"Bio-Identical" Testosterone vs. Cyp. for TRT

**juice2boost** · 07-30-2008, 11:17 PM

I was in a local pharmacy today after leaving the TRT clinic, picking up another script. I was speaking with the Pharmacist (Also Owner) while waiting about my situation regarding TRT.

Come to find out he too specializes in TRT, but of a different nature called "Bio-Identical" Testosterone . You can bring your results in, if already tested, or take a saliva test. If qualified, Depending on your levels he then puts together a Bio-Identical Testosterone, based on YOUR body, that is supposed to be the newer, safer method of TRT.

He claims this is safer because very few ppl test. levels are the same and this Bio-Iden. Test. is formulated just for the levels that need to be adjusted. This is also supposed more "Natural" so he claims...

What are your guys thoughts or knowledge of this treatment method??

**juicelee** · 07-31-2008, 11:12 AM

I'm not exactly sure so dont quote me, but I believe the androgel and others were considered Bio identical, I'm not sure if this is what he means

**juice2boost** · 07-31-2008, 11:47 AM

I was thinking the same thing, but he claims to be able to compound this into Injections...

**Pac Man** · 07-31-2008, 02:55 PM

Hmm, should ask him more about it and if he has a pamphlet or something

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 07-31-2008, 05:16 PM

the book by suzanne summers (ok i know its not exactly a steroid guru,lol) called "the sexy years" is all about hormone replacement therapy, and bio-identicall hormones. this has been on my list to read, and my aunt has told me about it. It sounds like there is a place that will copy your tstosterone, estrogen, progesterone, whatever, and make you patches or maybe even injectables. My aunt has a bio-identical hormone patch . immediatly i thought of the implications of running cycles of biodentical testosterone . The cycle effectiveness and safety might be increased. Im on my way to getting a script of test(not that i need one hehe). but at some point i know i want to hit up the bio-identical stuff, so maybe i could do this. Im sure insurance wont cover it as much tho, lol. i have to read that book though. i cant believe im gonna read a suzanne sommers book. oh well, shes hot at least

**CiLe** · 07-31-2008, 07:48 PM

a little info

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd6xgZSoMVo

**zaggahamma** · 07-31-2008, 09:08 PM

subscribed

**T_man87** · 07-31-2008, 09:12 PM

I'm subscribed, too. Not quite sure what "bio-identical" is to be honest.

**zaggahamma** · 07-31-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by T_man87

I'm subscribed, too. Not quite sure what "bio-identical" is to be honest.

did you click the link above your post? I'm going to check it tommorrow

**juice2boost** · 07-31-2008, 09:57 PM

I'm getting my detailed results from my current TRT Dr. Tuesday and going straight to the Pharmacist to see what he thinks. I'll find out as much info. as possible from him and see if he has a pamphlet or handout that I can scan and post as well.

Hey, if it has the same effect and is Safer, I'd definitely be willing to go that route!!

**T_man87** · 07-31-2008, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by jpkman

did you click the link above your post? I'm going to check it tommorrow

Yeah, I did - watched the whole thing (even the ad at the end to be in the "inner circle"). From what I can glean, test Cyp IS "bioidentical" to our natty testosterone . I also googled a bit and that seems to be the case. However, I'd still like some clarification on this from someone with more knowledge of the terminology.

**juice2boost** · 07-31-2008, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by T_man87

Yeah, I did - watched the whole thing (even the ad at the end to be in the "inner circle"). From what I can glean, test Cyp IS "bioidentical" to our natty testosterone. I also googled a bit and that seems to be the case. However, I'd still like some clarification on this from someone with more knowledge of the terminology.

What they mean my "Bio-Identical" is they compound a formula into a patch, gel, or injectable that is based on just YOUR results. Meaning they alter the compound to correct any levels in your body that may be low or possibly even high( testosterone , estrogen, progesteorne, etc...) so that putting something into your body that it once naturally produced on its own.

All Cyp. has the same molecules and esters or at least is supposed to depending on the manufacturer. It's a general testosterone, but its as close to Bio-Identical as you can get. That's why so many TRT clinics, Endo., and Uro. prescribe it, but it's still not produced just for Your body type.

