Test and ED

[nalm]

Warrior, You want your erection back ? Do like this :

1 - Drop your testosterone inj. to 200 mg. a week.
2 - Take some HCG during the cycle (250 IU twice a week or 500 IU once a week).
3 - In case you want take some AAS together with testo, switch Deca to any DHT's derivate like Primobolan ,Winstrol ,Masteron ,Oxandrolone...These AAS can't aromatize.
4 - Take 50 mg. of Proviron everyday, it will unleash your free testosterone from SHBG and it will work like an antiestrogen as well.
5 - Get some pd5 inhibitors .

Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well.

Good luck.

taking all this is not a good idea,,, if i where you i would get blood work my redone to know where your at and form a game plan so to speak .
Then I would do 1 for sure witch is lower your test in the 100 -200 mg weekly range.
i would not do 2,3 or 4 at all , as the HCG would really only raise all your hormones , including the one that is most likely causing the problem(estro).
3 is pointless ,for a few reason's why add more variables to the problem if you don't have to, your only making it harder to solve for you and for your doctor,( who seems pretty willing to help) , also most of those aas you listed are weak and not even worth the bother ,time or price , besides why worrie about being ripped if your noodle is limp? its like owning a porsche with no wheels ....pointless........
at 400 mg a week i don't think needing more free test would be a problem and SHBG will lower with his estrogen so 4 isn't needed IMHO.
a pd5 should work, try 20mg of cialis, the only thing is you could be masking a symptom of something far worse then just ED, i would add this only after i eliminated all other causes of ed .


saying this
"Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well."

This is wrong, even more wrong is the fact you said it after you recommended HCG in the same reply, he would have tits in a month and his problem would most likely be far worse,you need tamoxifen with HCG ... also there is no way his estro is to low at 400mg a week and no anti e , i had my estro levels way outta range to the point i was forming gyno at only 100mg's a week most people on here my self included need adex with way less testosterone so low estro shouldnt be a problem


If i where you i would rethink your whole approach to TRT , i would simplify big time and like this
i would get my blood work redone get evey thing checked , including your psa levels, then i would have a prostate exam done ( this could be your problem), by then you should have your blood work back go over the numbers , lower your test to 100 -200 mg's a week ad adex to lower your estrogan get retested in 4 or 6 weeks and adjust it from there. and if your feeling great and still lose your hard on i would try cialis to help ease your mind in case that's the problem ,even then it wouldn't be every day as you need to know if your body is working like it should and you cant if your hiding symptoms all the time with a pd5
Then once this is all done and you find your happy place with your levels or sweet spot , get tested again to know the numbers then worry about size and cycle if you must but that way you know your happy numbers and when you come off you know where you want to be .



this is just my opnion, sorry for any grammer and spelling mistakes its 4 am here and i have had a long day
best of luck !

[ZonaDave]

^^^good advice

[Testomaster]

i would not do 2,3 or 4 at all , as the HCG would really only raise all your hormones , including the one that is most likely causing the problem(estro).

HCG will not raise only estro but also others hormones responsable for libido .

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

MD . John Crisler

http://www.allthingsmale.com/index.htm

also most of those aas you listed are weak and not even worth the bother ,time or price , besides why worrie about being ripped if your noodle is limp? its like owning a porsche with no wheels ....pointless........

Weak ??? You think Winstrol is weak ? This product is the most widely used among pro, it does not cause water retention and does not convert into estrogen.

at 400 mg a week i don't think needing more free test would be a problem and SHBG will lower with his estrogen so 4 isn't needed IMHO.

Wrong !
Anyone's different, Each of us reacts differently , it depends about receptors and genetic factors. The guy could have a significant conversion of testosterone into estrogen/prolactine rather than DHT or his testosterone may simply be tied into the SHBG's trap.
Mesterolone is the most powerfull DHT's derivate on market, it will help.

saying this
"Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well."

This is wrong, even more wrong is the fact you said it after you recommended HCG in the same reply, he would have tits in a month and his problem would most likely be far worse,you need tamoxifen with HCG ... also there is no way his estro is to low at 400mg a week and no anti e , i had my estro levels way outta range to the point i was forming gyno at only 100mg's a week most people on here my self included need adex with way less testosterone so low estro shouldnt be a problem

No offense but you don't know what you're talking about....

Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased libido, and thrombosis associated with Nolvadex /Arimidex use. The thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERM’s may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue.
Nolvadex and Arimidex are often used to combat gyno during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While tamoxifene may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gyno.
This is caused by tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. This can dramatically increase the chances of developming gyno in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as Nandrolone (Deca) or Trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

[Testomaster]

testo,

r u on a similar protocol and if so how long and how long has it been effective and is proviron hard to get...its a steroid(hormone)?

I'm on 250 cypionate every 10 days plus 50 mg. proviron ED.
IMHO anything more than 200 testo a week is not a TRT, it's a bb cycle.

In Europe Proviron is quite popular due to its property of not inhibiting the HPTA . It's the most powerfull DHT's derivate , 100 times more androgenic than his cousins (Winstrol ,Primobolan ,Oxandrolone,Oximet..etc.) .

DHT in general is the most androgenic of hormones. Its responsibility lies in all of the male secondary sexual characteristics such as deepening of the vocal chords, male hair patterns on the body, hair on the face, oily skin (especially when you first hit puberty and your natural test is raging), and last but definitely not least, male sexual drive and function.
DHT is an extremely potent non-aromatizing androgen. It will not aromatize at any dosage whatsoever , it means hardening of the physique, lack of water retention, favorable fat-loss, increased sex drive, and increased strength gain.

Below a serious source that explains the Proviron's mechanism of action :

Prov. also binds strongly to another enzyme called sex-hormone-binding-globulin, or SHBG. This enzyme is important because it renders anabolics inactive. When you ingest or inject anabolics into your system, they eventually find there way to your bloodstream as we all know. What many people are unaware of is how bound the hormones become by various enzymes, once they reach your bloodstream. Its hard enough to get the active drug into your body so it can help us build muscle, now you have an enzyme that binds to the drug and makes it temporarily inactive. Not good for muscle building. Similar to your natural testosterone , the hormone is only free to act in its "free" state. What this means is the chemical structures floating through your bloodstream cannot be bound to substances such as SHBG if you want to grow and get the most from your anabolics.

Decreasing SHBG or limiting its effects would be one way to aid the dosage and drugs you take in building muscle and doing their job. With all anabolic hormonal drugs, it is not how much you have in your system, technically, it is how much "free" hormone you have in your system. So if pro-v is really good at binding to SHBG, it leaves less SHBG to bind to the anabolics in your blood. Less binding of SHBG to the anaboics in your blood, better activity of the drug(s) and more anabolic effect.

Another cool effect of prov. is its ability to stimulate the libido. Prov. is probably the best drug around. Its purely androgenic content stimulates the nervous system and is actually used in medicine to aid fertility of males. If this is confusing, remember that theoretically, anything that limits or blocks estrogen from the pituitary can elevate your testosterone level.

As an anti-estrogen, prov. is one of the best drugs you can use. It does wonders for keeping water off, lessening your chance of estrogenic side effects, and acts great as either an ancillary drug or in a combo for post-cycle recovery with HCG , clomid, etc. One of the best propertis of prov. is the ability for it to cushion any libido loss following even the heaviest of anabolic cycles.

[nalm]

HCG will not raise only estro but also others hormones responsable for libido .

While HCG, as sole TRT, is still considered treatment of choice for hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism by many , my experience is that it just does not bring the same subjective benefits as pure testosterone delivery systems do—even when similar serum androgen levels are produced from comparable baseline values. However, supplementing the more “traditional” TRT of transdermal, or injected, testosterone with HCG stabilizes serum levels, prevents testicular atrophy, helps rebalance expression of other hormones, and brings reports of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido. My patients absolutely love it. As time goes on, we are coming to appreciate HCG as a much more powerful--and wonderful--hormone than previously given credit.

MD . John Crisler

http://www.allthingsmale.com/index.htm


-------------umm isnt this what i said,minus the copy and pasting it will really only raise ALL your hormones, aka making his problem worse right now, we where not talking about his nuts and there size, he asked about ED , and im sure he ads HCG after he balances the rest of the hormone pannel,to help or thats(supplementing aka adding to) what i got from the atricle anyway -----------------

Weak ??? You think Winstrol is weak ? This product is the most widely used among pro, it does not cause water retention and does not convert into estrogen.

