6 Wk BW, any opinions would be appreciated

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 03:11 PM

I just got my 6 week bloodwork results this afternoon. I'm 43, and just started my injections six weeks ago. My initial total testosterone was 155. Dr prescribed 300mg Test Cyp every two weeks. I decided to do 150mg every week (in reality, I'm probably giving myself closer to 125ish every week). No AI or HCG , etc. No other Rx meds or conditions.

The only initial testing I had done was total test, so I have nothing to compare the other results to.

My results;

Testosterone, Serum 340 (348-1197) [was 155 six weeks ago]
Testosterone, Free 7.51 (5.00-21.00)
% Free Testosterone 2.21 (1.50-4.20)

PSA .5 (0.0-4.0) [was also .5 six weeks ago]

IGF-1 219 (101-267)

Estradiol, Sensitive 38 (3-70)

The only other results that were high/low are the following;

RBC 5.67 (4.10-5.60)
Glucose, Serum 101 (65-99)
Triglycerides 176 (0-149)
HDL Cholesterol 31 (>39)

Just ask if there's anything else that might be relevant.

**Mario L** · 12-01-2011, 03:25 PM

I'm not an expert here but I'm surprised your total and free were so low on 150mg per week. Unless you are injecting once a week and had your BW done on day 7. Your body could be metabolizing the test fast. You might be one of those on trt who needs a higher dose. What did your doc say?

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 03:27 PM

I don't see my doc for a couple more weeks. But I'm also a little disappointed that my test was still fairly low.

But yes, I had the blood drawn on my injection morning. Was that a bad idea?

**lvs** · 12-01-2011, 03:36 PM

What was your Free T 6-weeks ago? How is your diet?

**JAMIE07652** · 12-01-2011, 06:04 PM

How do u feel now ?

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 06:26 PM

I feel better for sure. But I can't help but wonder if I'd feel even better if my numbers were higher. They still seem to be on the low end.

**JAMIE07652** · 12-01-2011, 06:35 PM

Well that a great start , feelin better . I shouldnt say this bbbuuuuutttt , I got my guy to bring up my dose by not taking my full shot on test week , and bitching that I was feelin like crap . Like you , my test was lower then I thought it should be . Im now prescribed 200mgs a week , but Im only take 175 and feel the same ! ... great ! ..

**JAMIE07652** · 12-01-2011, 06:38 PM

and why are u only take 125mg when u have 150mg prescribed ? ... start there and take your whole dose ?

**ecdysone** · 12-01-2011, 06:42 PM

Two thoughts:

what is your weight?

how are you injecting?

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 06:49 PM

I'm 6'5", 300 pounds (and trying to lose)

I'm injecting IM in the glutes

**ecdysone** · 12-01-2011, 07:13 PM

OK...cool, that explains the dosing. Your "volume of distribution," essentially what the test will "experience" is dependent on a number of factors, and body mass is one of them.

For a big guy like yourself, and the fact you are fairly young (don't over respond to test) I would have guessed a good dose would have been on the order of 200-250mg/week.

You just need more, simple chemistry.

Mix in some HCG and the levels would have been even higher.

**Brohim** · 12-01-2011, 08:09 PM

Hey bro try taking your full dose 150mg on Monday and shoot 250iu of HCG on Sat. and Sun. That will up your serum level's. Your e2 is in range 30 would be better than 38 though.

If no HCG then you can up dose to 175 and split it. Might have to watch for e2 at that level. Guys report better sense of well being with the addition of HCG however. I would try to procure some of that.

**JohnnyVegas** · 12-01-2011, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

OK...cool, that explains the dosing. Your "volume of distribution," essentially what the test will "experience" is dependent on a number of factors, and body mass is one of them.

Can others chime in on this? I always thought that was false, but just realized that I have never actually read anything on it. Hell, I'm gonna try to remember to look that up while I am doing cardio.

**ecdysone** · 12-01-2011, 08:28 PM

OK, let me put it this way: inject a couple hundred mgs into an elephants ass and tell me what he experiences

**Brohim** · 12-01-2011, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Can others chime in on this? I always thought that was false, but just realized that I have never actually read anything on it. Hell, I'm gonna try to remember to look that up while I am doing cardio.

