27 y/o male lab results up for review

[GregJones]

Hi Everyone,

I've been feeling extremely strange in the last few months. I do regular bloodwork every few months but more recently every 1-2 months for randomly elevated CK levels. I'm up and down with CK ever since oct 2018. Doctors not sure whats going on but are suspecting by ruling out everything that i'm just one of those individuals who's healthy but with high CK levels. Now given that I've also been experiencing lots of random annoying feelings which I later have thought to be low testosterone.

Up until now, my test has been on the lower side of average. My doctor said it sucks but it isn't anything that he'd want to prescribe TRT for. Now I wish I had access to these numbers to post but I don't. I do have my most recent bloodwork which was done within the last 2 weeks. I'll attach them below, and let me know what you guys think.

My history:

27 y/o M, 210 (20-25% bf based on picture reference), 6'1''

27 y/0 male, been exercising seriously from 18-23, took a break around 24-25 due to some surgeries (unrelated to exercise), and again 25-26 was serious into exercise. From 26-27 i've been very on and off and mostly not feeling great and have no drive to exercise. I've been feeling very low, unable to sleep well, gaining fat, uninterested in a lot of things I was once very into, no drive to do music (my passion), and the worst of all, low sex drive.. something i've never experienced before.

exercise/nutrition wise for the last 2 months I've been exercising 4 times a week doing about 1hour of weights mostly including super sets to get the heart rate up, and i'll end with 15-20 mins on incline walk or stairmaster. I've also done 1-2 days of HIIT (hillsprints/jogs). I've been eating mostly well: brown rice medley (beans, chicken, and a score of veges), Salads, and fruits. I'm not counting my Cals but am eating less food than before, and higher quality foods.


I was hoping with a change in lifestyle and food I'd feel better. I've even been taking zink, ashwaganda, fish oils, vitamin c, preworkout, selenium, and I've lost 10 lbs but the lethargy, and feelings i've had before are all still here.

I've attached my labs below, i'm hoping maybe some experienced members here may be able to review my lab work and help point me in the right direction.

[kelkel]

Attachments aren't opening brother. At least for me....

[GregJones]

Attachments aren't opening brother. At least for me....

I'll write them out. Which ones would you like?

[kelkel]

Just try and re attach them first.

[Youthful55guy]

The files open for me, but they are a bit difficult to read.

Bottom line is that your T levels are on the low side but not horribly bad. In particular, your bioavailable T is in about the 40th percentile. Not great, but far from hypogonadal. At your age, I would not consider TRT. Once you turn down that road, it's difficult to turn back. I'd look into other aspects of health such as nutrition and exercise. However, if you do choose to go down the TRT road, be sure to educate yourself on how a good TRT protocol should be administered. I'd start with the "best Practices" sticky on the front page of the forum.

Keep in mind that most doctors do not understand how to administer a good TRT protocol. Judging by the units of your lab results, the look like they were generated outside of the USA. It's sad to say, but European docs know even less than US docs, and that's next to nothing. You will need to be your own advocate and figure out sourcing for a good and stable protocol. Remember this is a lifelong medication.

[Obs]

Have you had any injuries or sore muscles due to injury or excessive exercise within 96 hours of blood being drawn?

Any drinking in excess around the times the bloods were drawn?

Most of the out of range elements I see are easily eplained away by strenuous exercise or alcohol or both.

If you can get trt go for it. Get a script,do your own injections.

I have yet to meet the person that regretted trt done even halfway right. In fact most love it.

[GregJones]

Have you had any injuries or sore muscles due to injury or excessive exercise within 96 hours of blood being drawn?

Any drinking in excess around the times the bloods were drawn?

Most of the out of range elements I see are easily eplained away by strenuous exercise or alcohol or both.

If you can get trt go for it. Get a script,do your own injections.

I have yet to meet the person that regretted trt done even halfway right. In fact most love it.

