TRT with a NPP/Anavar and then a Dianabol blast, at 64 year old

**fossil** · 02-23-2022, 08:01 PM

In hopes I can help another old timer by posting my progress and any issues I may encounter while blasting.
First off, I am 64, been on TRT for around 15 years. I get my BW every 4 months.
5'10"
208lbs
A little over a year ago I added a little NPP to my test cyp to see if it would help with joint pain.
At that time I was using 200/mg week(28mg/day) of test cyp and tried 100mg(15mg/day) of NPP, following the 2:1 ratio I read about. In fact, I read that from an article about adding NPP by my old endo, Larry Lipshultz, the results sounded like something I might benefit from. Then I figured why not also try one of the safer PEDs out there, Anavar , just to see what it would do for me. I started with 10/mg a day and I think I gradually ended up at 40/day. I was wanting to stay at a very low dose, and hoping to get some strength out of it, without gaining much weight. It sorta did that, not much strength, but a little stamina increase along with bringing out my vascularity. Jeez, I had veins poping out of my chest I never knew I had, and arm veins got way way more pronounced. All that was fun, but I was looking for strength. I think I was way underdosed to make good gains. Better safe than sorry I guess.
So this time I decided to try Dianabol instead of Anavar. I started 4 days ago with 10mg/day. I have been to the end of the internet reading all the dosage info and cycle length I can and have decided to do 8 weeks.
My goal is to stay under 220lbs and get my bench up to 385+ from 350.
First week at 10mg, second through sixth weeks at 20mg, and to finish the last two weeks at 30mg/day. I may or may not throw in the NPP, but to tell the truth, I really didn't notice the joint pain relief everyone talks about. I still have to take one 75mg diclofenac the night before I bench just so the pain is bearable. Crazy I know, but I really want to take a few bench press records before I fade away. If anyone is interested, I will make weekly posts on my progress and any issues I may have. I may be in uncharted territory, I mean an old fart taking Dianabol!!
When I was in my early 20s, I did go through a few cycles of Dianabol only(yeah, back then we didn't know better(plus we drank a lot of beer!)) and it was GREAT. I mean size and strength gains were amazing. Probably Ciba brand, little blue pills came in a square bottle. Probably 5mgs and I don't think I ever took more than 4. The old start at one, double that the next week, then double that for the next two weeks, then the reverse coming down.
If I can help out any other old guys I'd be glad to.

**Iranon** · 02-23-2022, 08:08 PM

As someone who has trained for over 40 years, and is 10 years your junior it is scary to see a man my age or older pushing harsh drugs over safer and do max lifts. Time to be safe, be healthy and realize no records exist for us because the young guys own all the real records.

Oral steroids are for contest prep only, and over 40 they have no place in our life.

Good luck, be safe.

**fossil** · 02-23-2022, 09:49 PM

Yeah, I hear you....
I have been working out since I was 20, and besides the few cycles I did at around my mid 20s, I have stayed natural. But, about 10 years or so ago, I started competing in USPA and APF meets and the competition is what keeps me in the gym . I will monitor my bloods closely every 2 months, and if I don't stray from my dosage plan, I think I will be OK. Taking TUDCA and Milk Thistle. We shall see. The hard part is for those 8 weeks, NO BEER!!! I just have a few months before I turn 65 and need to take the USPA Texas 220lb 60-64 record. Then on to the state, national, and world records for 65-70.

**Iranon** · 02-23-2022, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by fossil

Yeah, I hear you....
I have been working out since I was 20, and besides the few cycles I did at around my mid 20s, I have stayed natural. But, about 10 years or so ago, I started competing in USPA and APF meets and the competition is what keeps me in the gym . I will monitor my bloods closely every 2 months, and if I don't stray from my dosage plan, I think I will be OK. Taking TUDCA and Milk Thistle. We shall see. The hard part is for those 8 weeks, NO BEER!!! I just have a few months before I turn 65 and need to take the USPA Texas 220lb 60-64 record. Then on to the state, national, and world records for 65-70.

