Test levels still low after 1,000iu HCG EOD

[ANIMAL]

Short and simple background. I was young and dumb back in 09 and stayed on for a lot longer not knowing the consequences (that's what you get for just listening to your friend and not doing your own research). I know my mistake and have learned a lot since then... unfortunately the damage has been done.

I stopped at the beginning of 2010 and was struggling throughout the whole year, basically feeling like I was on an emotional roller coaster with zero sex drive. Spring of 2011 I did a cycle of Test prop (12 weeks), Anavar 60mg ED (12 weeks) and Mast (6-12 weeks). Did a correct PCT with HCG and gave it 6 weeks before I got my blood tested. Found an awesome doctor and got my full panel tested. Everything came back perfect except for my test levels. They were at 231. So he issued me a round of HCG at 1,000iu EOD for 20 days with nolvadex ED and then re-test my test. I did that and got tested and my test came back 280, still low. So we are doing another round of HCG and nolva in hopes to get my own body to jump back on without TRT.

My question is, if this doesn't work and I have to go on TRT is that it for me? I wish I knew then what I know now, how to cycle, my diet, my lifts etc. but I can't change that. So instead of living in the past I'm just staying positive for the future. Will I ever be able to go on cycle before, is there concern of shutting myself down even more? I'm just curious as to what people do once they are on TRT. If I don't ask this I'm always going to wonder. I just want to get myself back to feeling "normal", but want to know about life during/after TRT.

Thanks for any help.

[lvs]

How old are you? Sounds like your doctor is doing the right thing by trying to restart your system. At this point I would follow his guidance and treatment and just hope you don't have to be on TRT for life especially if you are in your 20s. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out.

[JD250]

Your doc may be wise to try what he is trying. If I'm reading your post correctly you're asking what TRT is like......well, it IS for the rest of your life but it's not the end of the world in fact it has some advantages, your test levels will always be in the optimal range, you can cycle and just return to your normal protocol without any PCT, you'll likely find yourself in better physical shape then before from the CONSTANT higher test levels, wood will always be good, I'm sure there are other things that I can't think of at the time..

Post up a complete blood panel and a few stats.,

[bass]

well if the second round of treatment doesn't get you back then its TRT for sure. no sense of looking back, you are here now and just look forward like you said. post your stats and blood work with ranges as well. we'll be here to help you get your life back one way or the other...

[brazilian86]

I'm 25 yrs old and am on TRT for 3 months now and I feel very good. Nice weight gain, strength, libido.
I like it, specially that I Have Chrons Disease, so I am eating with no problems.

I think it's the way to go if your system doesn't start up...

[moparmuscle]

Give the restart a good try and if it dose not work then TRT

[ANIMAL]

25
5'5
159-162 lbs
10-12% BF

Thanks for the replies everyone. I will call up today and get them to fax over my complete panel and post it on here.

Yea I was just curious if I ever wanted to jump back on a cycle would I be out of my mind to do so being in my situation now. I've read with the TRT that one should be taking HCG along side an AI as well, is that true?

When I went to my last visit to the doctors he said he would do spurts of TRT to see how my body would react to it... although I'm not quite understanding that. If I was to do x amount per week for x weeks and then stop wouldn't my test levels just go back down to what they were?

I'm eager to start up this HCG and see where it takes me, although I'm a bit pessimistic (I'm a very optimistic person too). Just feel like we are delaying the inevitable.

I'm actually in the best physical shape of my life right now which I can't explain, other then my diet being on point as well as my training (even better then when I was on gear throughout 2009, I was just big and bloated, I didn't diet correctly). I could only imagine with higher test levels how much more focused, better attitude, sex drive would be... feel like I've been missing out for the past 2+ years.

[Sicko]

Hopefully the HCG helps you bounce back. If it doesnt, at least you have found a doc who sounds like he is aware of trt and it is benifits. That is more than half the battle..
Good luck...

[kelkel]

^^^without question, the biggest hurdle is finding the correct doctor!

[ANIMAL]

Yes, I agree. I've been to 4 doctors, the first 3 said "i did this to myself" and wouldn't help me (didn't know anything in regards to gear. the first guy just told me to stop doing anything and I would be fine). Finally the 4th doctor I found through research was the one. He explained it to me like this, "do they tell alcoholics they "did it to themselves... no, they have help for them to get back on their feet. I'm not here to tell you what you did was wrong. We are where we are now and we will get you back on your feet."

Without even telling him what I wanted to test, he knew exactly the tests I needed (as I checked in the blood section), so I knew I was in the right hands.

I pick up the next round of HCG/nolva tomorrow. He wants to see me reach 350ish on the test levels on my own without TRT... although I really want to be between 500-600.

[steroid.com 1]

I find it a rare occurrence when hCG as a mono therapy has worked successfully.

Worth a try but not likely IMO.

bass's point is well taken; move forward and don't look back and you will be much better for it!

[Lemonada8]

If your LH is fine and hcg didnt boost then the problem may lay with ur testes, which is alot harder to fix.
Stay with what ur doc says sounds like he knows what he is doing

[ecdysone]

^^^^^^^^^^
This

Have you tracked your LH/FSH levels during the restart therapy?

[ANIMAL]

Hey guys,

Sorry it took so long for me to get my lab results. I finished my 2nd round of HCG and I go for blood work to check Test levels tomorrow morning. I don't think the 2nd round did the trick. I do have more energy and have a more positive attitude, but my sex drive is still hiding like obama... hopefully we can find it with TRT lol

I asked the doc what would happen if my test levels were still low, as far as injection or other method... He said he likes to use Androgel on younger guys. He said it would only be for 4 months at a time, also using an AI as well as HCG in the whole process providing I still want kids. Which I am checking my sperm count as well tomorrow.

