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Thread: Enclomiphene Information

  1. #1
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    Enclomiphene Information

    Enclomiphene – everything I could find and you didn’t know you wanted

    Summary
    All the good things about Clomid, none of the bad things.

    You suffer from secondary hypogonadism and want to boost Testosterone production AND maintain fertility AND feel like you are 22 again? Enclomiphene to the rescue!

    That is generally how enclomiphene is discussed today. To be honest, on paper, it does look promising in the area of male AAS PCT and HRT. I’m going to share what I have found on this compound, though note that very little of this is actual “research”, more of a collection of information that I have acquired.


    Audience
    This information will be of interest to 3 groups of people.
    1 – Those who cycle and PCT and don’t like Clomid
    2 – Those who are using Clomid as HRT
    3 – General lab rats


    What is enclomiphene?
    To answer this question, we need to take a closer look at Clomid. We all know what that is: a particularly useful SERM with regard to HPTA restart, but with some negatives. Let’s dive a little deeper into the drug, though.

    Clomid is actually made of two drugs: enclomiphene and zuclomiphene. Enclomiphene is the SERM we are looking for: it blocks the estrogen receptors and thus encourages the release of LH. Zuclomiphene is an estrogenic compound. Some studies have found that it actually LOWERS testosterone in males. Clomid is 5/8ths enclomiphene and 3/8ths zuclomiphene. It doesn’t require a great leap to realize that we want more enclo and less (preferably no) zuclo. In fact, if we could isolate just the enclomiphene molecule, our overall dose could be less. Rather than taking 100mg of clomid, we could take roughly 60 to 65mg of enclomiphene. Same positive effects, with minimal to no negatives.

    While this is a high-level summary, it should be sufficient to illustrate, at least within the context of this discussion, that:
    Enclomiphene is the “good”
    Zuclomiphene is the “bad”

    I generally hate such simplistic tags, but they work here. If we were looking at these components in a different context (such as female fertility, one of the on-label uses of Clomid), then those terms wouldn’t work.


    History
    There has been a lot of chatter lately regarding enclomiphene. This might make us think that it is a new molecule, but that is false. As mentioned, it has been part of Clomid since Clomid was introduced. In addition, it has been in US FDA trials under the trade name “Androxal”. The few studies that have been conducted on it indicate that it is as effective at HPTA boosting as Clomid, minus any significant reported sides.

    It should be mentioned that people will sometimes say “yeah, well, the FDA rejected one of the Androxal studies”. The goal with statements like this is to make us believe that Androxal is not safe. The evidence does not justify this conclusion. The study was rejected before it was implemented due to a technical issue with the methodology and reporting, NOT because of anything to do with the drug itself. I have yet to determine the specifics of this, but they do not seem particularly meaningful for our purposes.


    Availability
    Currently (late 2021) in the US, enclomiphene is only available as a research chemical or a compounded drug. Trials of Androxal seem to have stalled. There may be several reasons for this. Primarily, the drug has changed hands several times – the new owners may simply not be interested in pursuing it. In addition, and this is conjecture on my part, the ready availability of Testosterone as a “first choice” for male HRT may erode the perceived market value of enclomiphene.


    Outstanding concerns
    Questions arise about the safety of long term SERM use in males. I can't speak to that. I do believe that many of the negatives of SERMs (particularly Clomid) are associated with the high doses frequently encountered in PCT, extended for longer periods of time.

    Note that I can not as yet personally claim that enclomiphene works as indicated. That will require experimentation not covered here.


    Disclaimer
    I am not a doctor, research scientist, or even a chemistry student. I am also not affiliated in any way with any company producing, competing with, or marketing any of these compounds. Please do consider this information with those facts in mind.


    References

    https://www.drugs.com/history/androxal.html

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01386606

    https://newyork.legalexaminer.com/he...osterone-drug/

    https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0...521-3/fulltext

    https://www.endocrineweb.com/profess...le-preserving-

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/arlenew...h=89f4275c17dc
    Last edited by Cylon357; 12-11-2021 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Added reference links

  2. #2
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    One side bar on studies: always follow the money and always check the data carefully. Companies have a financial interest in seeing their products to market, so they may fund studies that look for certain things while glossing over others. In addition, data can be presented in a way that gives us false impressions.

    Letís consider a made-up example with some entirely made up numbers.

    Company XYZ releases a study indicating that drug A reduces the risk of heart attack in healthy individuals by 50%. This seems like a big deal. What they may not say is that the risk of heart attack in healthy individuals is only .02%. That is two one hundredths of one percent. The drug in question reduces that to .01%. Is that even meaningful? No, not really, because the risk was tiny to begin with. What difference does it make if you cut it in half? The company hasnít lied, they have just used numbers to distort the data.

    Additionally, Company XYZ may have spent millions, maybe 10s of millions or more, of dollars developing drug A. They have an economic interest in getting the drug to market so they can make some of that money back.

