so I'm curious how that translates, would 0.5ml be 500mg somehow? am i taking too much right now?

also are quad injections better than glutes? I read glute was far superior previously so been doing that, but totally open to expert opinions

Thanks again!

[Windex]

You are receiving a placebo effect - Test boosters do nothing to begin with and even less when you are injecting Testosterone.

They have been debunked and disproven 100 times over. DHEA and Vitamin D3 will provide a million times more benefit than a useless test booster.

There's no superior injection site - it's just a matter of what you prefer and can rotate easily. I use quads and calves, haven't done glutes in many years.

Pin the Testosterone AND HCG on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday - that will keep everything simplified.

[MerKaBa]

So is the whole "free testosterone" thing bullshit?

m/w/f I can inject both hcg and test at the same time? Also HCG is best in the abdomen, or IM for that too? I'm going to try quad with the smaller shorter insulin needles as suggested and see how that works

[Youthful55guy]

So is the whole "free testosterone" thing bullshit?

m/w/f I can inject both hcg and test at the same time? Also HCG is best in the abdomen, or IM for that too? I'm going to try quad with the smaller shorter insulin needles as suggested and see how that works

No. Free T is the only measurement that really matters. Total T can be used as a screening tool, but it is very unreliable for guys who have low or high SHBG. Free T is the most definitive lab.

Regarding dosage. We need to know what the concentration is of the T you have. Does it say 200 mg/mL on the bottle? In the USA, there is also 100 mg/mL available, but it is less common. Overseas, 250 m/mL is often more common. We need to know what you have to make recommendations.

Regarding injection site, there is no superior or inferior site. It's what works best for you. Most docs are set on giving patients harpoons to inject, but that is old school. You do not need to inject deep into the muscle. Actually, several studies have shown that subcutaneous injection work just as well as IM injection, you do not need to inject into the muscle at all. I prefer shallow IM injections with a 1/2 inch 28G insulin syringe. I also prefer the quads because I pretty much where shorts year round where I live and the quads are more accessible to me without having to disrobe.

Regarding frequency, injecting smaller doses more frequently is superior than larger doses less frequency. I prefer the every 3 day protocol rather than the MWF protocol, but either is fine. With the E3D protocol. just pick what works best for you.

Regarding inject site, it doesn't make a difference. I inject into the quads, but with a smaller 5/16 inch 31 G insulin syringe. Not sure if it actually gets into the muscle, and it doesn't make any difference. Just get it into the body. As for frequency, I prefer to stick with the same schedule as my T injection. It just makes things easier to remember.

Regarding test booster, I agree with Windex, about all they do is drain you pocketbook. Save the money for the meds that matter.

Regarding AI, the term is used for "Aromatase Inhibitor", which is a class of drug that inhibits the enzyme that converts T to E. Anastrozole is the most common of the AIs. I agree with Windex that if you are using traditional TRT doses of T and are injecting on a 3X per week or E3D protocol, you should not need an AI. Guys need E too for erections and libido and AIs are extremely difficult to dose for guys. The drugs are manufactured in doses that are designed to treat breast cancer in women, who have much higher levels of E. Most guys end up crashing their E when they use and AI and end up with a bad case of ED and wonder why their TRT is not helping. Best advice is to NEVER use an AI unless you have the correct labs that indicate you need it and then to follow up those labs with careful dosing experiments. I talk about this in the "Best practices" sticky.

[MerKaBa]

No. Free T is the only measurement that really matters. Total T can be used as a screening tool, but it is very unreliable for guys who have low or high SHBG. Free T is the most definitive lab.

got it. my free t was low. my overall levels weren't that bad.

Regarding dosage. We need to know what the concentration is of the T you have. Does it say 200 mg/mL on the bottle? In the USA, there is also 100 mg/mL available, but it is less common. Overseas, 250 m/mL is often more common. We need to know what you have to make recommendations.

Ah now I get it. Yes, my bottle has 200mg/ml on the label.

Regarding injection site, there is no superior or inferior site. It's what works best for you. Most docs are set on giving patients harpoons to inject, but that is old school. You do not need to inject deep into the muscle. Actually, several studies have shown that subcutaneous injection work just as well as IM injection, you do not need to inject into the muscle at all. I prefer shallow IM injections with a 1/2 inch 28G insulin syringe. I also prefer the quads because I pretty much where shorts year round where I live and the quads are more accessible to me without having to disrobe.

Regarding frequency, injecting smaller doses more frequently is superior than larger doses less frequency. I prefer the every 3 day protocol rather than the MWF protocol, but either is fine. With the E3D protocol. just pick what works best for you.

