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Thread: Strongly considering knee replacement wtf

  1. #1
    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    Strongly considering knee replacement wtf

    Seems like every time I think my life is trouble free the shit hits the fan!!
    Iíve learned to just roll w it but it still wrecks my plans each time.
    No pity party just considering the situation I want to explore some options for putting on as much muscle as possible in the next six-eight months.
    The surgery wonít be like a normal replacement, my femur is deformed significantly so itís going to be fairly extensive.
    Anyway as some of you know Iím on trt and in the process of adding a few lite extras, proviron , hcg , deca etc..
    I can do this surgery anytime although the pain is constant and dr says itís just going to get worse. At my age55 I figure the sooner the better, before it becomes useless.
    So whatís the advice for packing some serious muscle on fast.
    My experience comes from a few minutes ago, and things seem to have advanced dramatically since I had my toes dipped in.
    So I suppose what Iím asking is what be some good choices for a blast at my age? ✌🏻

  2. #2
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    Test and Deca if you won't run into problems with your Dr. labs. Test and anavar is another possibility.

    However, I wouldn't be looking to pack on muscle fast. It rarely happens and disappears as quickly because it is often bloat. Besides you're going to have some recovery ahead post surgery.

    Personally, I liked Test @200mg/ week and NPP @ 300/week prior to my C-spine overhaul. Stay healthy and stay on top of your blood work prior to surgery. You want to be in tip top shape health wise. It will make for an easier recovery.

    You want your immune system to be strong and you need to be feeling good going into this.
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    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    10-4 on your advice towards immune system and overall health prior to surgery- I suppose you are on point with quick muscle gains- I guess that’s going to be difficult to achieve in the short term to much effect, however would ther be any advantage to the intro of hgh for the next 6 months or so in preparation? Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    10-4 on your advice towards immune system and overall health prior to surgery- I suppose you are on point with quick muscle gains- I guess that’s going to be difficult to achieve in the short term to much effect, however would ther be any advantage to the intro of hgh for the next 6 months or so in preparation? Thanks
    I would reserve GH for post-surgery use.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    Seems like every time I think my life is trouble free the shit hits the fan!!
    Iíve learned to just roll w it but it still wrecks my plans each time.
    No pity party just considering the situation I want to explore some options for putting on as much muscle as possible in the next six-eight months.
    The surgery wonít be like a normal replacement, my femur is deformed significantly so itís going to be fairly extensive.
    Anyway as some of you know Iím on trt and in the process of adding a few lite extras, proviron , hcg , deca etc..
    I can do this surgery anytime although the pain is constant and dr says itís just going to get worse. At my age55 I figure the sooner the better, before it becomes useless.
    So whatís the advice for packing some serious muscle on fast.
    My experience comes from a few minutes ago, and things seem to have advanced dramatically since I had my toes dipped in.
    So I suppose what Iím asking is what be some good choices for a blast at my age? ✌🏻
    Speaking as a PT, who is also 64 and has had both hips replaced. First hip at 50, other at 56.

    Questions please; femur deformity? Where, what? Are you using a cane, can you get off of the toilet, can you still get a decent nightís sleep?

    Keep flexible and make sure your knee has full ROM.

    Lean out if you are bulky and/or fat. You will appreciate the decreased body weight during recovery. And at 55, itís not needed.

    Without adding significantly to your knee pain, try to get your endurance better. Start getting accustomed to a stationary cycle and an elliptical machine in addition to walking.

    Basic strengthening will help, provided you arenít contributing considerably to the pain. Quad extensions and leg press (to 90 degrees if possible, but even if you canít, still limited ROM will help). If the leg strength varies considerably between your good and bad leg, do the work unilaterally.

    I do just fine at my prescribed TRT dose of 150 mg. Testosterone per week. Helps weight loss while adding muscle & strength at the same time and definitely recovery.

