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  1. #1
    trix8 is offline Associate Member
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    Who doesnt use an ai or has high estro and it doesnt bother them?

    Anybody not use an ai or has high estrogen and but doesnt use an ai becuase it doesnt bother them?

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    I don't think it's a matter of "not bothering them". High E2 binds with T cell receptors rendering the T ineffective. So, if you're low T and your objective is to increase Total and Free T levels for all the reasons we know; then high E2 is not where you want to be...unless of course you want to go back to how you felt pre TRT.

    You will find men here, and elsewhere, who don't use an AI BUT their E2 levels are in acceptable ranges so they don't need it as part of their protocol. You need to test E2 and look for high E2 sides (high E2 sides suck like gyno, getting fat and emotional like a chick being just a few) ... but remember everyone is different.

    Just my opinion of course...

  3. #3
    trix8 is offline Associate Member
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    its just i remember when i cycled for gym purposes, i ran higher doses of test and i never had any libido problems but not on a lower dose, i feel like to get them now with ai's some times or even without them, prolly just gonna take very low dose ai so it wont effect tooo much

  4. #4
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    maybe if the question was tweaked to ..."how high is your e2 and still benefitting from your TRT and is it with the help of an AI or not?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    maybe if the question was tweaked to ..."how high is your e2 and still benefitting from your TRT and is it with the help of an AI or not?"
    Yea, the question was a bit awkward.

  6. #6
    trix8 is offline Associate Member
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    yea was a bit awkward question, my b. Anyway its just annoying when i cycled i ran highr amounts without an ai and never felt any negative sides, now i feel like i have to get it dialed in perfect for me to feel good

  7. #7
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by trix8 View Post
    its just i remember when i cycled for gym purposes, i ran higher doses of test and i never had any libido problems but not on a lower dose, i feel like to get them now with ai's some times or even without them, prolly just gonna take very low dose ai so it wont effect tooo much
    Bit confused by this, but if your E2 gets too low you will have libido issues. E2 has to stay in range . . . too low and you have issues, too high and you have issues. Unfortunately, the sweet spot seems to be a wide range for some and very narrow for others. I got low libido and had problems concentrating on an AI (only 0.25 twice a week), yet without it I get sore nipples. I tried stopping AI And dropping the amount of T I took and felt much better. Unfortunately, after 3 weeks I found I just wasn't recovering and the food cravings was coming back. So I am now back on 100 mg/week of T and 0.50 AI / week. Brain fog and low libido are back. Have appt with doctor next Wednesday so I will probably lower the AI dose even further.

    Maybe my low E2 brain fog explains why I'm a bit confused by your post.

  8. #8
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    Bit confused by this, but if your E2 gets too low you will have libido issues. E2 has to stay in range . . . too low and you have issues, too high and you have issues. Unfortunately, the sweet spot seems to be a wide range for some and very narrow for others. I got low libido and had problems concentrating on an AI (only 0.25 twice a week), yet without it I get sore nipples. I tried stopping AI And dropping the amount of T I took and felt much better. Unfortunately, after 3 weeks I found I just wasn't recovering and the food cravings was coming back. So I am now back on 100 mg/week of T and 0.50 AI / week. Brain fog and low libido are back. Have appt with doctor next Wednesday so I will probably lower the AI dose even further.

    Maybe my low E2 brain fog explains why I'm a bit confused by your post.
    all made sense to me except bold...new to me

  9. #9
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    I've been off of AI for about 3 weeks now, my endo suggested to stop Anastrozole and do a blood test 4 weeks later to see where my levels are without AI, then make a decision as to how much if needed. of course i would rather not be on it, but if the sides come in I'll take it without hesitation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    I've been off of AI for about 3 weeks now, my endo suggested to stop Anastrozole and do a blood test 4 weeks later to see where my levels are without AI, then make a decision as to how much if needed. of course i would rather not be on it, but if the sides come in I'll take it without hesitation.
    Hey Bass, why did your Endo want to discontinue your AI and want to re-test? What is your protocol? The levels that men take of Anastrozole on TRT tend to be very low even at 1 mg a week compared to women who survived breast cancer taking much more.

    AI is not a posion as we all know and helps us stay dialed in so our Free T is opimized...for those that need it.

    If a mans objective is to keep E2 at opimial levels so their Free T can do thier magical thing...then it's a blessing in my opinion for men who need it.

    Keep us posted on your testing and how you feel Bass!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Hey Bass, why did your Endo want to discontinue your AI and want to re-test? What is your protocol? The levels that men take of Anastrozole on TRT tend to be very low even at 1 mg a week compared to women who survived breast cancer taking much more.

    AI is not a posion as we all know and helps us stay dialed in so our Free T is opimized...for those that need it.

    If a mans objective is to keep E2 at opimial levels so their Free T can do thier magical thing...then it's a blessing in my opinion for men who need it.