BW has nothing to do with how fast your body metabolizes testosterone . Everyone is different.

**Brohim** · 12-01-2011, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by ecdysone

OK, let me put it this way: inject a couple hundred mgs into an elephants ass and tell me what he experiences

We are talking about hormones not calories. That is faulty logic. Now if one man that is fat might need more AI because he converts more test to e2 than a leaner man. Endocrine system has to do with liver functioning as well. Everyone is different.

**Drmagic** · 12-01-2011, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas

Can others chime in on this? I always thought that was false, but just realized that I have never actually read anything on it. Hell, I'm gonna try to remember to look that up while I am doing cardio.

Have never seen research on this, doubt it is true though. Like everything else, there is a bell curve where most people fit - for my patients that is 120 - 150 mg per week, then there are the outliers - hyper or hypometabolizers that when I test them on day 7 they are low or high. I have a hand full of patients who use 200 mg per week and maintain high normal levels and a handful who take 50 - 75 mg per week and maintain high normal levels and it doesn't corelate with body mass, this is where the art of medicine comes in. Nutrition, exercise, gut health, stress all play a role here the key is to treat everyone as an individual and give them what they need, not just a canned treatment protocols. Even for a given individual treatment changes over time.

**fit2bOld** · 12-01-2011, 09:22 PM

DFWO, I think rather important the dose needs to be exact and consistent "125ish" How can blood work be true if you can't verify whats been taken in order to adjust accordingly.
Recommend a consistent dosing schedule and retest of blood work.
Injecting 75mg 2x a week instead of 150 a week may also give you a better result and as Bro stated adding HCG will also increase serum T

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Brohim

Hey bro try taking your full dose 150mg on Monday and shoot 250iu of HCG on Sat. and Sun. That will up your serum level's. Your e2 is in range 30 would be better than 38 though.

If no HCG then you can up dose to 175 and split it. Might have to watch for e2 at that level. Guys report better sense of well being with the addition of HCG however. I would try to procure some of that.

Eventually I'd like add in HCG, but it's a no-go for my current doctor.

**dfwo** · 12-01-2011, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

DFWO, I think rather important the dose needs to be exact and consistent "125ish" How can blood work be true if you can't verify whats been taken in order to adjust accordingly.
Recommend a consistent dosing schedule and retest of blood work.
Injecting 75mg 2x a week instead of 150 a week may also give you a better result and as Bro stated adding HCG will also increase serum T

I'm just struggling getting a consistent amount in the syringe. I could be doing a better job, and it's something I'll focus on with my next injection. But I just try and get it about halfway between the .5 and the 1cc mark.

**dfwo** · 12-02-2011, 03:01 PM

bump...

**bass** · 12-02-2011, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by dfwo

I'm just struggling getting a consistent amount in the syringe. I could be doing a better job, and it's something I'll focus on with my next injection. But I just try and get it about halfway between the .5 and the 1cc mark.

get 1ml syringes if you have to, or switch to SQ injection, much easier and painless. i am injecting 60 mgs twice a week and my total test about mod range and my free test was at the top and slightly higher than normal range!

**Brohim** · 12-02-2011, 04:15 PM

yes BD ultrafine II 31 guage 5/16 needles brotha! Hocks.com

**dfwo** · 12-02-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by bass

get 1ml syringes if you have to, or switch to SQ injection, much easier and painless. i am injecting 60 mgs twice a week and my total test about mod range and my free test was at the top and slightly higher than normal range!

I read that thread. I might ask my doc for a Rx for smaller syringes and try that.

**steroid.com 1** · 12-02-2011, 05:30 PM

I really can't add to what's already been said here...but...here's what going to happen unfortunately:

No hCG = No backing filling of the pathways so all CHOL pathways suffer. Your Testicles will begin to hurt and it won't stop. They will continue to get smaller and your sack will get tight and not only will it look pretty trippy but it will soon hurt as well as it pulls tight against the body.

No AI = Most likely continued escalation of E2. You will begin to feel like crap and present all the ugly sides of high Estradiol levels. More importantly, however, as the E2 increases your Testosterone levels will continue to drop lower and lower doing it no good to you (aromatization).