    Good luck.
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  6. #6
    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    I appreciate your response, the deformity is bc the head of the femur was fragmented upon impact the upper portion of the bone exited thru the quad, causing traumatic injury to the surrounding muscles as well. The ortho doc put it back together either the best he could or he didn’t think I was going to live.
    Had other severe injuries as well, other leg had 3 breaks and one exit however these were rather clean breaks- broken ribs, lungs punctured, 17 blood transfusions etc..
    the results left me with a bow in the leg which has caused the recent diagnosis of bone on bone pain, the inner part of the joint specifically.
    So as I think I mentioned before this surgery is not going to be typical knee replacement.
    Anyway I am in good shape otherwise, no extra weight to speak of, fairly lean, I eat very clean.
    I only have about 95 degrees rom. And there is significant muscle tissue attached to the femur just above my knee cap.
    I have been trying to build the muscles up in this leg with very little success, I have never used any type of assist device like a cane, except during the initial phase of getting back going. I get around pretty good, I have always stayed active but obviously favor the good leg.
    I am able to sleep well unless I do anything out of the norm like walking long distance.
    It has always hurt more so if I did anything out of the ordinary, like going on vacation and doing a lot of walking… however the recent pain is constant and more severe. Arthritis has also been creeping in over the years.

    So it sounds like I’m doing the correct things in preparation, what about adding hgh? Now or after? And will they likely want me to stop trt prior to surgery? If so how long before do you think, I really appreciate your insight, my daughter is a senior this fall going to be a pt soon 71/2 year duration she’s about half way, on the deans list and wants to open her own therapy center, also I had some incredible pt’s that worked with me after the accident so I have a great respect and appreciation for what you do! ✌��
    Last edited by Beenonvaca; 08-12-2022 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Make changes to questions I didn’t answer fully

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    I appreciate your response, the deformity is bc the head of the femur was fragmented upon impact the upper portion of the bone exited thru the quad, causing traumatic injury to the surrounding muscles as well. The ortho doc put it back together either the best he could or he didnít think I was going to live.
    Had other severe injuries as well, other leg had 3 breaks and one exit however these were rather clean breaks- broken ribs, lungs punctured, 17 blood transfusions etc..
    the results left me with a bow in the leg which has caused the recent diagnosis of bone on bone pain, the inner part of the joint specifically.
    So as I think I mentioned before this surgery is not going to be typical knee replacement.
    Anyway I am in good shape otherwise, no extra weight to speak of, fairly lean, I eat very clean.
    I only have about 95 degrees rom. And there is significant muscle tissue attached to the femur just above my knee cap.
    I have been trying to build the muscles up in this leg with very little success, I have never used any type of assist device like a cane, except during the initial phase of getting back going. I get around pretty good, I have always stayed active but obviously favor the good leg.
    I am able to sleep well unless I do anything out of the norm like walking long distance.
    It has always hurt more so if I did anything out of the ordinary, like going on vacation and doing a lot of walkingÖ however the recent pain is constant and more severe. Arthritis has also been creeping in over the years.

    So it sounds like Iím doing the correct things in preparation, what about adding hgh? Now or after? And will they likely want me to stop trt prior to surgery? If so how long before do you think, I really appreciate your insight, my daughter is a senior this fall going to be a pt soon 71/2 year duration sheís about half way, on the deans list and wants to open her own therapy center, also I had some incredible ptís that worked with me after the accident so I have a great respect and appreciation for what you do! ✌��
    Wow, a fractured ( Fragmented!) femoral head and thatís not giving you issues? Shit, that was one nasty fracture!

    95 degrees is a functional amount so that isnít an issue. When I started in the profession, TKRís werenít nearly as good as todayís and if we got 90 degrees post surgery, sometimes that was considered a big success. If youíre walking without a cane, then darn, your strength is pretty good & your pain isnít that significant (or so Iím guessing). If you can do stairs alternately then man, you are pretty solid at this time. And, if you are getting sleep without the pain awakening you frequently, then that too is good.

    So can you do a leg press? Can you do a knee extension machine for quads? With all of the PT, what exercises were they doing & what did they suggest you continue with independently?

    Congrats to your daughter; thatís fantastic! It was a great profession. I met my wife in PT school & many of our friends still practice. As weíre the oldsters we each recently retired.

