Advice on first cycle after TRT

[bkris]

Hello everyone. This is my first question on this forum. I am 36 years old and just finished my second course of TRT - test cyp with my PCP. Dosage was one 75 mg/week for 10 weeks (first course was 50mg/week for 10 weeks). After the second course , lab shows total test as 544 ng/dl. I am feeling much better than I felt 24 weeks ago. However, I am after building muscle. At this point, I am trying to find if I should keep going with my PCP in order to get some serious muscle gains. Or should I do a test cycle with increased dose with my few years of training experience? Btw, I keep reading the stickies and posts on trt and cycles posted by members. Thanks to the the excellent knowledge sharing.

[almostgone]

I'm a little confused. Was your dosage raised by your Dr. from 50mg/week to 75mg/ week or are you doing this on your own?

Your goal with TRT is to get to a stable dosage and stay on a consistent, regular dosage like any other maintenance medication.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you have posted.

[bkris]

I'm a little confused. Was your dosage raised by your Dr. from 50mg/week to 75mg/ week or are you doing this on your own?

Your goal with TRT is to get to a stable dosage and stay on a consistent, regular dosage like any other maintenance medication.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you have posted.

Sorry I should have given the details. I wasn't taking the test cyp myself; it was under my PCP's direction. Before the first course, my total test was measured in 52 (yes, fifty two) ng/dl. My PCP (a proper MD) is being conservative and cautious about side effects, wanted to start slowly with dosage. So he started with 50 mg/week. After 10 weeks of course (and more changes in food/workout/lifestyle), it went up to 220 ng/dl. I did not have any noticeable side effects. For the second course, he decided to increase it to 75 mg and at the course (another 10 weeks), total test was measured at 544 ng/dl.
1. My PCP gave me option to continue after the second course (though we haven't discussed about the dose yet).
2. I have been training a bit over course of these 20 weeks, I am seeing some progress, in terms of muscle definition and increased strength (RBC count supports it). But, I think I have not gained muscle a lot . May be one or two lb for the past 24 weeks.

So, my question is, to gain some serious muscle, will 75mg/week help? Or I should increase this dose ?

I see Testosterone enanthate 500mg/week is recommended in several places (including the article on First cycle by austinite) along with hcg. Not sure if test cyp 75mg/week alone will help me to gain muscle.

[bkris]

I'm a little confused. Was your dosage raised by your Dr. from 50mg/week to 75mg/ week or are you doing this on your own?

Your goal with TRT is to get to a stable dosage and stay on a consistent, regular dosage like any other maintenance medication.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding what you have posted.

Sorry I should have given the details. I wasn't taking the test cyp myself; it was under my PCP's direction. Before the first course, my total test was measured in 52 (yes, fifty two) ng/dl. My PCP (a proper MD) is being conservative and cautious about side effects, wanted to start slowly with dosage. So he started with 50 mg/week. After 10 weeks of course (and more changes in food/workout/lifestyle), it went up to 220 ng/dl. I did not have any noticeable side effects. For the second course, he decided to increase it to 75 mg and at the course (another 10 weeks), total test was measured at 544 ng/dl.
1. My PCP gave me option to continue after the second course (though we haven't discussed about the dose yet).
2. I have been training a bit over course of these 20 weeks, I am seeing some progress, in terms of muscle definition and increased strength (RBC count supports it). But, I think I have not gained muscle a lot . May be one or two lb for the past 24 weeks.

So, my question is, to gain some serious muscle, will 75mg/week help? Or I should increase this dose ?

I see test en 500mg/week is recommended in several places (including the article on First cycle by austinite) along with h c g. Not sure if test cyp 75mg/week alone will help me to gain muscle.

[Gallowmere]

Sorry I should have given the details. I wasn't taking the test cyp myself; it was under my PCP's direction. Before the first course, my total test was measured in 52 (yes, fifty two) ng/dl. My PCP (a proper MD) is being conservative and cautious about side effects, wanted to start slowly with dosage. So he started with 50 mg/week. After 10 weeks of course (and more changes in food/workout/lifestyle), it went up to 220 ng/dl. I did not have any noticeable side effects. For the second course, he decided to increase it to 75 mg and at the course (another 10 weeks), total test was measured at 544 ng/dl.
1. My PCP gave me option to continue after the second course (though we haven't discussed about the dose yet).
2. I have been training a bit over course of these 20 weeks, I am seeing some progress, in terms of muscle definition and increased strength (RBC count supports it). But, I think I have not gained muscle a lot . May be one or two lb for the past 24 weeks.