-------------yes yes i do 6 pounds and no hair and sore joints , a pro using it does not make it strong, did i say it was all bad no, but why take it now, it wouldnt do him any good--------------


Wrong !
Anyone's different, Each of us reacts differently , it depends about receptors and genetic factors. The guy could have a significant conversion of testosterone into estrogen/prolactine rather than DHT or his testosterone may simply be tied into the SHBG's trap.
Mesterolone is the most powerfull DHT's derivate on market, it will help.

--------------------ok this is what i was saying, and at 400 mg's a week there is no maybe he probly does a have significant conversion happening,( and no idea where with out blood work that is why i said he needed blood work)there is no way he needs 400 mg's a week, and im sorry your not gonna convince me, him or anyone would need that much,
i also dont think he should ad more drugs in to the mix, there bandaids not solutions------------------


No offense but you don't know what you're talking about...


---------------maybe im just to tried here, but all the copy and pasting is only backing my point ,and contradicting your first post
my point in my last post was that he most likely has high estro, and not to make things more complacaited(wich your advice would do) -----------------


Research with male breast cancer patients has also reported decreased libido, and thrombosis associated with Nolvadex /Arimidex use. The thrombotic effect (blood vessel clogging) could explain the mechanism by which SERM’s may inhibit erectile function, by reducing circulation to erectile tissue.
Nolvadex and Arimidex are often used to combat gyno during cycle when “flare ups” occur. While tamoxifene may provide immediate inhibition of proliferation, and serve as valuable tool, it can actually increase future susceptibility to gyno.
This is caused by tamoxifen’s ability to up-regulate the progesterone receptor. This can dramatically increase the chances of developming gyno in future cycles when utilizing progestin based anabolics such as Nandrolone (Deca) or Trenbolone (or any pro-hormone acting upon the progesterone receptor).

yes it has side effects , and i think my test eth said it can cause ED on the insert that came with it ,but its been to long since i seen it to say for sure
he needs less drugs in his system to figure out his problem( ED ) not more,

[Testomaster]

Originally Posted by nalm
-------------umm isnt this what i said,minus the copy and pasting it will really only raise ALL your hormones, aka making his problem worse right now, we where not talking about his nuts and there size, he asked about ED , and im sure he ads HCG after he balances the rest of the hormone pannel,to help or thats(supplementing aka adding to) what i got from the atricle anyway -----------------

The copy and pasting is for let u know what we're talking about.
He asked about ED and loss of libido so I copied and pasted an article about "using low dosage of HCG can let TRT works better" , in terms of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido, and won't rise estrogen.
You said HCG should not be used .

Originally Posted by nalm
-------------yes yes i do 6 pounds and no hair and sore joints , a pro using it does not make it strong, did i say it was all bad no, but why take it now, it wouldnt do him any good--------------

Winstrol is a DHT's derivates, it does mean NO AROMATIZATION , if his problem is an estrogens excess he should stay away from all Nandrolone derivates like Trenbolone ,Deca ,etc...The fact Winstrol didn't work with you doesn't mean it's a weak product. Do you use AAS for joint problem or hair ?

Originally Posted by nalm
ok this is what i was saying, and at 400 mg's a week there is no maybe he probly does a have significant conversion happening,( and no idea where with out blood work that is why i said he needed blood work)there is no way he needs 400 mg's a week, and im sorry your not gonna convince me, him or anyone would need that much,
i also dont think he should ad more drugs in to the mix, there bandaids not solutions

Where did I write this ?
Please try to read better....

Originally Posted by Testomaster
Warrior, You want your erection back ? Do like this :

1 - Drop your testosterone inj. to 200 mg. a week.

Then I said "In case you want to take some AAS with testo" (wich I wouldn't agree), "I suggest you to switch deca with DHT's derivates "...
His problem is not losing hair or joint pain...I think it was clear. I'm sure that Deca is worse than Winstrol about ED/loss of libido, and if you're not agree with me , no problem.

And anyway you are the one that contradicts itself...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...33#post4534933

... sust is a mix of esters and you have to shot it a few times a week because of the shorter(faster) esters...

Few times a week. Let me guess...750mg/Sustanon a week ?