Sorry for the late reply. Yes there was alcohol use during the time of this lab result and I believe I did do some exercise, nothing excessive vbut just normal exercise. I did however start a 250/week test cyp self injecting regiment, i believe you did help me a lot with my other post about PIP and redness etc.

[Obs]

Sorry for the late reply. Yes there was alcohol use during the time of this lab result and I believe I did do some exercise, nothing excessive vbut just normal exercise. I did however start a 250/week test cyp self injecting regiment, i believe you did help me a lot with my other post about PIP and redness etc.

I wouldnt be alarmed about it.
Its hard to say but it could have been a big contrubuting factor.

You could abstain from alcohol and be sure you are good and hydrated before getting bloods done next time.

Elevated CK can remain that way for 96 hours after stenuous exercise and drinking can elevate alt until you stop as well as many medications.

[Youthful55guy]

Sorry for the late reply. Yes there was alcohol use during the time of this lab result and I believe I did do some exercise, nothing excessive vbut just normal exercise. I did however start a 250/week test cyp self injecting regiment, i believe you did help me a lot with my other post about PIP and redness etc.

That's a huge dose of T. Way higher than you need for TRT and will have side effects down the road. In particular, you will always be battling high DHT, high E2 and high red blood cell production. Yes, there are drugs you can use to treat the side-effects, but they are difficult to administer and you need frequent labs to monitor the results.

Please see my very recent post for results of some recent labs. Granted, I have a different problem than you (high SHBG), but the labs show that you need less than half of what you are using for normal/high T levels. Also, you need to break the dose up into much smaller and more frequent dosing than weekly.

[Obs]

That's a huge dose of T. Way higher than you need for TRT and will have side effects down the road. In particular, you will always be battling high DHT, high E2 and high red blood cell production. Yes, there are drugs you can use to treat the side-effects, but they are difficult to administer and you need frequent labs to monitor the results.

Please see my very recent post for results of some recent labs. Granted, I have a different problem than you (high SHBG), but the labs show that you need less than half of what you are using for normal/high T levels. Also, you need to break the dose up into much smaller and more frequent dosing than weekly.

No its not and since you have never taken a high dosage of anything and think taking steroids for enhancement purposes is questionable... You should probably go to a natty forum and advise trt.

He is dosing more than once a week.

Btw... Any doseage of exogenous test will cause "sides down the road".

[Youthful55guy]

No its not and since you have never taken a high dosage of anything and think taking steroids for enhancement purposes is questionable... You should probably go to a natty forum and advise trt.

He is dosing more than once a week.

Btw... Any doseage of exogenous test will cause "sides down the road".

Not to belabor the discussion, but the subject of this forum is Hormone Replacement Therapy/Low T/Anti-Aging, not bodybuilding. The whole idea of TRT is to replace normal levels of testosterone. If one does this in a reasonable manner, side-effects are minimal. Most guys need far less than 250mg per week to restore normal healthy and sustainable T levels.

[Obs]

Not to belabor the discussion, but the subject of this forum is Hormone Replacement Therapy/Low T/Anti-Aging, not bodybuilding. The whole idea of TRT is to replace normal levels of testosterone. If one does this in a reasonable manner, side-effects are minimal. Most guys need far less than 250mg per week to restore normal healthy and sustainable T levels.

Most guys need far less...
So this is the basis for telling him he will have "sides down the road".

This is a small section of steroid.coms forums and we are mainly what you consider morally questionable criminals because we use for sports and musculature enhancements.

I dont like you.
Never will.

You need to take your vodka eye dropper shit and perfectly unnaturally flat hormone levels to "healtboards" and leave the higher dosage info to guys that have actually done it. Criminals like me as you would say.

[Youthful55guy]

Most guys need far less...
So this is the basis for telling him he will have "sides down the road".

This is a small section of steroid.coms forums and we are mainly what you consider morally questionable criminals because we use for sports and musculature enhancements.

I dont like you.
Never will.

