Steroids and depression +/-

[CAADsprint]

Say you one who frequently has chronic depression and the bag of tricks it comes with, etc etc. But when you get bloodwork your levels still have a foot hold in the good range zone. If your in this situation what are the benefits of trt + low aas use? right now I'm back on oral corticosteroids for breathing aid and Immediately noticed a mood change and feel much better. however personally with prednisone my attitude needs to be watched I dont know why on cortico's but not on anabolics, not yet anyway.

I might as well cycle right after the two week course. Betting I'll get shutdown somewhere during that time. Would high trt and maybe some tbol help with depression even though my bloodwork is within range?? My depression isnt caused by testosterone levels but if steroids hell with depression why not? I remember long ago my PCP sent me to an endocrinologist for depression treatment... but at the time and still now my levels were not near enough for a script.

[GearHeaded]

one thing to keep in mind , that is often times not talked about or even considered much , is that a common side effect with AAS usage is Anxiety. and not just the type of anxiety that makes you panic , I'm talking full fledged you can't barely function anxiety where you may not be able to go out in public or may end up not being able to sleep for days . add that type of situation to someone that already struggles with depression and that could be a very bad thing.

you read about guys online talking about how great they feel on AAS.. most these guys are new users. what you don't hear about, because no one wants to get online and brag about this , is all the guys that start cycles or start running AAS and plan say 12 weeks, and they don't make it past week 8 because they get such bad anxiety they have to bail. no one wants to talk about that because they feel ashamed they couldn't pull through, so thats why you only hear about positives online for the most part.

I had a client no that long ago hire me for a bulk.. he got on a very light cycle, but 4 weeks in he was a miserable anxious mess and had to come off. at that point he told me he's probably never going to mess with AAS again . I know of a pro bodybuilder that quit his career very early on after just getting his pro card because the drugs gave him such bad anxiety he just couldn't deal with it anymore.


just something to consider and be aware of

when I plan a cycle/blast and I look forward to the gains, in the back of my mind the one thing I dread of all the side effects is the anxiety that can hit me at a moments notice and the days and days without sleep

[GearHeaded]

also Corticosteroids are NOT anything similar to AAS. complete opposite drugs .. one is a catabolic derivative of cortisol, the other is an anabolic androgen derivative. the only thing they have in common is the word "steroid " , meaning made from cholesterol .
they are as opposite as a tree is to an axe (both just happened to be made from wood)

if you feel good on the corticosteroid your taking for breathing issues, its probably because its helping your breathing . theres nothing in the word "steroid" thats making your feel good . again all that means is the drug was derived from a cholesterol molecule

[HoldMyBeer]

one thing to keep in mind , that is often times not talked about or even considered much , is that a common side effect with AAS usage is Anxiety. and not just the type of anxiety that makes you panic , I'm talking full fledged you can't barely function anxiety where you may not be able to go out in public or may end up not being able to sleep for days . add that type of situation to someone that already struggles with depression and that could be a very bad thing.

you read about guys online talking about how great they feel on AAS.. most these guys are new users. what you don't hear about, because no one wants to get online and brag about this , is all the guys that start cycles or start running AAS and plan say 12 weeks, and they don't make it past week 8 because they get such bad anxiety they have to bail. no one wants to talk about that because they feel ashamed they couldn't pull through, so thats why you only hear about positives online for the most part.

I had a client no that long ago hire me for a bulk.. he got on a very light cycle, but 4 weeks in he was a miserable anxious mess and had to come off. at that point he told me he's probably never going to mess with AAS again . I know of a pro bodybuilder that quit his career very early on after just getting his pro card because the drugs gave him such bad anxiety he just couldn't deal with it anymore.


just something to consider and be aware of

when I plan a cycle/blast and I look forward to the gains, in the back of my mind the one thing I dread of all the side effects is the anxiety that can hit me at a moments notice and the days and days without sleep

I do believe depression can be an indirect result. Even if bloodwork is in range, it can people generally train harder, can sleep less, etc. Taxes the CNS, raises cortisol levels, creates more stress in general. Push it long enough you can start to feel tired and shitty. Quality of life suffers. All these things are a good recipe for depression.