    TRT was a Godsend to me. I started after my second hip replacement out of utter necessity & the difference it made in my workouts and physique was night & day. Iíd have a solid talk with your care providers about your usage, that is if they are prescribing it. If not, you had better have damn good rapport & trust with your physician, because if they put that into your chart, there can be some ramifications.

    Have to tell you, I ainít an expert with HGH. Iíve tried it for a couple of years & it agreed with me, but it isnít life changing in terms of recovery & healing. Both my shoulders are missing the rotator cuffs (Iíve lived in gyms on way or the other for 50 years now, it catches up with you) and the rotator cuff tendons didnít heal or repair themselves with HGH in the slightest, they just kept tearing more. In terms of healing from a TKR, itís simply bone growth and that doesnít need HGH to expedite it really. That TKR recovery should be pretty damn smooth.

    Did you lose significant amounts of your quad due to damage? Was there nerve damage that is contributing to the weakness?

    Brother, considering what youíve described about your injury, Iíd say you are doing damn good from my perspective.

    Thank you for the praise; Iíve been blessed with a wonderful career.

  8. #8
    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    It was very nasty for sure, But to back up a bit the injuries occurred 35 years ago, I was in really good shape at the time thankfully!
    My pt’s from what I recall said I could do what ever I was comfortable doing in reference to lifting weights. They continued working with me for two years op, when that ended I was walking on my own but no type of specific muscle building exercises. During the whole process I remember working on rom mostly with a device, and focusing on learning to walk. I was overall very weak after laying in a hospital bed for 91 days.

    It took a few years before I was able to confidently return to the gym, and soon after started doing some minimal cycles, after a few years of dedicated lifting I had came a long way.
    like I had mentioned the pain was always there, so after a while you sort of block it out or get used to it to some degree.
    I continued lifting very dedicated until a career change at 38, and recently started back 14 months ago, started trt the same time. I have stayed away from squats but do leg presses, extensions, actually worked legs this morning. I’m able to push 450 on the leg press, So basically stick with the machines for all leg exercises, my routine takes about 1:15 including 10 minutes warm up either on a bike or stair climber. I keep a good pace so I’m doing numerous different exercises. There was some nerve damage, all I can say on that point is I have feeling in the area but certain spots I can hit with a hammer and not feel it, like the knee cap itself. There is some muscle lost for sure I have just always contributed it to the fact that I can’t work it as well as the other but it is kind of mangled in comparison. So it’s difficult to say. The same leg foot was broke up to and it has a constant tingling feeling that is always there and is very sensitive to the slightest contact.
    I did one 6 month cycle with hgh included at 35 and my results were incredible. Wish I would have stayed with it.
    Yes I’m fortunate that my kids are very determined, focused, and drivin.
    Congrats on your retirement, that is a great achievement. And thanks for the encouragement!✌��

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    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    Also I am currently still seeing a trt doc, but I want to start self prescribing maybe I should wait until after the surgery for this. My reason on doing my own is they do a good job but treat me like any other person, their two hours drive I live in the boonies. And I figure as long as I continue bloodwork I can save 60%. I suppose I have the concerns of getting creditable product, but otherwise I have found it fairly straight forward with some advice and reading on this site. So I’m still in the decision phase.✌��

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    Also I am currently still seeing a trt doc, but I want to start self prescribing maybe I should wait until after the surgery for this. My reason on doing my own is they do a good job but treat me like any other person, their two hours drive I live in the boonies. And I figure as long as I continue bloodwork I can save 60%. I suppose I have the concerns of getting creditable product, but otherwise I have found it fairly straight forward with some advice and reading on this site. So I’m still in the decision phase.✌��

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    It was very nasty for sure, But to back up a bit the injuries occurred 35 years ago, I was in really good shape at the time thankfully!
    My ptís from what I recall said I could do what ever I was comfortable doing in reference to lifting weights. They continued working with me for two years op, when that ended I was walking on my own but no type of specific muscle building exercises. During the whole process I remember working on rom mostly with a device, and focusing on learning to walk. I was overall very weak after laying in a hospital bed for 91 days.