You need to take your vodka eye dropper shit and perfectly unnaturally flat hormone levels to "healtboards" and leave the higher dosage info to guys that have actually done it. Criminals like me as you would say.

Wow! you've got some issues to work out. Good luck with that. Perhaps you might be happier posting in one of the other sub-forums you mention. let's not highjack this guys threads with personal insults.

[Obs]

Wow! you've got some issues to work out. Good luck with that. Perhaps you might be happier posting in one of the other sub-forums you mention. let's not highjack this guys threads with personal insults.

I have to come back once in a while to let everyone know you see us as criminals.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Sorry for the late reply. Yes there was alcohol use during the time of this lab result and I believe I did do some exercise, nothing excessive vbut just normal exercise. I did however start a 250/week test cyp self injecting regiment, i believe you did help me a lot with my other post about PIP and redness etc.

That’s my cruise dose as well. I split it up into 2 125mg injection every 3.5 days (Sunday morning/Wednesday evening). Not sure if you plan on cycling other compounds in, but coming from having low test, I’d say you’ll probably be pretty happy with your new results.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Btw... Any doseage of exogenous test will cause "sides down the road".

Don’t quote me on this, but if I remember right, Lewellyn included a medical study in his book “anabolics” where they determined 600mg a week was about the highest dose you could safely run pretty much indefinitely. The only real side effects was a bit of a hit to HDL cholesterol.

[Obs]

He is injecting 2x per week

[GearHeaded]

just a side note here - a friend of mine has been going to a local doctor (NOT an anti aging clinic or TRT clinic) for about 6 months now. the doctor has him on 400mg of test per week, achieving about 1700 ng/dl . this is doctor prescribed TRT. this is the actual dosage the doctor wants him running being my friend 'body builds' as a hobby.

now granite this is much higher then a "replacement" dosage. but none the less this is what the doctor is prescribing for the circumstances at hand and is legitimate TRT (my friend does not run gear, he only runs the TRT he is prescribed).
I know of another doctor who will prescribe up to 500mg of test per week for certain people. and has said that that is within reason and within the realm of maintaining good health.


not that I really care. just saying that there are doctors out that that prescribe "TRT" at much higher doses depending on the circumstances.. now sure a sedative 90 year old man may only get prescribed 100mg per week. but another patient may be prescribed much higher dosages and it still be within the realm of "TRT", being it is medically prescribed as such.

I believe that normal test levels on blood work like 20 years ago went up to like 1800 ng/dl .. recently its been lowered to like 900-1000. probably because the pusification of man over the last few decades and the trend that natural test levels just keep getting lower and lower. but 50 years ago a 1500 ng.dl may have been perfectly normal


theres a new trend out there in the medical community among progressive TRT docs.. called TOT , testosterone optimization therapy. its all about optimizing max levels of test for optimal results while still promoting good health, not just replacement levels

[Obs]

Don’t quote me on this, but if I remember right, Lewellyn included a medical study in his book “anabolics” where they determined 600mg a week was about the highest dose you could safely run pretty much indefinitely. The only real side effects was a bit of a hit to HDL cholesterol.

Yes I meant rather any exogenous amount causes sides. It interrupts negative feedback loops and it all must be accounted for. Tgere is sides to everything.

A guy that has never gone over trt dosage has no business telling people 250mg will be any worse than any amount.
I am no scientist but he thinks he is.

I dont know shit though I have shot more test in a werk than he will in a year.

I just ate a huge bite of cheesecake that was turned because of an out of date mix grandma made...

Jesus that took my breath away.