Regarding inject site, it doesn't make a difference. I inject into the quads, but with a smaller 5/16 inch 31 G insulin syringe. Not sure if it actually gets into the muscle, and it doesn't make any difference. Just get it into the body. As for frequency, I prefer to stick with the same schedule as my T injection. It just makes things easier to remember.

Regarding test booster, I agree with Windex, about all they do is drain you pocketbook. Save the money for the meds that matter.

Regarding AI, the term is used for "Aromatase Inhibitor", which is a class of drug that inhibits the enzyme that converts T to E. Anastrozole is the most common of the AIs. I agree with Windex that if you are using traditional TRT doses of T and are injecting on a 3X per week or E3D protocol, you should not need an AI. Guys need E too for erections and libido and AIs are extremely difficult to dose for guys. The drugs are manufactured in doses that are designed to treat breast cancer in women, who have much higher levels of E. Most guys end up crashing their E when they use and AI and end up with a bad case of ED and wonder why their TRT is not helping. Best advice is to NEVER use an AI unless you have the correct labs that indicate you need it and then to follow up those labs with careful dosing experiments. I talk about this in the "Best practices" sticky.

Thanks. I read the sticky thread earlier. I was obviously concerned with gynoch---sausage-nipples however you spell it. I've seen people with it and wanted to make sure it wasn't an issue, and my doctor said the AI would prevent it. Do you recommend cutting it out completely unless I get labs back that show a potential need for it, or just cut back the dosage further and do the vodka eye dropper thing? I haven't had any problems with ED and I haven't seen any signs of any other related issues with nipples either.

[Youthful55guy]

Thanks. I read the sticky thread earlier. I was obviously concerned with gynoch---sausage-nipples however you spell it. I've seen people with it and wanted to make sure it wasn't an issue, and my doctor said the AI would prevent it. Do you recommend cutting it out completely unless I get labs back that show a potential need for it, or just cut back the dosage further and do the vodka eye dropper thing? I haven't had any problems with ED and I haven't seen any signs of any other related issues with nipples either.

For most guys using reasonable TRT doses of T and not fooling around with synthetic anabolic hormones, you should never need an AI. Since there are many different injection schedules, we usually compare dosage on a weekly basis. For most guys, a reasonable TRT dose is between 90-120 mg/week. Your dose of 0.5mL of 200mg/mL T-cyp every 6 days equates to 117mg per week, which falls into the "reasonable range". An unknown factor is that we do not know your SHBG level and that can effect how much you need and/or the dosing frequency. The more SHBG you have, the more T you will need to get Free T into a reasonable range. Guys with low SHBG need to inject much more frequently (daily) to keep their T in range. It's much more complicated for guys with low SHBG.

Bottom line is that you probably do not need an AI and you will more than likely drive your E into the ground and end up with side-effects that mimic low T. THE ONLY TIME you should consider using an AI when on TRT is if you have the CORRECT labs that say your E is high. By correct, it needs to be a "sensitive" assay designed for men, not the standard lab designed for women. men will always test high on the female assay and give you misinformation saying you need an AI. The best assay for men uses the LC/MS/MS methodology. Here is a link to where you can purchase it yourself (in most states) if your doctor cannot figure out how to order the correct lab. It's not that expensive: https://www.discountedlabs.com/estra...itive-lc-ms-ms.

You should be off of the AI your doc prescribed for at least 6 weeks and at your normal dose prior to testing for E. You need to give it a chance to stabilize to get an accurate measurement. You should do the lab draw just prior to your next scheduled injection and be very consistent from lab draw to lab draw so that you can compare one lab to the next. If you are on the E3D protocol that I recommended, then it does not matter which injection you choose because they are spaced equally apart. If you use the MWF schedule, you will need to choose which day of the week to test and stick with that day for future labs.

[MerKaBa]

Excellent info, thank you.

I might possibly be interested in experimenting with synthetics when I learn a little more so I'll keep the AI aside until then. What synthetics do you think I should begin looking into based on my info above?

[Windex]

What do you mean by synthetics? If you are referring to other steroids then you need to dial in your HRT and master than before playing with hormones.

I personally believe less than 0.01% of people on HRT need an AI. Even when estrogen is of a concern, DIM at 200-600mg per day and/or Masteron at 100-150mg per week should be introduced well before even considering an AI.

[MerKaBa]

thanks

[Youthful55guy]

Excellent info, thank you.

I might possibly be interested in experimenting with synthetics when I learn a little more so I'll keep the AI aside until then. What synthetics do you think I should begin looking into based on my info above?

I only provide advice on medically necessary TRT, but there's lots of other guys here that can help you.