**Coach 44** · 08-01-2008, 01:22 AM

Certainly sounds interesting. Bio-Identical...not Suzanne Summers book

**FallenWyvern** · 08-02-2008, 01:52 PM

Sounds like this doctor is selling you hype.

Testosterone is "bioidentical".

Some use the patch delivery method. Some use the gel delivery method. Some use the ethanate ester delivery method. Some use the cypionate ester delivery method.

**FallenWyvern** · 08-02-2008, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

i have to read that book though. i cant believe im gonna read a suzanne sommers book. oh well, shes hot at least

Dood she is like 62 years old.

**juice2boost** · 08-02-2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

Sounds like this doctor is selling you hype.

Testosterone is "bioidentical".

Some use the patch delivery method. Some use the gel delivery method. Some use the ethanate ester delivery method. Some use the cypionate ester delivery method.

The link below has a little more info. on the defining the differnce between Natural Test. (Bio-Iden. Test.) & Synthetic Test. (Cyp., Enth.).

http://www.belmarpharmacy.com/pharma...stosterone.htm

Bottom line is Bio-Iden. Test. is not the same as Cyp. or Enth. That is why they check ALL your levels (Total Test., Free Test., DHEA, Estrogen, etc.) to see whats lacking in YOUR body and correct whats missing, NOT just prescribe you a general synthetic test. that could raise the risk of having a harmful affect in the long run. Everyone's body is different.

**FallenWyvern** · 08-02-2008, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by juice2boost

The link below has a little more info. on the defining the differnce between Natural Test. (Bio-Iden. Test.) & Synthetic Test. (Cyp., Enth.).

http://www.belmarpharmacy.com/pharma...stosterone.htm

Bottom line is Bio-Iden. Test. is not the same as Cyp. or Enth. That is why they check ALL your levels (Total Test., Free Test., DHEA, Estrogen, etc.) to see whats lacking in YOUR body and correct whats missing, NOT just prescribe you a general synthetic test. that could raise the risk of having a harmful affect in the long run. Everyone's body is different.

That link provides absolutely no useful info, nor does it talk about delivery methods, including esters. What is this mystery delivery method that makes their testosterone so much safer than intramuscular injections? If they referenced other AS such as deca it would make sense.

Testosterone is testosterone. There is no difference between synthetic testosterone and naturally produced testosterone - they're one and the same chemical. Same atoms, in the same configuration, forming the exact same molecule, with identical chemical properties. Testosterone is "bioidentical".

Is there such a thing as natural salt and sythetic salt?

There are different delivery methods.

Cypoinate is just an oil. It is added to "bioidetical" testosterone so that it will release slowly into your system. Otherwise 100% pure test, without the oil would have a half life of 10 minutes rather than 8 days with the ester. It is the exact same testosterone that is used in patches, gel, subligal, estered injections or any other delivery method of test.

Now the holistic approach to "bioidentical" may be very different than what a endocrinologist does as far as testing levels etc. to get right ratios. The delivery methods of the hormones may be different too.

There is no mystery special proprietary "bioidentical" more natural, better version of testosterone.

**FallenWyvern** · 08-02-2008, 10:19 PM

Never mind the article makes sense now, they do reference stanozolol and methyltestosterone in that article. Those aren't naturally occurring hormones in the body.

The article makes sense and isn't referring to testosterone cypionate at all.

**juice2boost** · 08-03-2008, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

Never mind the article makes sense now, they do reference stanozolol and methyltestosterone in that article. Those aren't naturally occurring hormones in the body.

The article makes sense and isn't referring to testosterone cypionate at all.

By reffering to "Methyltestosterone", that is generalizing synthetic testosterone , Cypionate is a METHYLTESOTERONE!!! Go to this link and look under Methyl testosterone...http://www.vitamin-galore.com/Drug/M...stosterone.htm

Obviously there is NO way to convince your stubborn A$$ into believing there can be a Test. formulated just for your body..... Cyp. is not BIO-IDEN, if it was there would not be a problem with Estrogen/Testosterone imbalance. Which Bio-Iden. Test is made for YOUR body to prevent....

If you don't want to be Open Minded about something thats Possibly newer or safer than don't respond. This is a group trying to learn what may be best for them! Unless you've tried it or know a little about it, don't down it!!