What gets me is at 150 mg a week to be at the bottom of all three Test serums is a bit perplexing. I am wondering if what DrMagic stated: Hypermetabolizer.

**dfwo** · 12-02-2011, 07:58 PM

Last question for now, I promise.

If my current doc just refuses on the AI or HCG , how difficult is it to find on my own?

**dfwo** · 02-08-2012, 11:39 PM

Well, after 6 weeks of consistent 150mg injections EW, my total test level is 452 ng/dl (348-1197).

I'm 44, and that still seems a little low to me.

**bass** · 02-08-2012, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by dfwo

Well, after 6 weeks of consistent 150mg injections EW, my total test level is 452 ng/dl (348-1197).

I'm 44, and that still seems a little low to me.

probably because your e2 is way high along with your SHBG! read post #25 by GDevine! you need AI and hCG !

**Flier** · 02-09-2012, 05:56 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

I really can't add to what's already been said here...but...here's what going to happen unfortunately:

No hCG = No backing filling of the pathways so all CHOL pathways suffer. Your Testicles will begin to hurt and it won't stop. They will continue to get smaller and your sack will get tight and not only will it look pretty trippy but it will soon hurt as well as it pulls tight against the body.

No AI = Most likely continued escalation of E2. You will begin to feel like crap and present all the ugly sides of high Estradiol levels. More importantly, however, as the E2 increases your Testosterone levels will continue to drop lower and lower doing it no good to you (aromatization).

What gets me is at 150 mg a week to be at the bottom of all three Test serums is a bit perplexing. I am wondering if what DrMagic stated: Hypermetabolizer.

Originally Posted by bass

probably because your e2 is way high along with your SHBG! read post #25 by GDevine! you need AI and hCG!

He is referring to his Total Test being low.
The level of E2 will determine his Free Test level, not Total.
Am I right?

dfwo, you´re big guy. Big ass? What size syringes are you using?
If your needle is too short only reaching fatty tissue, could that affect the release of the Test?

**kelkel** · 02-09-2012, 09:17 AM

Valid points above. Everyone is going to respond at different rates and maybe the op just need a little more time? Like gd said, definitely add the ai and hcg . Still early in this venture for him.

Doc, good to see you back. Thought you bailed on us!

**bass** · 02-09-2012, 11:14 AM

[QUOTE=Flier;5893422]He is referring to his Total Test being low.
The level of E2 will determine his Free Test level, not Total.
Am I right?

dfwo, you´re big guy. Big ass? What size syringes are you using?
If your needle is too short only reaching fatty tissue, could that affect the release of the Test?[/QUOTE]

many of do SQ injection, it doesn't matter where the test is injected, it will still end up in the blood stream but at a different rate.

**dfwo** · 02-09-2012, 02:25 PM

I'm still waiting on the free test and E2 results. But on my last BW my E2 was 38 (3-70). I started a thread at the time and everyone seemed to agree on waiting on the AI and HCG .

And I'm not sure on the size of my ass. I'm injecting with a 1.5" 23g needle, so I feel like I'd need a harpoon to go any deeper.

**Flier** · 02-09-2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by dfwo

I'm still waiting on the free test and E2 results. But on my last BW my E2 was 38 (3-70). I started a thread at the time and everyone seemed to agree on waiting on the AI and HCG .

And I'm not sure on the size of my ass. I'm injecting with a 1.5" 23g needle, so I feel like I'd need a harpoon to go any deeper.

Lol..so you´re good.
I was just thinking if u inject in fatty tissue, the Test would release faster and u would experience unstable levels.

**dfwo** · 02-09-2012, 02:40 PM

well, I was hoping for it to be a littler higher. I started at 155, then went to 340, and now 452.

**Flier** · 02-09-2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by dfwo

well, I was hoping for it to be a littler higher. I started at 155, then went to 340, and now 452.

Ok, I would follow the TRT protocol for 6 months before I would make any adjustments. Let everything compound and settle. You´re throwing off Homeostasis, and taking charge. The body will take some time to get the message.