Great response, total respect. I am not judging or shaming you, hell I am clearly no different in what I do or think. I just want you to hear the opinion of someone close enough to your age who has also trained for 40+ years and has unfinished business and goals.

Just be as safe as possible and more then the rest realize how amazing you are for your age, revel in it and try to make it last for as many years as you can safely.

**Quester** · 02-23-2022, 10:57 PM

Fuck Yeah!!!

**wango** · 02-24-2022, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by fossil

In hopes I can help another old timer by posting my progress and any issues I may encounter while blasting.
First off, I am 64, been on TRT for around 15 years. I get my BW every 4 months.
5'10"
208lbs
A little over a year ago I added a little NPP to my test cyp to see if it would help with joint pain.
At that time I was using 200/mg week(28mg/day) of test cyp and tried 100mg(15mg/day) of NPP, following the 2:1 ratio I read about. In fact, I read that from an article about adding NPP by my old endo, Larry Lipshultz, the results sounded like something I might benefit from. Then I figured why not also try one of the safer PEDs out there, Anavar , just to see what it would do for me. I started with 10/mg a day and I think I gradually ended up at 40/day. I was wanting to stay at a very low dose, and hoping to get some strength out of it, without gaining much weight. It sorta did that, not much strength, but a little stamina increase along with bringing out my vascularity. Jeez, I had veins poping out of my chest I never knew I had, and arm veins got way way more pronounced. All that was fun, but I was looking for strength. I think I was way underdosed to make good gains. Better safe than sorry I guess.
So this time I decided to try Dianabol instead of Anavar. I started 4 days ago with 10mg/day. I have been to the end of the internet reading all the dosage info and cycle length I can and have decided to do 8 weeks.
My goal is to stay under 220lbs and get my bench up to 385+ from 350.
First week at 10mg, second through sixth weeks at 20mg, and to finish the last two weeks at 30mg/day. I may or may not throw in the NPP, but to tell the truth, I really didn't notice the joint pain relief everyone talks about. I still have to take one 75mg diclofenac the night before I bench just so the pain is bearable. Crazy I know, but I really want to take a few bench press records before I fade away. If anyone is interested, I will make weekly posts on my progress and any issues I may have. I may be in uncharted territory, I mean an old fart taking Dianabol!!
When I was in my early 20s, I did go through a few cycles of Dianabol only(yeah, back then we didn't know better(plus we drank a lot of beer!)) and it was GREAT. I mean size and strength gains were amazing. Probably Ciba brand, little blue pills came in a square bottle. Probably 5mgs and I don't think I ever took more than 4. The old start at one, double that the next week, then double that for the next two weeks, then the reverse coming down.
If I can help out any other old guys I'd be glad to.

Welcome fossil. I’ve been on TRT for 7 years and will be 64 in a couple of months. Gym rat since my teens, so just about at 50 years in the gym.

I had great experience with Anavar & might try again, however also loved tren (both were involved in a cycle just pre-Covid in 2019). I kept my dosages low & had no issues (despite drinking every night). I too loved seeing some vascularity at my overly ripe old age. I liked my strength gains with Dbol (got a little with var), but was not a fan of the water retention.

Barring any orthopedic issues, I’d say if you approached your max lifts intelligently; then best of luck. One of my best buddies at work was benching & deadlifting in the 400’s and he was in his 50’s. Regrettably he passed from Covid, I miss that dude.

Ever try HGH? The stuff is really nice, even at 1 iu/day.

It would be great if you did start a thread in the accountability section. I personally would love keeping track of your progress.

Again, welcome.