**FallenWyvern** · 08-03-2008, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by juice2boost

By reffering to "Methyltestosterone ", that is generalizing synthetic testosterone , Cypionate is a METHYLTESOTERONE!!! Go to this link and look under Methyl testosterone...http://www.vitamin-galore.com/Drug/M...stosterone.htm

Obviously there is NO way to convince your stubborn A$$ into believing there can be a Test. formulated just for your body..... Cyp. is not BIO-IDEN, if it was there would not be a problem with Estrogen/Testosterone imbalance. Which Bio-Iden. Test is made for YOUR body to prevent....

If you don't want to be Open Minded about something thats Possibly newer or safer than don't respond. This is a group trying to learn what may be best for them! Unless you've tried it or know a little about it, don't down it!!

Big disconnect here.

Methyltestosterone is an oral. This is a horrible idea for your liver.

Cypionate oil is not a compound. It is not a steroid . It is an oil, an ester, a delivery method added to testosterone to increase the half life. There is even Estradiol Cypionate.

No one has identified this new mystery "bioidentical" testosterone. I bet once that is revealed, I will have in fact tried it.

I am personally looking for a better way to do TRT. I hope that you have some info that could benefit me. I would love to do without shots every week if I could.

I could be wrong but my guess is that he is gonna give you patch, gel or that new sublingal thing.

**juice2boost** · 08-03-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by FallenWyvern

Big disconnect here.

Methyltestosterone is an oral. This is a horrible idea for your liver.

Cypionate oil is not a compound. It is not a steroid . It is an oil, an ester, a delivery method added to testosterone to increase the half life. There is even Estradiol Cypionate.

No one has identified this new mystery "bioidentical" testosterone. I bet once that is revealed, I will have in fact tried it.

I am personally looking for a better way to do TRT. I hope that you have some info that could benefit me. I would love to do without shots every week if I could.

I could be wrong but my guess is that he is gonna give you patch, gel or that new sublingal thing.

I'll Definitely post word for word everything else he has to add tomorrow. I'm going straight there from my TRT Dr. with a pen & pad in hand, because he says that he can get this into an injectable.

I would not quit my current TRT for a patch or a pill.

**T_man87** · 08-04-2008, 04:47 PM

I'll be interested to hear about this new secret delivery system. IMHO, the "bioidentical" part of this issue is nothing more than a sales pitch. The whole point of proper TRT is to get the proper amounts of test in order to have testosterone levels "identical" that of a 21 yr old male. The test in Cyp IS bioidentical to natty testosterone , and as Fallen Wyvern stated, the Cypionate Oil is only a time released delivery system. So we are basically talking about the actual amount of testosterone administered to be "bioidentical" to the levels of a youthful person - taking Test Cyp is not a "generic" application where everyone takes the same amount weekly regardless of need. The "correct" amount needs to be determined from trial and error and frequent blood tests to get it dialed in correctly (usually between 100 and 200 mg a week). ANY kind of test can cause a negative feedback and estrogenic issues. If there is some kind of new "bioidentical" test that doesn't do this, whoever discovered it will have a goldmine.

But if there is information that refutes this stance, I'll be glad to hear it.

**keith1958** · 08-05-2008, 06:42 AM

From what I was told by my doctor is that a compound T-CYP does not have an ester. Which would make it have a shorter half life. Testosterone Cypionate is not a natural substance. It is synthetic.

My wife's Bio identical doctor states that the only real Bio identical form of Testosterone is a cream that is made for the persons certain needs. My doctor does this also. I was not able to absorb Androgel so I went to T-CYP. I have had some side effects from this Mainly high blood count. Got to get a pint taken out every so often. The cream doesn't do this as much. I am going to ask my doctor if I could try this form of reoplacementhe has both the cream and the compound Cypionate . I will let you all know

**T_man87** · 08-05-2008, 07:44 PM

I'm still interested in knowing just what the hell this "bioidentical" test is..... reading between the lines as best I can, I don't think it's anything new or different. I mean, does a certain "body type" have a different type of test?? I think not. But more info on the subject would be welcome, if there is any.

**FallenWyvern** · 08-05-2008, 08:30 PM

This is an article from Harvard stating that there is no difference between synthetic testosterone and natural testosterone.

I didn't see that it referenced cyp but one of the studies did reference enanthate .