    Keep us posted on your testing and how you feel Bass!
    Nice post

  12. #12
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    i was taking 1/2mgs per day and she was shaking her head in shock! i agree with you though, shes not against it but thought it was way too much and it was screwing with my lipid panel, thats why she want the blood work done and wants to dial it in based on the results. I'll keep you posted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    i was taking 1/2mgs per day and she was shaking her head in shock! i agree with you though, shes not against it but thought it was way too much and it was screwing with my lipid panel, thats why she want the blood work done and wants to dial it in based on the results. I'll keep you posted.
    Dear God that's a lot. That amount could tank your E2 levels killing libido and making you feel like crap. If E2 levels go to low it can be life threatening. E2 is not our enemy...only when to high/low.

    Keep us posted Bass!

  14. #14
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    believe it or not my e2 went up slightly while on AI! so i am not sure where i'll be in two weeks! i will keep you posted.

  15. #15
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    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.
    do you have the bloodwork that shows test levels and e2 levels on that dose?

  17. #17
    bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.
    my clinic said 1 out of 10 don't take AI, i guess you're one of those, lucky guy!

  18. #18
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    I talked to the Pharmacist that gave me my Test Cyp and she said it would ALMOST never convert to Estrogen. Key word there is ALMOST.

  19. #19
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EASTCOASTKID View Post
    I talked to the Pharmacist that gave me my Test Cyp and she said it would ALMOST never convert to Estrogen. Key word there is ALMOST.
    she's a moron

  20. #20
    The Toad's Avatar
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    Yeah, it was done a few weeks ago

    Testosterone 1179 249-836
    Estradiol, Sensitive 33 3-70

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.
    That's great man. The reality for a lot of guys is that E follows T and they can't get away from the aromatase enzyme. The older men get the greater the production... but there are always the lucky few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    she's a moron
    +1 on that!

  23. #23
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    While on 200/wk, my E2 was 20. No AI needed. Tried one for acne, so far hasn't helped. My theory is I am a DHT converter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arizona32 View Post
    While on 200/wk, my E2 was 20. No AI needed. Tried one for acne, so far hasn't helped. My theory is I am a DHT converter.
    Good chance. What's your libido like?

  25. #25
    bass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizona32 View Post
    While on 200/wk, my E2 was 20. No AI needed. Tried one for acne, so far hasn't helped. My theory is I am a DHT converter.
    thats great! how old are you?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.
    Some men are born with great livers and you are probably one of them! Good for you man!!!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdevine View Post
    Good chance. What's your libido like?
    strong, no problems

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    thats great! how old are you?!
    35 yrs

  29. #29
    meathead320 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by arizona32 View Post
    While on 200/wk, my E2 was 20. No AI needed. Tried one for acne, so far hasn't helped. My theory is I am a DHT converter.
    Interesting. That aint me unfortunately.

    Hmmm... what is your bodyfat% like most of the year?

    I have a theory that losing fat, or at least staying lean helps somewhat at lowering aromitase.

  30. #30
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Well, I got my 2nd bloodwork results. First, the baseline:

    Total T 473 (150-1100)
    Free T 57.8 (45 - 224)
    Avail.T 126.4 (110 - 575)
    E2 4 (< 30)
    SHGB 36 (18-47)
    Hemoglobin 16.7 (12.3-17.1)
    PSA 1.3 (<= 4)
    body fat 25%

    I was pinning 40 mg of Test C on Sunday AM and Wed PM for a total of 80mg/week. No AI. I was having sore nipples and gyno issues. Had puberty gyno.
    New results:
    Total T 739 (150-1100)
    Free T 141.1 (45 - 224)
    Avail.T 284.1 (110 - 575)
    E2 28 (< 30)
    SHGB 24 (18-47)
    Hemoglobin 16.8 (12.3-17.1)
    PSA 1.3 (<= 4)
    body fat 19%

    So at a E2 level of 28 I get sore nipples! How much does that suck. Looks like it's AI for the rest of my HRT life for me.

    Right after the bloodwork I moved up to 50 mg of T every Sunday and Wednesday (100 mg/week). I started AI of Anastrozole 0.25 mg 2x a week. Felt like crap because it drove E2 too low. Am now doing 0.15mg 2x a week and feel much better.

    The boys are also tender because of excess sac shrinkage, so starting 250 IU HCG 2x a week. So between the extra T and the HCG I should see a bounce in T blood levels.

    All things considered, and since I did bloodwork during the lowest levels day, I am happy. Not where I wanted to be but I had dropped my T protocol in a hope to avoid taking AI the rest of my life. Simply isn't going to happen so I'll stick with the 100 mg a week total, add HCG for the sensative boys, and should see even better T levels. Other than the temporary issue with E2 too low because of the AI I am feeling good and very happy with my progress.

    I'm not sure if the drop in SHBG is a good thing or a bad thing. I'll have to read up on that.

  31. #31
    bass's Avatar
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    excuse my ignorance with the abbreviations i am still new to this, E2 i am assuming is Estrogen, if so the normal range is 7.6-42.6!