Just to remind you....The only short (faster) ester in Sustanon is propionate ....

Again, you don't know what you're talking about ....No offense.

[nalm]

The copy and pasting is for let u know what we're talking about.
He asked about ED and loss of libido so I copied and pasted an article about "using low dosage of HCG can let TRT works better" , in terms of greatly increased sense of well-being and libido, and won't rise estrogen.
You said HCG should not be used ..

--- No i said he dosent need to be ading more drugs its only going to make things more complicated, untill he finds where he should be at with blood work ---- and i dont think it should be untill he figures out his levels first

Winstrol is a DHT's derivates, it does mean NO AROMATIZATION , if his problem is an estrogens excess he should stay away from all Nandrolone derivates like Trenbolone,Deca,etc...The fact Winstrol didn't work with you doesn't mean it's a weak product. Do you use AAS for joint problem or hair ? .

------ i dont use AAS for anything more then trt now, I do know what winstrol is, and i never said he should use deca or anything else instead of winstrol, i said he shouldnt use anymore drugs at all ,he should not make it more complicated by adding things untill he figures out his levels first ,

Where did I write this ?
Please try to read better.....

I read just fine thanks..... , i said there is no way he has low free test shooting 400mg/s a week and there isnt,
you said i was wrong and everyone is different meaning you dont agree
, at 400mgs a week he probably has sky high numbers with all his hormones ,and that would still make them out of wack and could be causing his problems, lowering his dose would calm them down alot just init self

Then I said "In case you want to take some AAS with testo" (wich I wouldn't agree), "I suggest you to switch deca with DHT's derivates "...
His problem is not losing hair or joint pain...I think it was clear. I'm sure that Deca is worse than Winstrol about ED/loss of libido, and if you're not agree with me , no problem..

i missed that post and i apologise for that , i thought you where telling him he needed all these things,
i do think winstrol is better then deca as far as ED goes i was never saying or said for him to take anymore drugs , i said he needs less right now untill he figures the problem out

And anyway you are the one that contradicts itself....

how so??? when all the advice i gave was to make it less complicated.....

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...33#post4534933


Few times a week. Let me guess...750mg/Sustanon a week ?

Just to remind you....The only short (faster) ester in Sustanon is propionate.....

i know whats in sust , and he was asking about shooting it every 3 weeks or a month in that post , and yes i think eth would give or should give more stable blood levels then sust would with weekly injections because of the prop ester in sust

Again, you don't know what you're talking about ....No offense.

[FallenWyvern]

i would get my blood work redone get evey thing checked , including your psa levels, then i would have a prostate exam done ( this could be your problem), by then you should have your blood work back go over the numbers , lower your test to 100 -200 mg's a week ad adex to lower your estrogan get retested in 4 or 6 weeks and adjust it from there.

I didn't read all the drama. Some of it was over my head. Above is good advice. Very simple.

DHT route might be a different alternative if the simple route doesn't work.

I had libido problems from my e2 getting too high from test. Adex fixed it for me.

[ZonaDave]

the problem is you don't have any test results to go by. the widely accepted weekly protocol for TRT is 100mg Test Cyp, 250IU HCG 2x/week and an AI if needed. this is obviously a starting protocol and changes are made by your doctor based on your symptoms and test results. your protocol has to be taylored to your body and particular needs. there are no "one size fits all" protocols.

test results will give you clues why your libido hasn't returned yet. my initial guess is your E2 is off the charts due to how much gear you're on right now.

i realize you're looking for some extra "enhancement" but you need to walk before you can run. meaning you need to get the "cruise" down before you "blast".

[ENraged]

Not even going to spend the time reading the back and forth as I can respond off the initial suggestion alone.
Testo your level of knowledge is commendable but complex is not always the best for someone that has not done all the research you have.
He could easily take Aromasin or something similar for a month or so then get retested.
your plan while Superior (but not without its faults sorry I don't view it as the perfect solution) is something he could look in to down the road once he has things under control.
Keep it simple, do the research and down the road if Warrior wanted to try something closer to your suggestion then he would be doing so based off knowledge not suggestion. JMO

[zaggahamma]

the problem is you don't have any test results to go by. the widely accepted weekly protocol for TRT is 100mg Test Cyp, 250IU HCG 2x/week and an AI if needed. this is obviously a starting protocol and changes are made by your doctor based on your symptoms and test results. your protocol has to be taylored to your body and particular needs. there are no "one size fits all" protocols.
test results will give you clues why your libido hasn't returned yet. my initial guess is your E2 is off the charts due to how much gear you're on right now.

i realize you're looking for some extra "enhancement" but you need to walk before you can run. meaning you need to get the "cruise" down before you "blast".

i bolded(highlighted) the moral to all the above, imo...

and all advice/experience is appreciated...we are all here to learn from one another including our own experiences....

fellas ....i turn the big 4-0 this month!

