Major update for my test levels..got them in!! Wow im surprised

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 06:50 AM

hey guys i posted on here like 3 weeks ago about that i was getting chekd for test levels and i finally got results in...

Total test:349 (normal 348-1197??according to doc)
Free test:7.3(normal 8.7-25.1??according to doc??)

feedback pls.. they wanna give me Fortesta? a topical and i told them i would prefer injectable.. which one is better????? from wat i read on here the inject seems better but pls help me out guys..its go time!!! i cant believe im that low.. WOW... kinda depressed a little but it does answer some questions..

**sirupate** · 10-27-2011, 07:17 AM

Some guys do well on the topical and others do not. Topical is pretty expensive, depending on your insurance coverage. Are you up for self-injecting? There really isn't a clear cut answer to which is best, though guys here will say that the injectible is the way to go. Either way, start getting treated. Bet you feel a lot better in just a few weeks. Keep us posted as you get started.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 07:21 AM

i dont think ill have a prob with self injects .. maybe like 1/week or something.. from wat i read on here isnt it better to inject 1/week vs 1/2weeks etc?? also sould i investigate brands of test?? do they prescribe the same as AAS such as test E/test Prop/test Cyp?? and if so which one is best?? i suppose the prop if frequency is more often?? also will i need an AI? and any other possible factors?? my doc was just gonna give me a scrip over the phone.. i wanna talk to someone about all this..know what the deal is...

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 07:30 AM

A "typical" weekly start-up protocol would be:

100 mg Test Cyp (Injections)
1 mg AI
250 iu hCG 2x/wk (Injections)

I'd like to see your entire bloodwork...any chance you can post?

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 07:33 AM

i would but i dont have it they just called me on the phone this am.. she told me it was low and told me what they wanted to prescribe.. and askd me what pharmacy i used.. i had to ask her what the numbers were.. i was surprised.. they didnt even suggest another appointment.. they r just a regular doc though.. i think maybe i need to go to an endocrinologist so i can get some conclusive answers,, it seemd they wer just gonna call in the scrip and call it a day which is unacceptable to me..

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 07:45 AM

I'd be weary as well. You don't just jump into this like taking an aspirin for a headache.

The start-up protocol above is "fairly" typical. Did they discuss with you the options for taking Testosterone and why? Any discussion on why you need hCG on a TRT protocol? Do they tell you why you may need an aromatase inhibitor?

Endo may be the way to go; more importantly, make sure the provider you see understand complete TRT protocols and how to evaluate you once you start. Experienced Physicians can save you a lot of trouble.

Take this seriously, find the right care and most important of all; educate yourself! There are a number of good books on the subject that you can easily find and there are numerous websites with great information as well.

Most of the members here will be of great assistance to you as well.

**flatscat** · 10-27-2011, 07:48 AM

thats the new topical you apply to your pits.... it does seem to be able to be dosed better than the others - and less chance of cross-contamination - still not a big fan, but i dont think we have had any feedback on it. AND i bet your insurance will not cover it - no telling how freakin expensive it is....

**flatscat** · 10-27-2011, 07:49 AM

What kind of doc is this?

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 07:56 AM

no discussion about hcg or AI it was my own question to yall if thats standard or not?? i dont want any symptoms such as gyno and what not..

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 08:00 AM

this is just a regular doctor..

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 08:01 AM

actually a nurse practitioner.. i went there cuz i have to have referral to see and endo.. they ran blood and have not mentioned me seeing and endo but i think i should

**flatscat** · 10-27-2011, 08:08 AM

ah, okay, well as was stated, not the optimal educational process for you by the np, but don't look a gift horse in the mouth either - many guys in your boat have to search a long time for a doc to treat them through insurance (or pay out of pocket through a clinic).

let's hope the endo will work harder to determine your condition, and be AS willing to treat as the np who just got detailed on the fortesta was!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 08:15 AM

ok.. willing?? why wouldnt he be willing ? thats his freaking JOB!

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 08:17 AM

[QUOTE=--->>405<<---;5788213]no discussion about hcg or AI it was my own question to yall if thats standard or not?? i dont want any symptoms such as gyno and what not..[/QUOTE]

The good news here is that you are questioning the action your Doctor is taking and not doing anything till you are comfortable that you are getting the correct care...good for you man!

You need hCG ...make no mistake. A lot of members here started out with a Doc like yours and got all the neg sides of not taking hCG to backfill the pathways and keeping the testicles functioning since they were shut down. When they started it made all the difference in the world!