  32. #32
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by bass View Post
    excuse my ignorance with the abbreviations i am still new to this, E2 i am assuming is Estrogen, if so the normal range is 7.6-42.6!
    Different labs will report different ranges. Mine states < 30. Most HRT specialists want to see the number at least 10, because under 10 will cause issues such as osteoperosis, along with other issues.

    Regardless of the normal range, if mine gets to 42 I would develop bigger tits than my wife has. I am sensative to E2. I am also sensative to low levels of E2 because I really feel like crap when the number gets low.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Toad View Post
    I am not on an AI. I have never had the need, my E2 levels have always stayed in good range (lucky I guess). I take 150mgs Test C ew.
    me as well,im on 600mg of test cyp every 10 days from my endo,and i have no issues with gyno,water etc...been on this dose for 7 months now,i was on 600mg every 14 days before but he changed the days in between because of the roller coaster ride,after my injection,my energy and libido would go down,start to taper down after the first week,so he changed it to every 10 days instead of 14 days,this i dont understand though,this dose seems more like a cycle dose more than a trt dose,but that was my Endo's decision,of course im on it for life,and have been for 4 years now,but never had any reason to take and A.I.

  34. #34
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye Forever View Post
    me as well,im on 600mg of test cyp every 10 days from my endo,and i have no issues with gyno,water etc...been on this dose for 7 months now,i was on 600mg every 14 days before but he changed the days in between because of the roller coaster ride,after my injection,my energy and libido would go down,start to taper down after the first week,so he changed it to every 10 days instead of 14 days,this i dont understand though,this dose seems more like a cycle dose more than a trt dose,but that was my Endo's decision,of course im on it for life,and have been for 4 years now,but never had any reason to take and A.I.
    unbelievably high dose for long term trt....how many labs have you run on this dose over those 4 years and can you post them up

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    unbelievably high dose for long term trt....how many labs have you run on this dose over those 4 years and can you post them up
    he stared me on this dose back in august of last year and ive had 3 blood test since then,i dont have the test on hand,but i do know the total test levels of all 3 blood test,275ng/dl was my first test,then my next one was 402ng/dl and my last blood test was last week and it was 487ng/dl......i will get a copy of all my blood work and post them up,i was sorta afraid to post up my dosage,cause of getting flammed,as i did on another site,but just being totally honest.My endo said that my body just required alot more test to get my levels at normal ranges,he explained it to me,but i really dont understand,and ive been to 3 different endos and all 3 have the same thing to say....when i started 4 years ago he put me on 200mg every 2 weeks and has increased slowly since then,before this 600mg dose,my levels were staying around 197-220ng/dl...very low

  36. #36
    GotNoBlueMilk is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Dude, what is your body doing with all that Test if it isn't holding onto it? Only thiing I can think of is your body is pumping the stuff out every orifice it can find. Your wife must be getting huge just from being exposed to your sweat and semen. People who drink the ground water from where your pee goes must be adding muscle mass like mad! Have your pee tested, then start selling it as a miracle cure for low T levels.

  37. #37
    zaggahamma's Avatar
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    definitely an interesting protocol/result...

    bullseye....so now that youve been steady at 600 either 14 or 10 days.....what have you noticed...good or bad...i see where you say no need for AI (which is what the op is asking) but it seems this large dose isnt keeping you at high levels(are you always doing bloodwork on the last day b4 injection?)...are u making gains/feeling good....?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotNoBlueMilk View Post
    Dude, what is your body doing with all that Test if it isn't holding onto it? Only thiing I can think of is your body is pumping the stuff out every orifice it can find. Your wife must be getting huge just from being exposed to your sweat and semen. People who drink the ground water from where your pee goes must be adding muscle mass like mad! Have your pee tested, then start selling it as a miracle cure for low T levels.
    I wish i could answer your question,seriuosly,my doctor explained that my body just uses so much of it,other than that man,i wish i could explain it,but im not a doctor

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpkman View Post
    definitely an interesting protocol/result...

    bullseye....so now that youve been steady at 600 either 14 or 10 days.....what have you noticed...good or bad...i see where you say no need for AI (which is what the op is asking) but it seems this large dose isnt keeping you at high levels(are you always doing bloodwork on the last day b4 injection?)...are u making gains/feeling good....?
    yea man i agree it is really strange and interesting to say the least,i wish i could understand it myself,im getting my blood work done in the middle of my injection times,every 6 months,i wish i could understand why my body wont get any higher levels,my doctor explains it,he just says that my body just uses alot of test and it has't to have it to keep the levels at least at in the mid range,i wish i could understand it better,i posted the same thing on another forum and got flammed pretty bad for the reasoning for the high dose,but in all honesty,im telling the truth.....i feel ok,my energy levels are ok,i am making gains,my appetite stays up alot which is good i guess and my strength has went up alot

  40. #40
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    200 mg/week and no ai

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