    It took a few years before I was able to confidently return to the gym, and soon after started doing some minimal cycles, after a few years of dedicated lifting I had came a long way.
    like I had mentioned the pain was always there, so after a while you sort of block it out or get used to it to some degree.
    I continued lifting very dedicated until a career change at 38, and recently started back 14 months ago, started trt the same time. I have stayed away from squats but do leg presses, extensions, actually worked legs this morning. Iím able to push 450 on the leg press, So basically stick with the machines for all leg exercises, my routine takes about 1:15 including 10 minutes warm up either on a bike or stair climber. I keep a good pace so Iím doing numerous different exercises. There was some nerve damage, all I can say on that point is I have feeling in the area but certain spots I can hit with a hammer and not feel it, like the knee cap itself. There is some muscle lost for sure I have just always contributed it to the fact that I canít work it as well as the other but it is kind of mangled in comparison. So itís difficult to say. The same leg foot was broke up to and it has a constant tingling feeling that is always there and is very sensitive to the slightest contact.
    I did one 6 month cycle with hgh included at 35 and my results were incredible. Wish I would have stayed with it.
    Yes Iím fortunate that my kids are very determined, focused, and drivin.
    Congrats on your retirement, that is a great achievement. And thanks for the encouragement!✌��
    Speaking from a PT stand point (and now Iíve got my wife intrigued by this), you are kicking ass! Dude, when I finally pulled the trigger on my THR, Iíd been on a cane for a year, couldnít get off of the toilet, couldnít sleep through the night and stairs even one at a time were a PITA. Leg press 450 pounds?!?

    Interesting thought, when my hip was bad, so was my knee. In fact my knee was so sore, I thought it was next. So I asked my surgeon for knee x-rays as well. Totally fine, nothing. Then after my hip replacement, the knee pain absolutely disappeared. My doc had been doing knees and hip replacements for at least 40 years & laughed, saying that it happens all the time; that the hip degeneration refers pain to the knee.

    This is a sincere professional request. Any chance you are comfortable sharing front and back pics of your legs. We are both curious to the bow legged affect, and also want to see the degree of atrophy. I know, goofy ass request from a total stranger.

    Still gotta say though, your knee function & pain is still damn good.

    The main reason I like my pharmaceutical testosterone is Iíve tried UGL testosterone that does not agree with sub-Q injections, leaves lumps and causes soreness. Sub-Q is such a piece of cake. But damn, driving 2 hours; I more than understand.

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    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    It funny you asked about pictures after my last post I took a couple and spent 30 minutes trying to understand how to send them in a pm, maybe that’s not possible or more likely my tech skills are questionable. Anyway I will get some of me standing when I have someone around to take them and just post them here if I can’t figure out how to on pm. I agree with you, our bodies are really remarkable in many ways, especially in our youth. So how are you doing these days with mobility? ✌��

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    The down side in respect to our bodies is as you eluded to one issue can cause other problems. My doc says that’s the reason I have back problems, herniated disc. It’s not severe at this time but if I’m not careful it puts me down. I had a bad experience a few years ago caused by impact from a tractor hit a ditch and jarred it pretty bad. Tractors don’t have much suspension! Lol it wasn’t fun for a while. ✌��

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    One thing that I have learned about leg presses is, they are not all created equal. I travel around to a few different gyms and on one leg press I will do 16-18 reps @250, 12-14 reps @250, and finish with 10-12 @280. This other machine I do a similar group of sets and finish at 450. Some days I do 4 sets of similar weight depending on how I feel, Maxing me out, on the last couple my legs are trembling. So although I feel I do pretty good you have to take into consideration the variability of machines. My legs are my weakness, so I have always focused on them but you would never know looking at them, I’m not even sure how I’m able to press that much myself. I have worked out with some huge guys and they just shake their heads, not that I’m stronger than they are but their legs are like huge in comparison, It’s very weird.

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    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
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    X-rays

    Strongly considering knee replacement wtf-315a2b34-1611-4068-9bb0-73f30333d702.jpgStrongly considering knee replacement wtf-0fd378ea-6922-4b9c-a561-16f5f1d5bfbc.jpg
    Hopefully you are able to view these?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    It funny you asked about pictures after my last post I took a couple and spent 30 minutes trying to understand how to send them in a pm, maybe thatís not possible or more likely my tech skills are questionable. Anyway I will get some of me standing when I have someone around to take them and just post them here if I canít figure out how to on pm. I agree with you, our bodies are really remarkable in many ways, especially in our youth. So how are you doing these days with mobility? ✌��
    Thank you.