So, my question is, to gain some serious muscle, will 75mg/week help? Or I should increase this dose ?

I see test en 500mg/week is recommended in several places (including the article on First cycle by austinite) along with h c g. Not sure if test cyp 75mg/week alone will help me to gain muscle.

Since you’re coming from a severely hypo state, 75 will definitely help. I was diagnosed in the same range you were (50-80 total) and got put on 100mg/week, which brought my total up to 890-970.
I stayed at this dose for a year before running my first cycle. It was like a whole new round of noob gains. I went from 165 lbs. to 175 in that year, and felt amazing compared to my old life.
After a year on TRT, I ran my first 600mg/week test cycle and got fantastic results. Shot up 30 lbs. and kept 20 of it after a year back on my TRT dosing.

I’d say give the TRT time to work before you start blasting. Yes, more will give you better results, but TRT isn’t all about building muscle. You have plenty of time for that later. Get your medicinal line dialed in first, before you start cramming in higher doses.

[GearHeaded]

keep your TRT dialed in. stick with it.. IF your thinking about a 'cycle' and you want to build a lot more muscle, your in a position where you can easily add an anabolic to the mix (testosterone is not an anabolic, its a naturally occurring androgen), rather then upping your test dosage and skewing your TRT.

stick with your TRT. add 25mg of Var per day and see how you do with that. its not going to F with your blood work or skew your TRT. or you could add a SARM , like LGD at 20mg per day. you'll get some muscle gains your looking for, add a lot of anabolic load yet not mess with your TRT protocols .

[bkris]

I went from 165 lbs. to 175 in that year, and felt amazing compared to my old life..

Do you mind asking what was your fat % before after the cycle? Any tips?

I’d say give the TRT time to work before you start blasting. Yes, more will give you better results, but TRT isn’t all about building muscle. You have plenty of time for that later. Get your medicinal line dialed in first, before you start cramming in higher doses.

Got it!!

[bkris]

keep your TRT dialed in. stick with it.. IF your thinking about a 'cycle' and you want to build a lot more muscle, your in a position where you can easily add an anabolic to the mix (testosterone is not an anabolic, its a naturally occurring androgen), rather then upping your test dosage and skewing your TRT.

stick with your TRT. add 25mg of Var per day and see how you do with that. its not going to F with your blood work or skew your TRT. or you could add a SARM , like LGD at 20mg per day. you'll get some muscle gains your looking for, add a lot of anabolic load yet not mess with your TRT protocols .

Sorry if this is a dumb question. Would that be a good idea to do the first cycle with var? I keep reading that beginners better start with test and h c g to avoid liver toxicity

[Youthful55guy]

Hello everyone. This is my first question on this forum. I am 36 years old and just finished my second course of TRT - test cyp with my PCP. Dosage was one 75 mg/week for 10 weeks (first course was 50mg/week for 10 weeks). After the second course , lab shows total test as 544 ng/dl. I am feeling much better than I felt 24 weeks ago. However, I am after building muscle. At this point, I am trying to find if I should keep going with my PCP in order to get some serious muscle gains. Or should I do a test cycle with increased dose with my few years of training experience? Btw, I keep reading the stickies and posts on trt and cycles posted by members. Thanks to the the excellent knowledge sharing.

A couple of thoughts.

Like almostgone, I too was confused about your goals when reading the thread title and the terminology you used. First, we generally do not use the term "cycle" when referring to TRT dosages. The term cycle is generally used by guys using T and other synthetic steroids for bodybuilding or athletic purposes. They use very large amounts (typically 300-500mg/wk) for several weeks and then stop for a period of time and restart another cycle. This helps them to prevent certain side-effects.