**fossil** · 02-24-2022, 09:07 PM

Iranon, I do appreciate the concern. I mean, maybe I am not thinking straight or a little senile, but damn it, I am gonna give this a semi-sane try. Heck, sometimes my wife can talk me out of some crazy idea I have and later I thank her. It happens.
wango, Dunno why I have not tried HGH, but now that you mention it, I will seriously consider it. I was reading about peptides and almost went for it, but then read that if you are SURE you are cancer free, it's good, but if somewhere you have a little spot of any kind, peptides will take that and run with it. Who knows at my age for sure with all the crazy shit I have done. Working in many petrochemical plants, fighting fires in garages with who knows what was smoldering, and some personal chemical experimentation along the way.
Thanks guys and I will start a thread in the accountability section as soon as I have anything worth mentioning and make an entry here when I do. I do have to say, only day 5 of 10mg Dbol and my vascularity is back to where it was after 3 or 4 weeks of Var. Maybe I am just pushing it a little harder because I know I am on.

**Test Monsterone** · 03-01-2022, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Iranon

As someone who has trained for over 40 years, and is 10 years your junior it is scary to see a man my age or older pushing harsh drugs over safer and do max lifts. Time to be safe, be healthy and realize no records exist for us because the young guys own all the real records.

Oral steroids are for contest prep only, and over 40 they have no place in our life.

Good luck, be safe.

I agree. Man I’m younger than you guys but I know my heavy lifting days are over. Between a leaky mitral valve and injuries, I’m over the heavy game. I got a garage gym setup with a cable machine and some free weights, but I have been doing more and more machine exercises over the years. I actually get better results than going heavy on barbells/dumbbells. For example if I’m doing dumbbell chest presses, I feel most of the weight in my elbows and shoulders. When I’m doing cables, I get a crazy chest pump and I’m sore as hell the next day. Since the transition to mostly machines, I have been able to get rid of most of my nagging joint pains. I used have the mentality of “free weights and heavy” or go home, but glad I grew up.

It’s surprising to see a guy in his mid 60s benching that much, Fossil. Respect for the grind. I would skip the GH, unless you’re deficient. Juice probably not worth the squeeze and, as you said, it can cause more problems than it solves. If you go through with it, good luck in your endeavors and stay healthy. Watch your BP.

**wellshii** · 03-07-2022, 01:34 AM

Personally I would opt for bpc-157 and hgh (if you can get it from a clinic)
Injuries go away like my savings account after divorce on bpc.
Havnt tried hgh yet though but am going to in the future

**fossil** · 03-08-2022, 09:34 PM

wellshii,
Man, I just read articles about bpc-157. Sounds like magic. I am a little standoffish on peptides, but do read a lots of good things. I have to take one 75mg diclofenac sodium the night before my heavy bench day, or my shoulder and elbow will prevent me from benching. I can live with the pain on other days. I am close to giving it a try. Do you inject or take the orals?

**wango** · 03-09-2022, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by fossil

wellshii,
Man, I just read articles about bpc-157. Sounds like magic. I am a little standoffish on peptides, but do read a lots of good things. I have to take one 75mg diclofenac sodium the night before my heavy bench day, or my shoulder and elbow will prevent me from benching. I can live with the pain on other days. I am close to giving it a try. Do you inject or take the orals?

My .02 (forgive me, I’m a retired physical therapist). I’m not for anything that masks pain during exercise (including deca ). The pain is telling you something and it’s there for a reason. This only gets more important as we get older. If your shoulder pain is preventing you from benching, listen to your shoulder not mask the pain with chemicals so you can do more damage to it.

**fossil** · 03-13-2022, 08:46 PM

wango,
Man, I know you speak words of wisdom. And I really should heed the advice, but I guess I am a little off, always have been. In fact, I am going to, in about 1 year. My ortho doc said my shoulders both showing signs of separation from the years of benching, and there isn't much he can do. not bad enough for a shoulder replacement yet, and even if I could, benching days would be over for sure. Next year I am going to scale back, and get back to benching equipped, which may hold my shoulder in place, in theory anyway. Here I am retired, and like I had planned many years ago, dedicate myself to working out, getting 10 hours of sleep every night, and no stress whatsoever. I didn't count on all these annoyances!! I used to have fun hobbies, like fishing, camping, and long motorcycle rides, but come to find out, there seems to be way more work involved in these activities than there used to be!!!! WTF? The only hobby now is about an hour and a half every other day at the gym.
If only I could have my 45 year old joints back.