    From the moment I got off of my cane after my second THR, it was like having brand new legs again without any pain. Mobility is great. Since retirement, not only have I been hitting the gym more often and doing cardio there, but Iím taking progressively longer walks with my wife 1-2x/week (to 7.5 miles). I do have to still get my legs stronger though & start focusing on some balance work as well. Me + ladders = danger/falls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    The down side in respect to our bodies is as you eluded to one issue can cause other problems. My doc says thatís the reason I have back problems, herniated disc. Itís not severe at this time but if Iím not careful it puts me down. I had a bad experience a few years ago caused by impact from a tractor hit a ditch and jarred it pretty bad. Tractors donít have much suspension! Lol it wasnít fun for a while. ✌��
    Oh yeah, one problem tends to contribute to others particularly when you are compensating (even a bit). Good luck with that herniated disc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    One thing that I have learned about leg presses is, they are not all created equal. I travel around to a few different gyms and on one leg press I will do 16-18 reps @250, 12-14 reps @250, and finish with 10-12 @280. This other machine I do a similar group of sets and finish at 450. Some days I do 4 sets of similar weight depending on how I feel, Maxing me out, on the last couple my legs are trembling. So although I feel I do pretty good you have to take into consideration the variability of machines. My legs are my weakness, so I have always focused on them but you would never know looking at them, Iím not even sure how Iím able to press that much myself. I have worked out with some huge guys and they just shake their heads, not that Iím stronger than they are but their legs are like huge in comparison, Itís very weird.
    Have seen that a lot through the years at the gym. Sometimes less massive guys (and females) can throw around some amazing poundage.

    Man, I hate working legs. I always rationalize (incorrectly) that Iím going easy on my THR and not wearing them out as quickly. It sounds like a great argument, but the truth is I get a bigger kick out of getting an arm or deltoid pump and see my t-shirt stretch in the gym mirror.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hopefully you are able to view these?
    Yup, we can, thank you. Looks like bone on bone medially, but still nice joint space laterally. One thing weíve learned about x-rays though through the decades is sometimes folks with the most hideous x-rays are functioning incredibly well with manageable pain; but then the opposite can occur with someone with relatively mild - moderate changes on their x-ray.

    BTW, my surgeon let me keep each of my femoral heads post surgery. One is just chewed up with very little cartilage left and not really round. The other is just disintegrating more & more.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wango View Post
    Yup, we can, thank you. Looks like bone on bone medially, but still nice joint space laterally. One thing weíve learned about x-rays though through the decades is sometimes folks with the most hideous x-rays are functioning incredibly well with manageable pain; but then the opposite can occur with someone with relatively mild - moderate changes on their x-ray.

    BTW, my surgeon let me keep each of my femoral heads post surgery. One is just chewed up with very little cartilage left and not really round. The other is just disintegrating more & more.
    That's cool of them. I asked for a piece of the spinous process or laminae from my surgery, but like everything else they've removed from my body, they claimed it was medical waste, even the pacemaker.
    I know they used to send home about anything....tonsils, kidney stones, etc.


    Beenonvaca, Wango is speaking the truth about compensation causing damage. I think some people do more damage to parts of the body that pick up the work load than the actual damaged part itself.
    Last edited by almostgone; 08-13-2022 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Cell phone auto f-in correct
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    I agree with out question, my most recent X-ray of my back is from a couple of years ago. Even the X-ray tech was concerned upon reviewing it.
    My leg injury resulted in nearly 1” difference in height when compared to the other one which has caused, you probably guessed it an abnormal curvature in my spine, which is of course directly responsible for my disc issues.
    Wango- that is a very encouraging outcome at your age! I am hoping this tkr will have similar effect on my life. I suspect that it will be an improvement at the least.