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[kelkel]

What do you consider a "good range" of testosterone ?

Is this based on total t or free t? If you have high total T yet low free T due to the majority being bound by shbg then you can still be symptomatic of low T. Basically low functional T can cause depression in some men. More common in older guys though. And like GH mentioned, the opposite can be true for some guys where supraphysiological values of T can cause depression as well. It's why the term "optimized" is thrown around in the TRT world all the time. It's where you feel the best based on normal supplemental values, not excessive ones.

[CAADsprint]

What do you consider a "good range" of testosterone ?

Is this based on total t or free t? If you have high total T yet low free T due to the majority being bound by shbg then you can still be symptomatic of low T. Basically low functional T can cause depression in some men. More common in older guys though. And like GH mentioned, the opposite can be true for some guys where supraphysiological values of T can cause depression as well. It's why the term "optimized" is thrown around in the TRT world all the time. It's where you feel the best based on normal supplemental values, not excessive ones.

Last test I think it was 643 total and free was on the lower half but not by a terrible amount. My E2 was high. Not over the bar high but in the higher range. Keep in mind my bloodwork at that time was rushed. My primary care at that time (previous PCP mentioned was my families PCP for as long as I can remember in my hometown). I had just gotten off another prednisone taper maybe five or seven days prior. My doctor kind of black mailed me into getting the test, I wanted to get a referral for an endocrinologist and I get a call saying I can get the referral if i do the bloodwork asap. I'd like to think that, that was to soon to get an accurate result. Total fine, free low, estrogen high??? Hmmm... lol

Gosh I kind of want to jump on cycle. What would i be looking at? HCG two week, nolvadex , arimadex for two three weeks then wait two weeks from last AI dose? Kind of had my heart set on starting again but if pre cycle/pre trt bloodwork is that important. And I think I know what I'm about to hear lol!!

Note: if that isnt good then the only other appropriate approach I can think of is a traditional PCT ran at full length and make the two week cortico use my cycle time. I think this was discussed before with much great help. But I cant remember if traditional length and dosed PCT was neccessary or not. Forgot to be honest

[Tim1985]

Has your doc ever tested you for the MTHFR and COMT gene mutation? He can run the added test during your next blood work and the COMT test is a cheek swab.

I struggled with chronic depression for over a decade even with meds - Wellbutrin and Prozac. After coming back positive for both, my doc prescribed me SAM-e (over the counter supplement), in addition to my TRT protocol. Once my hormone levels were dialed in, I was able to slowly taper of the antidepressants completely.
Can’t say whether it was the SAM-e, TRT or both but I wish I would have started years sooner.

[Obs]

Your mind finds a stasis through dedicated use.

Corticosteroids are not gonna effect you like AAS.

They actually are catabolic to an extent and dont cause the sides of anabolic androgenics in any way.

I lost my mind recently coming off tren after years.
My mental stasis was thrown for a loop. It is still shit.

You find mental balance over time. I used to chant to myself on my first couple tren runs that I would keep my hands to myself. I wouldnt act like a stupid ass teenager because he couldnt handle hormonal fluxes.

It worked but it was a process. I lost it a couple times but only for a brief period. Anxiety became my best friend. Fight or flight was something I channeled into drive. Coming off though, has been hell. Calm is not something I can do. It becomes a destructive anxiety that makes me feel like I am a failure.

So I am back in a flux, twice as mean and souless as ever in my life, with all this shit raining down.

Its one thing to see your body improve and tell yourself "I will be ok" during an up-flux of AAS.

Its a much worse game for me to tell myself the same thing and lose a lb of lean mass.
It makes me psychotic.

I dont know the cure for this. I always say though we are all so variable in the way we allow our thinking to affect our hypothalamus, that no real definitive cure can be found. You gotta sort it out. Its hard.

You will not believe how much your personality affects your hypothalamus and general plight. Positive forward motion is the only thing that saved my ass before. I am learning a new stagnant game now.

One guy gets shot in the shoulder and sees the blood and sudden pain and faints.

Another guy gets shot 17 times and takes the gun and kills the aggressor.