[GearHeaded]

^ having said that. as an AAS user/abuser .. when I'm off cycle I generally only cruise on 150mg of test per week, or sometimes no test at all . I think there are better compounds out there then test, and I choose to use those for the most part

[GearHeaded]

Yes I meant rather any exogenous amount causes sides. It interrupts negative feedback loops and it all must be accounted for. .

agree . nothing in life is "side effect free" . its all just a matter or weighing the risk vs rewards .. heck, drink too much water (which is supposed to be good for you) too late at night, and you have the risk the negative side effect of getting up to piss 5x in the middle of the night .
everything in life is a give and take

[GearHeaded]

even take the idea of doing TRT and taking multiple injections per week to keep "steady blood levels" ,, which is supposed to be a good thing, right. well fuck, your risk of getting an infection because your injecting 170 more times in the year then you normally would on a weekly injecting protocol. now times that times 20 years of being on TRT and you have like 3500 more injections, and 3500x the risk of infection , scar tissue build up etc..
theres a risk to everything

[Obs]

even take the idea of doing TRT and taking multiple injections per week to keep "steady blood levels" ,, which is supposed to be a good thing, right. well fuck, your risk of getting an infection because your injecting 170 more times in the year then you normally would on a weekly injecting protocol. now times that times 20 years of being on TRT and you have like 3500 more injections, and 3500x the risk of infection , scar tissue build up etc..
theres a risk to everything

The thing that gets me is the "vodka eye dropper AI" and perfect injections of 18.9765mg of test etc to maintain a perfect flat line of hormonal levels.

Well it sure wasnt intended that way.
Natural test has peaks and valley depending on stimulus, time of day, situation, adrenal release....

I dont really think a little dose of trt is that damn complicated that we need to take cut AI in vodka at just perfect doses.

I dont use AI and have ran shit damn high doses.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I believe that normal test levels on blood work like 20 years ago went up to like 1800 ng/dl .. recently its been lowered to like 900-1000. probably because the pusification of man over the last few decades and the trend that natural test levels just keep getting lower and lower. but 50 years ago a 1500 ng.dl may have been perfectly normal


theres a new trend out there in the medical community among progressive TRT docs.. called TOT , testosterone optimization therapy. its all about optimizing max levels of test for optimal results while still promoting good health, not just replacement levels

I’ve seen a few studies that indicate that our natural test levels have dropped off dramatically in the last hundred years or so. I remember taking cold showers and shit when I was younger (like a psychopath) because I read that warm water lowered testosterone, as does basically everything that makes you comfortable. Injections are so much easier...

[GearHeaded]

The thing that gets me is the "vodka eye dropper AI" and perfect injections of 18.9765mg of test etc to maintain a perfect flat line of hormonal levels.

Well it sure wasnt intended that way.
Natural test has peaks and valley depending on stimulus, time of day, situation, adrenal release....

I dont really think a little dose of trt is that damn complicated that we need to take cut AI in vodka at just perfect doses.

I dont use AI and have ran shit damn high doses.

yes , this is something I don't get about some guys on actual TRT . they say they feel like shit because they are 2 days late on their injection, or they think there estrogen my be 2 points higher then normal . how the hell can you feel that ! its all in your head!!

heck , I can get bored one day and go to my medicine cabinet and load up two syringes full of half empty bottles of gear, just to clean out the cabinet, and inject it ll at once (probably 5 different compounds).. then go 3 weeks and forget to even inject my 'trt' dose of test. and still feel damn fine.
I was suprised years back when I got blood work results back and my E levels were upper 200s . I was like "shit, I feel great" I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. fuck the numbers on a piece of paper .

I don't get how low low dose TRT guys can "feel" the smallest little change or a missed shot . its gotta be a 'head game'

[i_SLAM_cougars]

yes , this is something I don't get about some guys on actual TRT . they say they feel like shit because they are 2 days late on their injection, or they think there estrogen my be 2 points higher then normal . how the hell can you feel that ! its all in your head!!

heck , I can get bored one day and go to my medicine cabinet and load up two syringes full of half empty bottles of gear, just to clean out the cabinet, and inject it ll at once (probably 5 different compounds).. then go 3 weeks and forget to even inject my 'trt' dose of test. and still feel damn fine.
I was suprised years back when I got blood work results back and my E levels were upper 200s . I was like "shit, I feel great" I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. fuck the numbers on a piece of paper .