As per other advice given here, your goal with TRT is to attain stable T vales within normal ranges. Your starting dose of 50mg is somewhat low for that purpose, but given that you we severely hypogonadal, it's not surprising you felt better and did better in the gym with adding muscle. Your 75mg dose is also on the low side, but approach the dose most guys find will keep them in the normal range. Usually, most guys fid that a dose of about 100-120mg/week in divided doses will keep their T levels in a normal stable range. It is important to break the dose up into at least 2X doses per week (e.g., 50mg Monday and Friday). I much prefer an every 3 day protocol of about 40mg so that the intervals are constant.

I suggest you read the sticky thread at the top of the forum on "Best Practices in TRT". I tried to outline what is considered current state-of-the-art in TRT therapy and add in my own experience over the past 7 years. One thing that I think important to emphasize is that you should be using the Free T lab as your guide to adjusting the T dose. The bioavailable (loosely bound) T lab is also a good alternative is Free T is not available. Most doctors do not know this and will order the Total T lab. If your SHBG levels are not in the normal range (either high or low), The Total T lab can five you undependable results. It's only meant as a screening lab. I talk in more depth on this subject in the "best Practices" thread.

In answer to your question as to whether more T will help you gain muscle faster. If you are working out intelligently and have good nutrition, then the answer is an unqualified Yes. But the higher you go on the T dose, the more likely you will encounter side-effects. What is important is that find a dose that gets and keeps your T levels within the normal range to help minimize side-effects. It's been my experience that they will be minimal (if any) if you do this.

You also mentioned reading that a starting dose of 500mg/week was mentioned somewhere else in the forum. This points out another issue that you need to be very careful of in this and other forums. That is, you have to understand the perspective of the individual making the post. No doubt that person's perspective was for bodybuilding/athletic enhancement, and I can't argue with that advice for that objective. There is no doubt that more T will make it easier to recover faster from workouts and thus gain muscle faster. That's a fact, but you have side-effects to deal with. However, is your objective bodybuilding or feeling normal and gaining muscle at a normal rate (for a guy working out)? Only you can answer that question.

[GearHeaded]

Sorry if this is a dumb question. Would that be a good idea to do the first cycle with var? I keep reading that beginners better start with test and h c g to avoid liver toxicity

well your already on test cause your on TRT.. the reason some guys should avoid 'var only' cycles as a first cycle is because they will shut down their natty test production. again, your natty test production is already shut down cause your on TRT.
so in your situation, something like VAR is far more optimal. VAR is 6x more anabolic then test, yet carries with it half the side effects.
Var is not a 'toxic' AAS. Var is readily prescribed to women, the elderly, and men, for a multiple of health promoting benefits.
Var is even prescribed at low dosage to treat alcoholic liver disease and help the liver heal (so the idea that Var is liver toxic at low dosage is utter BS).

saying all that , just to be straight forward, I'm not a fan of Test only cycles. I think there are far better options with better benefits and less side effects. far more better drugs have come around since test.
its like driving an old model T ford with a crank start compared to driving a new smart car Tesla.. I'm teaching my kid to drive in the Tesla with all the safety features built in and not teaching them in the old Ford.
things like Var and Primo are so much more advanced and safer then high dose test only cycles

I personally think 'test only' cycles are more reserved for advanced AAS users and should not be used on a first cycle .
but I also think 'bang for your buck' Test by itself isn't shit and doesn't work like an anabolic steroid until you get to the 1000+mg a week dosage.
most of my test usage is simply being utilized to get the estrogen from it. nothing more

[Gallowmere]

Do you mind asking what was your fat % before after the cycle? Any tips?


Got it!!

Hell if I know. I don’t track bodyfat. So long as I can see my abs and my weight and lifts are shooting up, I’m happy. Trying to track bodyfat on the cycles I run is pointless. With test only, or what I’m on now (test/deca/dbol), you’ll hold so much extracellular fluid that all measurements will lie to you. Dexa will read low (because water isn’t fat) and calipers will run high (because the water is making the skin bulge).

[GearHeaded]

A couple of thoughts.