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    Pictures

    So the scar to the inside of the leg is from a post recovery surgery.
    It’s a bit hard to see but the other scar runs along the outside of the leg about 10” long, midway it t’s off and runs above the knee cap and intersects the prs scar,
    at the intersection of the t on the outside is the exit point of course it is jagged and I suppose the doc expanded from that point to do his work.
    You might also notice the 8 indentions along the outer leg, those are where the external fixation device was screwed in.
    Explaining this brings back some memories of the whole ordeal,
    When it was time to remove the device the doc gave me a shot of valium and I just sat in the chair and watched it.
    It was a far better outcome than the alternative which was amputate.
    Before the initial surgery the doc said he might have to take it off above the knee, the hassles associated with a prosthetic would have been far worse I’m sure. ✌��
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Strongly considering knee replacement wtf-09803d49-af7b-4444-ab82-254676f6bcd3.jpg   Strongly considering knee replacement wtf-bb69a38b-da04-4023-aa73-cc4b1aa5ce4c.jpg   Strongly considering knee replacement wtf-97b8500e-1844-4371-9ff8-d7c15e6d8a89.jpg  
    Last edited by Beenonvaca; 08-14-2022 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Rather not have pictures open to the public

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    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    That's cool of them. I asked for a piece of the spinous process or laminae from my surgery, but like everything else they've removed from my body, they claimed it was medical waste, even the pacemaker.
    I know they used to send gone about anything....tonsils, kidney stones, etc.


    Beenonvaca, Wango is speaking the truth about compensation causing damage. I think some people do more damage to parts of the body that pick up the work load than the actual damaged part itself.
    I think because my wife had worked with him for at least 25 years, and he knew I also taught Anatomy (the kids ranged from being thrilled to see them to freaked out completely) so there might have been some professional courtesy.

    I thought of the mess I could make if I buried them in the backyard, sold the house and years later somebody dug them up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beenonvaca View Post
    Strongly considering knee replacement wtf-09803d49-af7b-4444-ab82-254676f6bcd3.jpgStrongly considering knee replacement wtf-bb69a38b-da04-4023-aa73-cc4b1aa5ce4c.jpgStrongly considering knee replacement wtf-97b8500e-1844-4371-9ff8-d7c15e6d8a89.jpg

    So the scar to the inside of the leg is from a post recovery surgery.
    Itís a bit hard to see but the other scar runs along the outside of the leg about 10Ē long, midway it tís off and runs above the knee cap and intersects the prs scar,
    at the intersection of the t on the outside is the exit point of course it is jagged and I suppose the doc expanded from that point to do his work.
    You might also notice the 8 indentions along the outer leg, those are where the external fixation device was screwed in.
    Explaining this brings back some memories of the whole ordeal,
    When it was time to remove the device the doc gave me a shot of valium and I just sat in the chair and watched it.
    It was a far better outcome than the alternative which was amputate.
    Before the initial surgery the doc said he might have to take it off above the knee, the hassles associated with a prosthetic would have been far worse Iím sure. ✌🏻
    Man that is a loss of muscle - and youíve kicked ass for 35 years! Iíd say you dodged a bullet by avoiding an amputation. Although Iíve worked with quite a few and they really do remarkably, but an above knee amputation is far more difficult.

    Just the pain relief was enough to get my hips replaced. As many members here have suffered and still do suffer from chronic pain and can empathize; itís just exhausting and after months/years it just kicks your butt.

    Welcome to the forum, this truly is an amazing place where guys reach out to others and share and help. Iíve learned so much & honestly the stories that I hear from everyone helps keep me focused, positive & reminds me that you really can overcome practically anything if you set your mind to it.

    Still leg pressing 450 pounds!. I donít know how many more reminders I need that I better start hitting my legs. Thanks, you might be the guy that finally did that; I owe you one.

  25. #25
    Beenonvaca is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    74
    Well thanks for the kind words and the welcoming, much appreciated!!
    I will never win any sexy leg competition lol
    But they keep me going and give me a real appreciation for overall health.
    I think most everyone hates leg day, including myself but it is probably more important than stretching those arm sleeves lol
    However I enjoy that as well.
    Good luck with everything, stay healthy!✌��
    wango likes this.

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