I don't get how low low dose TRT guys can "feel" the smallest little change or a missed shot . its gotta be a 'head game'

This is how scientific my AI use has ever been.

When my nipples get so sore that wearing a shirt hurts. .25mg of Adex. Problem solved.

[Obs]

yes , this is something I don't get about some guys on actual TRT . they say they feel like shit because they are 2 days late on their injection, or they think there estrogen my be 2 points higher then normal . how the hell can you feel that ! its all in your head!!

heck , I can get bored one day and go to my medicine cabinet and load up two syringes full of half empty bottles of gear, just to clean out the cabinet, and inject it ll at once (probably 5 different compounds).. then go 3 weeks and forget to even inject my 'trt' dose of test. and still feel damn fine.
I was suprised years back when I got blood work results back and my E levels were upper 200s . I was like "shit, I feel great" I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing. fuck the numbers on a piece of paper .

I don't get how low low dose TRT guys can "feel" the smallest little change or a missed shot . its gotta be a 'head game'

Yeah that sounds exactly like me.
I shot 750mg of tren E with some tren base couple days ago for the hell of it.
I am out now.
Will shoot a couple ml of 250mg deca later then I am out of that.

I have not been that affected by gear but for one time with insane doses of anadrol with tren and I had talked to you about that.

[Youthful55guy]

Hi Everyone,

I've been feeling extremely strange in the last few months. I do regular bloodwork every few months but more recently every 1-2 months for randomly elevated CK levels. I'm up and down with CK ever since oct 2018. Doctors not sure whats going on but are suspecting by ruling out everything that i'm just one of those individuals who's healthy but with high CK levels. Now given that I've also been experiencing lots of random annoying feelings which I later have thought to be low testosterone.

Up until now, my test has been on the lower side of average. My doctor said it sucks but it isn't anything that he'd want to prescribe TRT for. Now I wish I had access to these numbers to post but I don't. I do have my most recent bloodwork which was done within the last 2 weeks. I'll attach them below, and let me know what you guys think.

My history:

27 y/o M, 210 (20-25% bf based on picture reference), 6'1''

27 y/0 male, been exercising seriously from 18-23, took a break around 24-25 due to some surgeries (unrelated to exercise), and again 25-26 was serious into exercise. From 26-27 i've been very on and off and mostly not feeling great and have no drive to exercise. I've been feeling very low, unable to sleep well, gaining fat, uninterested in a lot of things I was once very into, no drive to do music (my passion), and the worst of all, low sex drive.. something i've never experienced before.

exercise/nutrition wise for the last 2 months I've been exercising 4 times a week doing about 1hour of weights mostly including super sets to get the heart rate up, and i'll end with 15-20 mins on incline walk or stairmaster. I've also done 1-2 days of HIIT (hillsprints/jogs). I've been eating mostly well: brown rice medley (beans, chicken, and a score of veges), Salads, and fruits. I'm not counting my Cals but am eating less food than before, and higher quality foods.


I was hoping with a change in lifestyle and food I'd feel better. I've even been taking zink, ashwaganda, fish oils, vitamin c, preworkout, selenium, and I've lost 10 lbs but the lethargy, and feelings i've had before are all still here.

I've attached my labs below, i'm hoping maybe some experienced members here may be able to review my lab work and help point me in the right direction.

I'd be interested in hearing from the OP. What are your goals? Are you looking for advice on administration of a sound testosterone replacement therapy protocol? Are you looking to enhance your physique with superphysiologic levels of T? As you can see in this thread, there are folks in this forum offering very different advice which is often rooted in their personal perspectives and goals.

[Obs]

I'd be interested in hearing from the OP. What are your goals? Are you looking for advice on administration of a sound testosterone replacement therapy protocol? Are you looking to enhance your physique with superphysiologic levels of T? As you can see in this thread, there are folks in this forum offering very different advice which is often rooted in their personal perspectives and goals.