Most men on a TRT protocol will need an AI...nuff said.

Both hCG and an AI are important pharmacutics for a successful TRT protocol. If your current Doc isn't even discussing these with you then in my opinion it's a sure sign you have the wrong care...you don't want to get hurt as you stated.

Now that you know your are clincially low; find a Physician who understands TRT protocols...this is critical.

BTW, can you tell us more about yourself? Age, overall health history, weight, exercise, diet, mental state...?

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 08:33 AM

Never mind.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 08:57 AM

no prob on the stats..

37yrs
5'8" 201lb
20%bf

been doing alot of work in the diet section with some good guys in there.. got progress pics and what not ..have dropped 2.7%bf and 12lbs in 4 weeks and headed to hopefully below 12% at some point.. also hoping the test replacement will assist in fat reduction cuz my understanding is low t contributes to excessive fat storage..

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 08:59 AM

no prob on the stats..

37yrs
5'8" 201lb
20%bf

been doing alot of work in the diet section with some good guys in there.. got progress pics and what not ..have dropped 2.7%bf and 12lbs in 4 weeks and headed to hopefully below 12% at some point.. also hoping the test replacement will assist in fat reduction cuz my understanding is low t contributes to excessive fat storage...

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 09:36 AM

well im getting what appears to be a little static from the doc they just want to put me on the shot for 3 months and then have me come back in to recheck my levels.. i told her i thought it would be best to see an endocrinologist and she seemd to be a bit takn back by my insistance and said she was gonna have to talkj to the nurse practitioner to see if she was ok with that...WTF????????????????

i told her i didnt just want to start taking it before finding out about the potential for negative side affects and she seemd to be a bit irritated with me and said "u didnt mention this in our previous conversation are there any more questions u have before i go back there and talk to the doctor?" i said well there prob are but i just dont know them cuz im not a doctor which is why i want to see an endo!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 09:38 AM

she said they would usually send me to an enjdo after being on for 3 months and rechecking and if they were still low then they would send me to one.. im betting they just want tthe money and dont want me to let the endo make the money

**Vettester** · 10-27-2011, 09:48 AM

Your response is another reason why it's best to deal with a specialist in this area. First time HRT patients should have a checkup appointment in 6 weeks, then look at going back 3 months after that.

Also, your lab results belong to you, no questions asked. I would call and have them email/fax/snail mail, or whatever method it takes to get them into your hands. I would get them ASAP, post the results, then you will get some educated responses.

**boxingfan30** · 10-27-2011, 10:19 AM

I've never been on any kind of test, so I don't have first hand knowledge, but I can say that my Father used the gel for a few years and not only did it not bring his test levels up to anything worth mentioning... he HATED putting that stuff on everyday. They wound up implanting power pellets, which his Endo was later not very happy about considering he has been a heart patient. I told him that I would just do the injections which he said he would rather do.

Perhaps the new gels are better, but the Androgel is very sticky and he said it took forever to soak into his skin.

My Pharmacist did tell me they now have a pill out that will dissolve under the tongue? Supposed to be fairly new I think. I'd still rather do injections myself.

**yannick35** · 10-27-2011, 10:37 AM

I am on androgel right now it would cost me 148$ for 30 days at 1 pouch a day. After insurance it will cost me 33$. I have to take 2 times 5g per day for maximun dosage so 66$ per month.

The injectibles i think are a lot cheaper, and i will try to get a prescription for it Nov 2.

I also feel that androgel is a pain, not very sticky but you need to rub half a pouch on your arm and shoulder, wait till it sinks in then rub the rest of the pouch. Then you need to stay shirtless for 15 minutes or so to make sure that clothing don't rub some off.

It smells the alcool but other then that its not that bad. I have doubt about how effective the gels are. I have read many reviews on testim and androgel and most people switch to injections, androgel is slow acting. For me its too soon i have been on for a week and been told it takes 3 weeks to see an effect. So far nothing tough.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 12:05 PM

apparently where i live theres only 3 endocrinologists here and its gonna take 2 months to get in to see one.. would it be advisable to do the shot in the mean time or am i gonna have potential for probs?? i talkd to my insurance and the type of injectable is depo testosterone aka test cyp

**boxingfan30** · 10-27-2011, 12:14 PM

yeah, my Father didn't use a pouch... they measured his in the pumps from the bottle. He was up to 3 a day. His test after all that time never got over the mid 250's.