One was not necessarily tougher than the other. One was just under different mental circumstance.

[Obs]

While we are on the subject of corticosteroid....

I once knew a teen that had a ruptured disc.
He got cortisone shots in his back.

The doctors told him he was on a steroid so that was all he needed to know I guess. He was a dedicated gymrat and very shredded for any natty.
He also claimed agression sides from it. Most actually looked up to him at 5' 9"and maybe 150.

Looking back now it is hilarious. I wonder what he would have done on AAS.

[Obs]

I do believe depression can be an indirect result. Even if bloodwork is in range, it can people generally train harder, can sleep less, etc. Taxes the CNS, raises cortisol levels, creates more stress in general. Push it long enough you can start to feel tired and shitty. Quality of life suffers. All these things are a good recipe for depression.

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I am gonna audit those cns taxes and foreclose on your muscle.

[Obs]

Has your doc ever tested you for the MTHFR and COMT gene mutation? He can run the added test during your next blood work and the COMT test is a cheek swab.

I struggled with chronic depression for over a decade even with meds - Wellbutrin and Prozac. After coming back positive for both, my doc prescribed me SAM-e (over the counter supplement), in addition to my TRT protocol. Once my hormone levels were dialed in, I was able to slowly taper of the antidepressants completely.
Can’t say whether it was the SAM-e, TRT or both but I wish I would have started years sooner.

I was diagnosed with motherfucker gene mutation.

[anoxicblaze]

If I hadn’t started TRT I honestly believe I would have committed suicide. I was getting very close to that mindset. Now I’m not even slightly depressed...ever! for me, personally, trt worked better than the ssri’s. I think more people of my age (47) should try TRT before SSRI’s.


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[Beetlegeuse]

Low T (as a result of disruption of the HPG axis stemming from exposure to too many bomb blasts) has been identified as a factor in causing PTSD.

[CAADsprint]

After thinking it over I think I'm going to give it a shot. Two weeks of just HCG and arimadex nothing crazy then jump right in. Think of an 8-12 week cycle and jump right into trt. Think things over, buy some time see if it helps. Not concerned about pre bloodwork at this time but during and post not gonna lie. Want to choose Tbol but last time I wasn't a fan and anavar is to much. Boldenone out the window cause of anxiety. Worst case I'll honestly just start with Testosterone and just end up sticking to it since I have enough on the shelf for that

[GearHeaded]

After thinking it over I think I'm going to give it a shot. Two weeks of just HCG and arimadex

whats the point of this? look into it , in a lot of men AI's like arimidex cause mental problems to the point that some TRT docs won't even prescribe it. its one thing to consider taking it if your running 2 grams of test and need to keep E levels in some sort of range, but just to take it to take it with only HCG ,, I really don't see any point in this at all. your likely going to feel better with elevated estrogen levels , thats one of the benefits of injecting exogenous test is to get the estrogen conversion.

[Proximal]

After thinking it over I think I'm going to give it a shot. Two weeks of just HCG and arimadex nothing crazy then jump right in. Think of an 8-12 week cycle and jump right into trt. Think things over, buy some time see if it helps. Not concerned about pre bloodwork at this time but during and post not gonna lie. Want to choose Tbol but last time I wasn't a fan and anavar is to much. Boldenone out the window cause of anxiety. Worst case I'll honestly just start with Testosterone and just end up sticking to it since I have enough on the shelf for that

I have a lifelong history with anxiety & depression. Aside from some prescription meds, my relief comes in the form of drinking myself numb every night.

Test didn’t aggravate it, nor did var. Same with Adrol & Dbol .

But you want to have a very healthy respect for tren if you go that route. Even at mild doses, I was not the same person. Anxiety & depression definitely were aggravated. Despite the gains, happy I am off.

[Windex]

Double edged sword - can be a major life improvement coming from hypogondism. On the flip side, you can end up roller coastering when coming off cycle doses be worse off from what you started (most of which is due to psychological factors).

HRT requires a lot more than Test + HCG ; so if that is your intended protocol you are going to solve two issues but create 10 more.

AI's are worse than chemotherapy.

[956Vette]

Stay away from trenbolone .