[StuckinFla]

Here is my latest blood work...as of 3/13/09 Doc just prescribed Arimidex but I hve not filled it yet...any opinions if I need it?

T3, Free = 328 range 230-420 pg/dL
T4, Free = 1.5 range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
Test Total = 533 range 245-1836 NG/DL
Test Free = 14.3 range 7.2-23.0 PG/ML
Estrogens, Total , Serum = 151 range 130 or less pg/mL (so Im a bit high)

estrogen 151

[ZonaDave]

estrogen 151

bingo! i think we have a winner!

[Testomaster]

Here is my latest blood work...as of 3/13/09 Doc just prescribed Arimidex but I hve not filled it yet...any opinions if I need it?

T3, Free = 328 range 230-420 pg/dL
T4, Free = 1.5 range 0.8-1.8 ng/dL
Test Total = 533 range 245-1836 NG/DL
Test Free = 14.3 range 7.2-23.0 PG/ML
Estrogens, Total , Serum = 151 range 130 or less pg/mL (so Im a bit high)

...read now the test results, sorry.
I don't see any wrong. I don't think your problem is the estrogen level wich is slightly above the norm . Me myself and people I know had estrogen level higher than yours (we did over 1000/Test a week) , never had ED.

The problem is with your testosterone level that should be much higher .
If you're doing 400 mg. a week , where your testo goes ?
Next time you check your blood don't forget DHT and SHBG.

[nalm]

your Estrogen is high, but i have to ask aswell if your taking 400mgs a week of testosterone , where is it going?? you would never tell by those numbers...
eitherway you need more detailed blood work done( unless you didnt post all the numbers,if thats the case then im sorry and you should .lol.)
If your not sure on what to get checked here is a list from the stickie at the top called HRT INFO PART 2,

Complete blood count and chemistry profile (to include liver-kidney function, glucose, minerals, lipids, thyroid (TSH) etc.)
Free and Total Testosterone
Estradiol (estrogen)
Progesterone
DHEA
PSA
Luteinizing hormone (LH)
Homocysteine

If you havent read all the stickies, you probably should, that is the best starting place for HRT your gonna find .

[SilverTest]

WTF ?? 400 mg per week and your test level is in the 500's ???

something is not right there bro , and to all others who said that you cant ge ED when on test , sorry but u r wrong , it depends on the person , i got it when my estrogen went tooooooooooo high , but i was using over a gram per week .

i question the quality of the gear that u r taking .

also , drop the deca like the bros told you , even if its not from the deca , at least you will know from which drug is the ED . dont mix up a cocktail of drugs , it becomes difficult to recognize from which one is the problem , happened to me.

[Warrior1700]

Warrior, You want your erection back ? Do like this :

1 - Drop your testosterone inj. to 200 mg. a week.
2 - Take some HCG during the cycle (250 IU twice a week or 500 IU once a week).
3 - In case you want take some AAS together with testo, switch Deca to any DHT's derivate like Primobolan ,Winstrol ,Masteron ,Oxandrolone...These AAS can't aromatize.
4 - Take 50 mg. of Proviron everyday, it will unleash your free testosterone from SHBG and it will work like an antiestrogen as well.
5 - Get some pd5 inhibitors .

Do like this and you won't need any antiestrogen....Don't forget that low estrogen levels can decrease libido as well.

Good luck.

Hey thanks Testo. I have not been able to start the Arimidex , my pharmacy said it was not covered by insurance but that is getting resloved as I write this.

But you are saying to take Proviron instead? and can I get Proviron with a prescription?

I have dropped the Deca completely. I can get HCG next week to start that. Should I keep the Cyp @ 200 a week then?