**boxingfan30** · 10-27-2011, 12:17 PM

I really wouldn't do just a shot if you still have your gel. BUT again... I myself have never done it. Shots are much more potent and you'll probably crash... plus if you do the shot, it might not give the Endo the right reading, and they may not be willing to give you as much as you actually need. Just a thought though... like I said, the ones who are on it can certainly give better advice.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by boxingfan30

I really wouldn't do just a shot if you still have your gel. BUT again... I myself have never done it. Shots are much more potent and you'll probably crash... plus if you do the shot, it might not give the Endo the right reading, and they may not be willing to give you as much as you actually need. Just a thought though... like I said, the ones who are on it can certainly give better advice.

WTF?

There are some Docs "in the know" that add one pharmaceutic at a time when administering a TRT protocol as it provides them a way to conduct close evaluations and know what to add, how much to add and when to add to get your dialed in. It's a conservative approach for some but a proven approach.

You can take the shots now and get an eval in two to three months from an endo. They will know you are on a TRT protocol and will have expectation for elevated Test panels and possible increases in other assays like E2. If the Endo is experienced in TRT protocols they will know how to dial you at that time.

Again, the key here is that the endo you do hire must know TRT protocols; please don't assume that because they are endocrinologists they know correct TRT protocols...many don't.

One option is to see if your current Doc is open to consult with Crisler. If so, that would be your best option in my opinion. Your Doc will learn correct TRT protocols, how to evaluate you and how to make necessary adjustments and at the same time you get the proper care. It's a win/win scenario.

**yannick35** · 10-27-2011, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by boxingfan30

yeah, my Father didn't use a pouch... they measured his in the pumps from the bottle. He was up to 3 a day. His test after all that time never got over the mid 250's.

Pff what a joke, feedback like this i have read a tone and a half, serious for some people to start getting results some where up to 6-8 pumps a day.

405 i have been offered 3 choices, injections, pills and gel. I did steroids in the past, i had someone to inject me so it was all good, now i am all alone, i do not thurst my girlfriend do inject my in the glutes, this is why i chose the gel. Sound thing to do would have to go home and reseach it before, but my medical doctor was very convincing. I don't want to take testosterone in pill, i feel the impact is too hard on the liver. The injection for me is testosterone enhantate, i feel its one of the best out there too. I still feel you should wait to get a prescription for your T and not do this on your own. At least to be check. I will have T check every month for 4 months to re-evaluate my status and make sure everything goes well.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 12:32 PM

yeh i didnt mean just do 1 shot i meant get on the shot for 2 months to get levels back up while waiting to see the endo.. but i see what ur saying about it affecting my levels although he should be able to determine based on how much theyre giving me and for how long its been where i need to go from there i would think.. also i have a buddy whos on 400mg test prop every 2 weeks.. hes been on it for 2 months and has to go bak to the doc in like another month.. they didnt give him anything to go with it.. is this normal?????????? i suggested he only do 200mg every week instead of 400 every 2... ???

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 12:36 PM

i need to clarify.. im not gonna get it on my own i was askn if i should just wait 2 months to see an endo and do nothing or go with this doc just to get in my system while waiting for endo appointment???

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

yeh i didnt mean just do 1 shot i meant get on the shot for 2 months to get levels back up while waiting to see the endo.. but i see what ur saying about it affecting my levels although he should be able to determine based on how much theyre giving me and for how long its been where i need to go from there i would think.. also i have a buddy whos on 400mg test prop every 2 weeks.. hes been on it for 2 months and has to go bak to the doc in like another month.. they didnt give him anything to go with it.. is this normal?????????? i suggested he only do 200mg every week instead of 400 every 2... ???

No it's not normal; way too much per injection. Your buddy must be on a hormonal roller coaster for God's sake.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 12:52 PM

who is mario?? u guys r confusing the hell outta me..i appreciate the input but how bout not hijacking my thread and posting ur own or posting in ur own.. im just trying to find out if i myself should go ahead with the doc i just went to who wants to give me a scrip for the shot so i can go ahead and get it into my system while i wait 2 months or longer to see the endocrinologist.. is that a good idea or not? do i need to run an AI or serm or hcg or whatever while on for lets say 3 months when i can finally see the very busy endo?? will running the test affect his ability to properly diagnose and treat me?? thx..