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opi...rone_d13C.html

**nwz71** · 08-06-2008, 12:36 AM

Hey guys check out this link. It has some usefull unfo. Was wondering about bio-identical hrt myself.

http://www.ftmguide.org/bioidenticalt.html

**nwz71** · 08-06-2008, 12:45 AM

edit

**T_man87** · 08-06-2008, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by nwz71

Hey guys check out this link. It has some usefull unfo. Was wondering about bio-identical hrt myself.

http://www.ftmguide.org/bioidenticalt.html

Thanks for that link. The article does put esters such as Cyp in the "bioidentical" category. I believe this all but ends the issue in my mind.

**nwz71** · 08-06-2008, 07:02 PM

After reading the link again I think I understand now. Test. with esters Cyp, Enth and others attatched are considered Synthetic because they are man made. But once the ester is removed from the Test. molecule it is "bioidentical" to Test. made naturally. The following sentence explains:

"As a testosterone ester enters the blood stream, the ester group is cleaved off by "esterase enzymes" in a process known as "hydrolization." Once the ester group has been removed by these enzymes, the testosterone is returned to its "bioidentical" form, thus making it bioavailable and ready to perform its various actions and effects."

Maybe the doctors that offer so called bioidentical test. have Test that is not attatched to an ester. I'm sure that you would have to take this type very often because the half life would be very short(less than an hour). Wouldn't u guys think so? Maybe this would be more healthy if you weren't injecting the oil into your system. But I'm sure they would have to mix it with something. Has anyone seen any studies on the long term side affects to the body from of the oils that are mixed in the synthetic test?
Still curious to here what the hype is all about and why they say it is better than synthetic test.

juice2boost: So fill us in on what the pharmacist says he offers.

**FallenWyvern** · 08-06-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by nwz71

Hey guys check out this link. It has some usefull unfo. Was wondering about bio-identical hrt myself.

http://www.ftmguide.org/bioidenticalt.html

Nice link. Thanks.

**T_man87** · 08-07-2008, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by nwz71

After reading the link again I think I understand now. Test. with esters Cyp, Enth and others attatched are considered Synthetic because they are man made. But once the ester is removed from the Test. molecule it is "bioidentical" to Test. made naturally. The following sentence explains:

"As a testosterone ester enters the blood stream, the ester group is cleaved off by "esterase enzymes" in a process known as "hydrolization." Once the ester group has been removed by these enzymes, the testosterone is returned to its "bioidentical" form, thus making it bioavailable and ready to perform its various actions and effects."

Maybe the doctors that offer so called bioidentical test. have Test that is not attatched to an ester. I'm sure that you would have to take this type very often because the half life would be very short(less than an hour). Wouldn't u guys think so? Maybe this would be more healthy if you weren't injecting the oil into your system. But I'm sure they would have to mix it with something. Has anyone seen any studies on the long term side affects to the body from of the oils that are mixed in the synthetic test?
Still curious to here what the hype is all about and why they say it is better than synthetic test.

juice2boost: So fill us in on what the pharmacist says he offers.

I think you pretty much got it right. Personally - using Cyp is a MUCH better alternative than rubbing cream/gel on myself a couple of times a day. The shots don't even bother me at this point anyway.

**nwz71** · 08-07-2008, 11:54 PM

Yeah I'm debating about switching to injectable T. Just doing research first.

I was reading the pamplet that came with my androgel and it showed that the test used has the same chemical formula (C19H28O2) and the same chemical structure (no ester attached) as natural test. So I guess it would be considered "bioidentical". Instead of having an ester attached to regulate available Test it is absorbed and the skin acts as a resevoir for the sustained release of Test into the systemic system. Just thought you guys might like to know.

**nwz71** · 08-09-2008, 08:54 PM

After doing some research about this I think I know what juice2boost pharmacist is talkin about. I found a link for whats called a compounding pharmacist. Might help if you need a custom T prescription.

"Some individuals might find that they respond well to a prescription of Delatestryl (injectable testosterone enanthate ), but that they experience an allergic reaction to the sesame oil in which it is suspended. A compounding pharmacy can suspend testosterone enanthate in a different oil to help avoid such an allergic reaction."

Here's a link to read more about compound pharmacist and find one in your area.
http://www.ftmguide.org/compounding.html