Is the high Estrogen possibly causing ED then or is that completely unrelated? I have the drive just the wood problem unless talking V.

Thanks all...

[Warrior1700]

Wow...I missed all the back and forth stuff..thanks to StuckinFla for reposting my current blood work, I was getting ready to re post it till I read more...

yea, I thot @ 400 cyp a week that the Test was low....thanks to all for your input , but some of it is a bit confusing...It.

For whoever said I have a lidido issue is not correct, I have a good libido, just having issues keeping an erection. Lately having a problem getting one or keeping it....

I am taking Viagra and that helps but sometimes still have issues finishing even taking that. mY original Q was can too much test cause ED, or is my Estro too high. I just got my Arimidex filled but should I even take that, or HCG ? Sounds like I should cut back to 2oo mg Cyp a week for HRT? Instead of 400 as a BB dose?

[Warrior1700]

your Estrogen is high, but i have to ask aswell if your taking 400mgs a week of testosterone , where is it going?? you would never tell by those numbers...
eitherway you need more detailed blood work done( unless you didnt post all the numbers,if thats the case then im sorry and you should .lol.)
If your not sure on what to get checked here is a list from the stickie at the top called HRT INFO PART 2,

Complete blood count and chemistry profile (to include liver-kidney function, glucose, minerals, lipids, thyroid (TSH) etc.)
Free and Total Testosterone
Estradiol (estrogen)
Progesterone
DHEA
PSA
Luteinizing hormone (LH)
Homocysteine

If you havent read all the stickies, you probably should, that is the best starting place for HRT your gonna find .

TSH, 3rd generation = 1.80 Range= 0.40-4.50 mIU/L
PSA, Total = 0.5
Total and Free test are listed in my other list. As well as the Estrogen.

I had the blood work 7 days after the 400mg Cyp, so just before my next inj. so I dont know if that would make a difference in where the test is going?

I dont see the other referances on my blood work...

[Warrior1700]

WTF ?? 400 mg per week and your test level is in the 500's ???

something is not right there bro , and to all others who said that you cant ge ED when on test , sorry but u r wrong , it depends on the person , i got it when my estrogen went tooooooooooo high , but i was using over a gram per week .

i question the quality of the gear that u r taking .

also , drop the deca like the bros told you , even if its not from the deca , at least you will know from which drug is the ED . dont mix up a cocktail of drugs , it becomes difficult to recognize from which one is the problem , happened to me.

Estrogen is 151...(too high)can that in and iof itself cause ED?

Deca has been dropped for 2 weeks now and I am getting it from a Dr, so unless they are ripping me off, I would guess its good Cyp.

Maybe I should go see an actual Urologist or Endo and get another opinion over the Dr I am usung currently for HRT....??

[Warrior1700]

Ok, so I got the Arimidex filled. Supposed to take 1mg pill a day 5 days a week for 20 pills...sound right or no?

[FallenWyvern]

No!
Zero estrogen is just as bad as high estrogen. I would do .25 EOD or .5 twice a week.

[Warrior1700]

No!
Zero estrogen is just as bad as high estrogen. I would do .25 EOD or .5 twice a week.

Right. I get that no estrogen is bad. Just dont know what dose will bring it down slightly from tht 151. They are very small pills, so I think 1/2 a pill will be the same as .5(1/2 mg I assume) twice a week will be easier...so for how long then?

[FallenWyvern]

I am on 200 mgs cyp and I take .5 twice a week always. If my bloodwork or mood/libido went sour, I would change.

[Warrior1700]

I am on 200 mgs cyp and I take .5 twice a week always. If my bloodwork or mood/libido went sour, I would change.

So this is your protocol? ...pretty simple. 200mg Cyp weekly and the .5 2x week? And then you adjust from there if you feel necessary? Are you still getting any bodybuilding benefits form the 200mg weekly? How old are you?

[FallenWyvern]

So this is your protocol? ...pretty simple. 200mg Cyp weekly and the .5 2x week? And then you adjust from there if you feel necessary? Are you still getting any bodybuilding benefits form the 200mg weekly? How old are you?

Yup.

My doc makes the adjustment according to my semiannual blood work. I got good bodybuilding benefits in the first six months. It has plateaued since then.