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

who is mario?? u guys r confusing the hell outta me..i appreciate the input but how bout not hijacking my thread and posting ur own or posting in ur own.. im just trying to find out if i myself should go ahead with the doc i just went to who wants to give me a scrip for the shot so i can go ahead and get it into my system while i wait 2 months or longer to see the endocrinologist.. is that a good idea or not? do i need to run an AI or serm or hcg or whatever while on for lets say 3 months when i can finally see the very busy endo?? will running the test affect his ability to properly diagnose and treat me?? thx..

Sorry man, it was a error. Corresponding with some one else and had his name on my mind.

I do believe I answered your question, however, above.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 01:06 PM

No prob Gd .. R u referring to post 26? If i do it until i see endo (poss 2 or 3 months ) with no other substances am i gonna run the risk for gyno or my nuts shrinking up or anything else i dont know about??

**Vettester** · 10-27-2011, 01:39 PM

See if you can't gather your lab results and post them up. Hopefully they ran the gamut on labs, including PSA, LH/FSH, DHEA, etc. GD is right, just because they're an endo doesn't make them a pro. I had an endo a few years ago that made my life miserable. Didn't believe E2 could ever elevate, and stated that free/bio "T" had no relevance when doing labs. I would start gathering info. on places like Crisler's clinic and others, and get yourself prepared to make some moves if needed.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-27-2011, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

No prob Gd .. R u referring to post 26? If i do it until i see endo (poss 2 or 3 months ) with no other substances am i gonna run the risk for gyno or my nuts shrinking up or anything else i dont know about??

Yes, 26.

IMO, you do run a risk albeit it may be small.

Generally speaking, and dose dependent of course, men don't begin to see testicular atrophy right away, takes months before they start to see any sign of early shrinkage and the pain associated with it. Some men can go a year or even longer before they see any shrinkage...probably more to do with age. I think you could go a few months and be ok but that's just an opinion, I am not a Doctor.

As for your E2, that's going to depend on a lot of variables like what your current E2 levels are now, how your body metabolizes exogenous Testosterone , body fat...many things. Some members here can go a long time before they need an AI (a few never even need it) and some can't go more then 2 months and the neg sides of high E2 hit them hard.

Like I said 405, you can probably get the shots now, watch for negative sides, and wait to you see your endo in a couple of months and be ok. But like I said at least twice now in this thread, you must make sure the endo you end up seeing understands correct TRT protocols and knows how to administer hCG and an AI where warranted or you may find yourself stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If your looking for a difinitive answer from members here that probably won't happen. What you will get are rational and experienced responses; but in the end you will need to make the final decision.

BTW, do you think your current Physician would be open to consulting with Dr. Crisler?

That's the way to go IM, 405!

**--->>405<<---** · 10-27-2011, 03:06 PM

ok thx for all ur help

i think im gonna just wait to see endo before getting on test

**--->>405<<---** · 10-28-2011, 12:52 PM

ok to see if i understand correctly.. when having high bf and taking AAS this board says dont do it cuz of negative sides.. but what i dont understand is does that not apply when the test is used for TRT? and why is that?? also from my understanding TRT can cause reduction in bf but not so if used as AAS?? would someone mind explaining or is this a question for the steroid forum?

**BigBadWolf** · 10-28-2011, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by --->>405<<---

ok to see if i understand correctly.. when having high bf and taking AAS this board says dont do it cuz of negative sides.. but what i dont understand is does that not apply when the test is used for TRT? and why is that?? also from my understanding TRT can cause reduction in bf but not so if used as AAS?? would someone mind explaining or is this a question for the steroid forum?

The purpose of trt is to bring your test level into the normal range. Usally 100 ml a week for trt. 500ml a week and high bf you will be alot more prone to nasty sides.

**--->>405<<---** · 10-28-2011, 02:09 PM

also have an update on my trt situation.. gonna go ahead and get on the test cyp starting wednesday and the doc im seeing i will talk to then about monitoring as well as theyre going to expedite my appointment with the endo so i wont have to wait so long to get to see him.. would yall suggest me doing the cyp 1shot/week as opposed to 1shot/2 weeks etc???

**Titleesq** · 10-28-2011, 02:26 PM

^^^^Ideally you would want to split your injects into a 2 x week protocol. If that is not feasible at the moment, and your choice is to inject either once a week or once every two weeks, I would definitely recommend injecting once a week to obtain more stable levels and to avoid the dreaded roller-coaster effect.

Good luck to you!!!