Your advice is rooted in your personal opinion just like all.
Get of your high horse.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Incase anyone is on the fence with how to proceed I feel like this is a fine time to point out that AAS use has actually made my penis larger (as opposed to the odd myth that it makes it smaller). More blood = bigger dick

[Youthful55guy]

Your advice is rooted in your personal opinion just like all.
Get of your high horse.

Since you continue to highjack this thread with personal beratements of me, can you please explain the root of this deep seated anger? You seem to imply that I think of folks are a bunch of criminals. You've used that terms several times. Please provide me with a specific example of what I said that ever implied that think this way and I will profusely apologize to that individual. As it is now, you are simply an annoyance to everyone here who wishes to participate in a civil discussion.

[Obs]

Since you continue to highjack this thread with personal beratements of me, can you please explain the root of this deep seated anger? You seem to imply that I think of folks are a bunch of criminals. You've used that terms several times. Please provide me with a specific example of what I said that ever implied that think this way and I will profusely apologize to that individual. As it is now, you are simply an annoyance to everyone here who wishes to participate in a civil discussion.

The thread was taken down by the admin because you went crying like a bitch.
I called you out on it immediately.

I never forgot and never will.

[Obs]

Since you continue to highjack this thread with personal beratements of me, can you please explain the root of this deep seated anger? You seem to imply that I think of folks are a bunch of criminals. You've used that terms several times. Please provide me with a specific example of what I said that ever implied that think this way and I will profusely apologize to that individual. As it is now, you are simply an annoyance to everyone here who wishes to participate in a civil discussion.

You do not belong here and dont try to deny your bullshit.
You stay in the HRT section because you feel it disattaches you from criminal behaviors.

I assure you without us there would be no board.
You are a bastard hypocrite and I cannot stand you.

I don't hear anyone complaining but you about my choice of discussion. I gave this individual more advice regarding his bloodwork than you and in threads not in this section... Yeah, out there with the unholies and criminals like me.

I dont give a shit how many uncommon words you use to try sound intelligent with, you are just a dumbass with google on HRT.

You say the simplest things amd try to make them sound complicated. It gives you some sort of accomplished feeling I am sure.

You say we base on opinion...

Are you an endocrinologist?
Can you conduct a scientific study?
Do you have the accredations to do so?

No you don't and no you aren't. You are a dumbass with a keyboard.
So shut the fuck up with your holier than thou opinions.

[BG]

Easy now..........

[pfdept59]

Since you continue to highjack this thread with personal beratements of me, can you please explain the root of this deep seated anger? You seem to imply that I think of folks are a bunch of criminals. You've used that terms several times. Please provide me with a specific example of what I said that ever implied that think this way and I will profusely apologize to that individual. As it is now, you are simply an annoyance to everyone here who wishes to participate in a civil discussion.

Youthful55guy you were always very helpful with any TRT related questions I had,Thank you for all your help you are a valuable member of this forum

[Youthful55guy]

Youthful55guy you were always very helpful with any TRT related questions I had,Thank you for all your help you are a valuable member of this forum

Thanks! The guy obviously has some anger issues he needs to grapple with and for some reason has focused them on me. I'd like to stay on track with the discussions, but he is a distraction and an annoyance to the forum.

[Youthful55guy]

So, we have yet to hear from the OP as to his goals. Hoping to bring this discussion to a more civil and productive tone. Are you seeking long-term and sustainable testosterone replacement therapy (TRT), or are you looking for help with a blast and cruise protocol or something else? If it's long-term stable TRT, then I will continue to try and assist. If it's something else, I will leave you to hands of others who have experience with this sort of thing. I typically ignore threads where the latter is stated (or implied) up front and focus my efforts on those seeking medically necessary TRT, for which I have many years of experience.

Oh, if it's the latter, and contrary what may have been previously said, I typically say no judgement on my part, it's just that I have no experience to share.