**wango** · 03-14-2022, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by fossil

wango,
Man, I know you speak words of wisdom. And I really should heed the advice, but I guess I am a little off, always have been. In fact, I am going to, in about 1 year. My ortho doc said my shoulders both showing signs of separation from the years of benching, and there isn't much he can do. not bad enough for a shoulder replacement yet, and even if I could, benching days would be over for sure. Next year I am going to scale back, and get back to benching equipped, which may hold my shoulder in place, in theory anyway. Here I am retired, and like I had planned many years ago, dedicate myself to working out, getting 10 hours of sleep every night, and no stress whatsoever. I didn't count on all these annoyances!! I used to have fun hobbies, like fishing, camping, and long motorcycle rides, but come to find out, there seems to be way more work involved in these activities than there used to be!!!! WTF? The only hobby now is about an hour and a half every other day at the gym.
If only I could have my 45 year old joints back.

Just drinking my morning coffee and the wife and I commented how if we were at work, this would be one of the worst weeks of the year because of the time change. We both retired a year ago.

I had to stop shooting a basketball all together recently (that was truly an art I had worked my whole life at & it really was a thing of beauty), because I can barely lift my arms above my shoulders. Sadly, I am arranging to have the backboard removed from above the garage. About 6 months ago I realized that brushing my hair with my good shoulder was suddenly changed.

If it weren’t for such a variety of machines and cable set ups at the gym, not a chance in hell would I be able to go there.

Sorry for the sob story, but my point is, I %1000 percent understand & agree with you. It’s funny that you should mention 45 year old joints. Seriously, just to have what I had then or in my early-mid fifties would be a game changer. Yup and sometimes just activities that used to be fun are exhausting.

So my advice is retracted for guys like ourselves. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that with more time shoulder replacements will be as run of the mill as my hips were.

**fossil** · 04-14-2022, 10:22 PM

Just to finish my cycle and results off. Well, I ended up going to 40mg of dbol for my last two weeks of a 6 week cycle. I got nothing. No weight gain, no strength gain to mention(maybe 10lbs on bench). No sides I can tell, no lower back pump, and no aggression. Disappointing. I pulled out of my meet. I am gonna throw caution to the wind and am gonna try
My same 200mg of test
500-600 of deca , may include 200 of NPP for the first 4 weeks as well, then drop it.
50mg of a different brand of dbol for 8 weeks somewhere in this total 12 week cycle of deca.
I heard keeping your test at regular TRT levels and going with 500-600 of deca is a magic combo, redz mentioned that on another thread and it sounds good to me.
I am now wondering if because I have been on 200mg of test for so many years, that maybe, just maybe, my body needs a higher dose of other PEDs? I am tired of wasting time with mediocre doses, one last try before I settle back to just my TRT alone.
Thanks for all the advice guys.

**fossil** · 07-03-2022, 11:59 AM

Wango,
After reading again about your joint pain and I can surely identify with it, I have to tell you the deca from my last cycle was nothing short of magical. Now, I know it is not going to "fix" whatever is wrong, but man, the difference is amazing. I had tried some NPP in my previous cycle, but it didn't help. So I was not expecting much out of the deca. Now, the doses were different, I was at about 100mg/week of NPP, and went all the way to 350mg+/week of deca, so that might be the reason, not the ester. I am going to have to come off though, as my doc is anti/nandrolone , so need to clean up for at least a month, plus lower my test ahead of time so he doesn't get his panties tied in a knot at 1400+ total test.
I also had NO sides. But, along with no sides, I got no size/strength gains. You'd think on test/deca/dbol , I'd see some gains. Heck, the 50mg of dbol for 5 weeks alone...but nada. I am now going to see about incorporating deca in my TRT, if I can get my doc to use the LC-MS/MS method for my test work.