Like almostgone, I too was confused about your goals when reading the thread title and the terminology you used. First, we generally do not use the term "cycle" when referring to TRT dosages. The term cycle is generally used by guys using T and other synthetic steroids for bodybuilding or athletic purposes. They use very large amounts (typically 300-500mg/wk) for several weeks and then stop for a period of time and restart another cycle. This helps them to prevent certain side-effects.

As per other advice given here, your goal with TRT is to attain stable T vales within normal ranges. Your starting dose of 50mg is somewhat low for that purpose, but given that you we severely hypogonadal, it's not surprising you felt better and did better in the gym with adding muscle. Your 75mg dose is also on the low side, but approach the dose most guys find will keep them in the normal range. Usually, most guys fid that a dose of about 100-120mg/week in divided doses will keep their T levels in a normal stable range. It is important to break the dose up into at least 2X doses per week (e.g., 50mg Monday and Friday). I much prefer an every 3 day protocol of about 40mg so that the intervals are constant.

I suggest you read the sticky thread at the top of the forum on "Best Practices in TRT". I tried to outline what is considered current state-of-the-art in TRT therapy and add in my own experience over the past 7 years. One thing that I think important to emphasize is that you should be using the Free T lab as your guide to adjusting the T dose. The bioavailable (loosely bound) T lab is also a good alternative is Free T is not available. Most doctors do not know this and will order the Total T lab. If your SHBG levels are not in the normal range (either high or low), The Total T lab can five you undependable results. It's only meant as a screening lab. I talk in more depth on this subject in the "best Practices" thread.

In answer to your question as to whether more T will help you gain muscle faster. If you are working out intelligently and have good nutrition, then the answer is an unqualified Yes. But the higher you go on the T dose, the more likely you will encounter side-effects. What is important is that find a dose that gets and keeps your T levels within the normal range to help minimize side-effects. It's been my experience that they will be minimal (if any) if you do this.

You also mentioned reading that a starting dose of 500mg/week was mentioned somewhere else in the forum. This points out another issue that you need to be very careful of in this and other forums. That is, you have to understand the perspective of the individual making the post. No doubt that person's perspective was for bodybuilding/athletic enhancement, and I can't argue with that advice for that objective. There is no doubt that more T will make it easier to recover faster from workouts and thus gain muscle faster. That's a fact, but you have side-effects to deal with. However, is your objective bodybuilding or feeling normal and gaining muscle at a normal rate (for a guy working out)? Only you can answer that question.

just to add a point to this .

the increase in muscle growth is not linear in pattern to the increase in tesosterone levels. meaning that If your test levels are at say 400 ng/dl and you increase that to 800 ng/dl , that does not mean your muscle building capacity has increased double , in fact your muscle building capacity may not of increased at all even if your test levels go way up.

I know a guy I trained in the past who was skinny fat at 145 pounds and could barely machine press one plate a side yet had 850 test levels. yet my wife who has 40 ng/dl test levels can press two plates a side like its nothing and carries more muscle mass then him. yet he has 20x the test levels.

again , increasing test levels is not linear in progression to increasing muscle and strength. also why natty test boosters do nothing for performance.

in order to 'turn on' the switch for muscle building with testosterone for a guy you have to get to supra physiological levels. you have to shock the body. your levels have to go from say 400 one day to 8000 a few weeks later. then the switch is turned on and you start building a lot more muscle with test.
just raising you test levels some isn't going to do shit for bodybuilding purposes . just going from 150mg of test per week on TRT to 300mg as your 'blast' isn't crap. if you do gain anything its just a little bit of glycogen, water, and bloat.

you either need to get to high supraphysioligial levels of test or run actual anabolic steroids

[bkris]

Like almostgone, I too was confused about your goals when reading the thread title and the terminology you used. First, we generally do not use the term "cycle" when referring to TRT dosages.

I used the term "cycle" in the anabolic context. Though I am in TRT, I wanted to start cycle. If anabolics can keep my t level good and help me gain good muscle, why should I continue TRT? This was the thought process.

However, is your objective bodybuilding or feeling normal and gaining muscle at a normal rate (for a guy working out)? Only you can answer that question.

My aim is bodybuilding but trying to be careful about bringing my endocrine system back to normal as well.