[smokethedays]

Warrior,

I had a problem similar to your after being on for 16 moths or more. Towards the end although I was on Test @ 100mg/week I had ED!!

I talked to my dr. and she said to get off everything so that we find the problem.
I did and started a massive PCT of 2500IU HCG every 4th day, 200 mgClomid ED reduced to 100 gradually.

I started my PCT 10 days ago, my Testies are half way up, libido is back, and no more ED.

Not sure what the issue is, neither the Dr, who was really interested in the issue. So my advice to you is:

Give your body a break to adjust its own hormonal system. Just my 0.02

Good luck

[ZonaDave]

Warrior,

I had a problem similar to your after being on for 16 moths or more. Towards the end although I was on Test @ 100mg/week I had ED!!

I talked to my dr. and she said to get off everything so that we find the problem.
I did and started a massive PCT of 2500IU HCG every 4th day, 200 mgClomid ED reduced to 100 gradually.

I started my PCT 10 days ago, my Testies are half way up, libido is back, and no more ED.

Not sure what the issue is, neither the Dr, who was really interested in the issue. So my advice to you is:

Give your body a break to adjust its own hormonal system. Just my 0.02

Good luck

what were your numbers when you had the ED?

[FallenWyvern]

Smoked situation is similar, I think he was on 500g+ for more than a year.

Get well buddy.

[Warrior1700]

Warrior,

I had a problem similar to your after being on for 16 moths or more. Towards the end although I was on Test @ 100mg/week I had ED!!

I talked to my dr. and she said to get off everything so that we find the problem.
I did and started a massive PCT of 2500IU HCG every 4th day, 200 mgClomid ED reduced to 100 gradually.

I started my PCT 10 days ago, my Testies are half way up, libido is back, and no more ED.

Not sure what the issue is, neither the Dr, who was really interested in the issue. So my advice to you is:

Give your body a break to adjust its own hormonal system. Just my 0.02

Good luck

I didnt think it was a good idea to completely stop Test. Since our testes have stopped producing. Shoudnt I go down over a period of time if I do?

I have been getting 400mg weekly for over 2 years...missing a week here and there...

along with 100mg deca which has been dropped for 6 weeks with no better results with finishing in the bedroom. No problem getting wood,(usually) but the issue with keeping it and finishing. With Viagra

I just starting the Arimidex @ .5mg 3x week. Should I start HCG then also...?

Are you going to start the Test back up when you're done with the PCT?

[Testomaster]

Hey thanks Testo. I have not been able to start the Arimidex , my pharmacy said it was not covered by insurance but that is getting resloved as I write this.

But you are saying to take Proviron instead? and can I get Proviron with a prescription?

I have dropped the Deca completely. I can get HCG next week to start that. Should I keep the Cyp @ 200 a week then?



Is the high Estrogen possibly causing ED then or is that completely unrelated? I have the drive just the wood problem unless talking V.

Thanks all...

The big anomaly of your blood works was about your testosterone levels ...

Test Total = 533 range 245-1836 NG/DL
Test Free = 14.3 range 7.2-23.0 PG/ML

Too low for using 400cyp./week. So where it goes ?

Do u ever check SHBG ?
This enzyme is important because it renders anabolics and androgens inactive.
Your androgens could be intraped into SHBG . In this case Proviron can help because it binds itself to SHBG leaving less SHBG to bind to the androgens in your blood.

You can get Proviron with or without prescription, it depends where u live. Not so easy to get on the american market while very popular in Europe/South America/Asia.


Personally I don't think your ED issue is related to high estradiol, the reason is that your estrogen levels are not so high to provoke ED. I would consider the eventuality of a vascular problem or a damage to the erectile tissue .

[Testomaster]

Warrior,

I had a problem similar to your after being on for 16 moths or more. Towards the end although I was on Test @ 100mg/week I had ED!!

I talked to my dr. and she said to get off everything so that we find the problem.
I did and started a massive PCT of 2500IU HCG every 4th day, 200 mgClomid ED reduced to 100 gradually.

I started my PCT 10 days ago, my Testies are half way up, libido is back, and no more ED.

Not sure what the issue is, neither the Dr, who was really interested in the issue. So my advice to you is:

Give your body a break to adjust its own hormonal system. Just my 0.02

Good luck

I guess we are not all the same about side effects...First time I heard that Clomid can treat ED . It has a devastating effect on my libido ad erection , I don't use it alone anymore.