    In other words, Big Pharma is driven by profit, not charity. That isn't a bad thing by itself, but does help illustrate why we need to keep a healthy level of concern and skepticism.
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    Thank you for that simple explanation. I always try to do the quick math in my head when companies (sales & marketing be it for medication, investing, financing etc) use % as their sales pitch. Like you said, usually it works out to very little or nothing. 300% increase of $0.10 is still only $0.30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    Thank you for that simple explanation. I always try to do the quick math in my head when companies (sales & marketing be it for medication, investing, financing etc) use % as their sales pitch. Like you said, usually it works out to very little or nothing. 300% increase of $0.10 is still only $0.30
    I think Mark Twain is credited with the saying that goes something like "There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics". Never truer than in situations like this lol! No one is exactly lying in those situations, but they aren't really giving us the full truth, either.

    Makes me suspicious when people use percentages, especially bad when comparing one item to another.

    Aargh, I could go off on a tangent, but yeah basically, check the raw numbers.
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    An update to this, that I may have covered elsewhere but wanted to park in a single place.

    I could not make SERM based HRT work, even with TMC supplied Enclo. The enclo from Tailor Made caused inflammation and dried out my joints... I have heard other people say that they thought Enclo MIGHT have some AI properties. I don't know that I would go that far, as my E2 was slightly over range at 31 with 29 top of range, but it had enough issues that I opted to drop it and go to test cream (the 20% compounded "good stuff") with hcg as my main hrt.
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    If you do decide to explore the use of Enclomiphene, either as HRT or PCT, let me save you some steps. These are the vendors I have tried, with my general thoughts on them.

    NOTE THAT THESE ARE JUST VENDOR NAMES, NO URLS OR CONTACT INFO. YOU WILL HAVE TO USE YOUR GOOGLE SKILLS TO FIND WHERE / HOW TO PURCHASE.

    Also be aware that I did not pull blood work on any of these except the TMC enclo. I use my experience with US Pharma Clomid as my yard stick to rate these products, so be advised that this is subjective and just one man's opinion.

    Good
    Receptor Chem
    Amino Asylum
    Tailor Made Compounding*

    Bad
    Peptides Warehouse
    Express PCT

    Unknown
    Brain Labz

    Proceed With Caution
    PureRawz


    Details

    Good
    All 3 of these vendors provide what I believe to be legit enclomiphene. TMC will require a prescription, the other two are research chem places. What I got from TMC caused inflammation, I suspect a binder rather than enclomiphene itself. TMCs enclo also had an orange'ish tint to it when I broke open one of the capsules. It looked like baby aspirin.

    Both RC and AA's enclomiphene is in a liquid form. RC's blends completely, AA's needs to be shaken before use. AA's looks exactly how TMC's did when I mixed it with some PGA to try to make a liquid. Once they settle, the enclomiphene tends to go towards the bottom and looks like a layer of clouds, with the rest of the solvent clear above it. Imagine flying in a jet over the clouds. That is what they look like. RC's did not look like this, it was completely blended and clear.


    Bad
    I suspect both of these were just clomid relabeled as enclomiphene. In fact, Express PCT, when they were in business, acknowledged that their provider just shipped them overdosed clomid.


    Unknown
    I have yet to try Brain Labz product. Note that they ship in stealth bottles. That freaked me out at first as the bottle they sent was an aspirin bottle or something like that. There was some good press on their product, so I bought it. I may never try it now, eh, that's the way it goes sometimes.


    Proceed With Caution
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    Update - there is a new enclomiphene producer, one some of us might have used for other things: Deus Medical.

    I will post more here as I know more.

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    Thank you for this post. Def. looking into it in replace of Clomid.
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    Just re-read this. Really a great, informative post!
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    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    Umbrella Labs markets enclomiphene as a research product. My TRT clinic (Royal Men's Medical Center) has decided to switch to Clomid in place of Gonadorelin, which they had used in place of HCG . I don't like what I've read about Clomid. Thinking of discontuing with them because of this latest switch. Any thoughts on this other than my own will be appreciated. Thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornish View Post
    Umbrella Labs markets enclomiphene as a research product. My TRT clinic (Royal Men's Medical Center) has decided to switch to Clomid in place of Gonadorelin, which they had used in place of HCG . I don't like what I've read about Clomid. Thinking of discontuing with them because of this latest switch. Any thoughts on this other than my own will be appreciated. Thanks.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
    Reason for the post is that if I drop them, I'm thinking of doing my own TRT with the incorporation of enclomiphene into the protocol.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornish View Post
    Reason for the post is that if I drop them, I'm thinking of doing my own TRT with the incorporation of enclomiphene into the protocol.

    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
    Even vendor that I have mentioned here produces "research chemicals" except Taylor Made and Deus Medical. That is how they skirt the laws regarding producing pharmaceutical drugs without massive regulation (at least in the US).

    I'm not 100% sold on the idea of clomid / enclomiphene as a replacement for HCG in the presence of exogenous testosterone , either as injections or topicals. Many clinics / docs do it, but I've not seen bloodwork on it nor tried it myself. The general thinking seems to be that the testosterone will overwhelm the SERM, thus rendering it wasted. I don't have the hard data on that.

    If you wanted to do SERM based HRT, (or to incorporate a SERM in place of HCG), then I would absolutely recommend enclomiphene over clomid.

    Umbrella has yet to let me down, though I did not try their enclo.

    As a follow up to a previous comment, I did try Deus and believe it to be legit, but opted to return to the needle. I like the ability to blast and cruise / add another compound from time to time.
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