I think 100mgTest./week is a very safe TRT protocol .
Has your doctor explained the reason for the lack of testosterone effect ?

[smokethedays]

I didnt think it was a good idea to completely stop Test. Since our testes have stopped producing. Shoudnt I go down over a period of time if I do?

I have been getting 400mg weekly for over 2 years...missing a week here and there...

along with 100mg deca which has been dropped for 6 weeks with no better results with finishing in the bedroom. No problem getting wood,(usually) but the issue with keeping it and finishing. With Viagra

I just starting the Arimidex @ .5mg 3x week. Should I start HCG then also...?

Are you going to start the Test back up when you're done with the PCT?

Although the tappering down of Test isn't popular anymore, I did that down from 400mg down to 200 then 100 mg.

I would really quit it all like I said and hit a mssive PCT:

HCG 5000 IU Every 4th day up to 6 weeks
Clomid 200 mg/ED for the 1st week, down to 100 mg/ED up to 6 weeks

[smokethedays]

Smoked situation is similar, I think he was on 500g+ for more than a year.

Get well buddy.

Thanx bro, I was on 400mg for 1.5 year but gettin' better with the PCT

[smokethedays]

I guess we are not all the same about side effects...First time I heard that Clomid can treat ED . It has a devastating effect on my libido ad erection , I don't use it alone anymore.

I think 100mgTest./week is a very safe TRT protocol .
Has your doctor explained the reason for the lack of testosterone effect ?

Im not on Clomid alone, Im on HCG as well.
My Dr. couldn't understand it. But it cant be Estrogen because I was on a very low dose in the last 8 weeks of the cycle..

But in Warrior's case, I'd suspect the abuse of Pro-Hormones has to do with it.

[ZonaDave]

Thanx bro, I was on 400mg for 1.5 year but gettin' better with the PCT

wow, why did you stay on 400mg/week for that long? weren't your numbers really high?

[Warrior1700]

I guess we are not all the same about side effects...First time I heard that Clomid can treat ED . It has a devastating effect on my libido ad erection , I don't use it alone anymore.

I think 100mgTest./week is a very safe TRT protocol .
Has your doctor explained the reason for the lack of testosterone effect ?

Meaning why @ 400mg a week my test is only 533? No, I havnt asked. Could I just be using it up or converting it? Is Test accumulative, I thot it's only good for about a week or 10 days after injection. Thats why we get it weekly?

[Warrior1700]

Im not on Clomid alone, Im on HCG as well.
My Dr. couldn't understand it. But it cant be Estrogen because I was on a very low dose in the last 8 weeks of the cycle..

But in Warrior's case, I'd suspect the abuse of Pro-Hormones has to do with it.

Pro-hormones like what?

[Warrior1700]

Too low for using 400cyp./week. So where it goes ?

Do u ever check SHBG ?
This enzyme is important because it renders anabolics and androgens inactive.
Your androgens could be intraped into SHBG . In this case Proviron can help because it binds itself to SHBG leaving less SHBG to bind to the androgens in your blood.


Personally I don't think your ED issue is related to high estradiol, the reason is that your estrogen levels are not so high to provoke ED. I would consider the eventuality of a vascular problem or a damage to the erectile tissue .

Where could the test be goin?

How is SHGB checked?

So would I want to go see a Urologist or an Endo?

[Testomaster]

Where could the test be goin?

How is SHGB checked?

So would I want to go see a Urologist or an Endo?

Part of your test. has been converted in estradiol , as blood test showed , and another part could be strongly binded to SHBG.

SHBG is checked by blood.

Before going to any urologist-psychologist-vascular specialist you have to fix your hormonal situation first.

If you mind about sex drive more than muscle growth my suggestion is to stop anything (since u said that the add. of AI didn't work ) and do like this :

1 to 8 week
MON-WED-FRI : 2000 IU HCG + 50 mg. Proviron every day + 0.50 Arimidex twice a week.

9 to 16 week
50 mg. Clomid every day + 50 mg. Proviron every day + 0.25 Arimidex twice a week.

In case this cycle won't help you must consider the possibility that your problem is not hormonal .