So here are my results prior to taking any HCG:

Ranges are in parentheses

T4 8.0 (4.5-12.5)
Free Thyroxine 1.04 (.65-2.3)
TSH 1.16 (.4-4.0)
T3 uptake 29 (24-35)
T3, total 89 (84-172)
Free T3 2.5 (2.1-4.9)
FT4 index 2.3 (1.1-4.6)
Thyroid Peroxidase 16.0 (0-35)

glucose 102 (70-100)

FSH 2.94 (.7-11.1)
LH 1.5 (.8-7.6)

dhea-sulfate 321 (35-430)
prolactin 15.6 (2.5-17)
progesterone .3
estradiol 22 (<50)

Testosterone, total 276 (262-1593)
Free Testosterone 7.03 (3.8-34.17)

igf-1 181 (63-373)
Sex Hormone Binding Glob 24 (10-50)

If any more information is needed please let me know and I will post it. I figured I'd type it out and if I needed to scan the papers then I would tomorrow at work.

[steroid.com 1]

b23 - Please use the edit button and add your ranges.

Without it's very difficult for us to make any assessment.

Ty.

gd

[ANIMAL]

Post updated. Do I need to put units in there as well?

[ANIMAL]

After the 1st round of HCG here were my results:

LH 4.9 (1.5-9.3) (they made a new reference range)
FSH 5.4 (1.6-8.0)
Prolactin 9.3 (2.0-18)
Testosterone, Total 281 (241-827)

Estradial, LC/MS/MS 32 (<29)
IGF-1 239 (63-373)
Sex Hormone Binding Glob 24 (10-50)

[SEOINAGE]

I have to say you are kind of lucky your doctor sounds like he is willing to take care of you properly. Ai and HCG isn't easy to get for some of us even though we have stated we want to have children.

[bass]

well, looks like TRT time! try talking your doc to do injections. i don't know the reasoning behind 4 months! TRT should be continuous and for life, not cycled.

[ANIMAL]

well, looks like TRT time! try talking your doc to do injections. i don't know the reasoning behind 4 months! TRT should be continuous and for life, not cycled.

He said I could do the injections if I wanted to. Is the androgel not good?

[bass]

for most it works okay in the beginning and then it stops! at least this is what we've learned from others who used it. most of us prefer shots because they are more consistent and more effective.

[ANIMAL]

What's a normal dosage throughout the week for injections? Is it usually cyp or e? once or twice per week?

[Brohim]

most are on injection's. Bass is correct in that the gel may work for a while but sometimes looses effectiveness due to not being abosorbed as well over time. You could try it and see and if it doesn't work then go to the shot's. Or you could start off with the shot's right away.

[Brohim]

usually cyp in America w/ doses starting at 100-150mg per week with HCG and an AI if needed. Most start on 100mg/wk and get blood tested at 6 weeks then adjust dosage as needed.

Most protocols are 80-200mg per week with HCG and AI. Just takes a while to dial in the amount; your doctor will work with you on this after reviewing your blood test's.

[bass]

^^^^ what he said, and for better consistency most of us do twice a week.

[ANIMAL]

Just got the test results from my last blood work after the end of my 2nd run of HCG.

Test before 2nd run: 283 (262-1593)
Test after 2nd run: 484 (262-1593)

He was very happy to see how much my test jumped up. He wants to go another round of HCG since it seems to be working. He much rather stick with this then put me on TRT at such a young age.

I feel a little more energy but my sex drive is still lacking. Hopefully another round will get me closer to the 600 mark.

[kelkel]

That's great B. An over 200 point jump. How was your free T this time?

[ANIMAL]

Last time it was 7.03, I forgot to make a copy of the results, so going off of memory I think it was around 8.4 but I could be completely wrong. What should that number? I know I should be around 600 on the total test.

[bullshark99]

B23, looks as if you got some good advice already, and I will let others chime in on your blood who are more knowledgable than I, but dont beat yourself up over mistakes of the past, a great number of us are hear because of that. Life is all about learning from mistakes and making sure you dont do them again. Above someone said find the right Doc, sounds like you have, Graet, screw the one's that said "you made your own bed, deal with it". Pay especially close attention to JD250 post above, as I beleive he is dead on! TRT, by far not the end of the world.

[bass]

thanks for the update B23, good progress. and i agree you have a good doc!

[ANIMAL]

Just wanted to give an update. Finished up my 3rd round of HCG and nolvadex. Here were my blood results:

LH 4.7 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH 3.2 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)

Testosterone 908 (250-1100 ng/dL)

Test, Free 168 (35-155 pg/mL)

[big_ron]

Thats great news! where the bloods done while you where on HCG? i believe the levels will drop once you stop taking the hcg, would be good to see the levels then

[ANIMAL]

Thats great news! where the bloods done while you where on HCG? i believe the levels will drop once you stop taking the hcg, would be good to see the levels then

last blood work was done 2 weeks after last injection. I never did bloodwoork while still taking the hcg.

[Brohim]

Just wanted to give an update. Finished up my 3rd round of HCG and nolvadex. Here were my blood results:

LH 4.7 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)
FSH 3.2 (1.6-8.0 mIU/mL)

Testosterone 908 (250-1100 ng/dL)



Test, Free 168 (35-155 pg/mL)

wow! That is quite impressive number's. Wonder why it took so long to work? Were you on the same HCG and nolva amount all 3 rounds? How do you feel now? HCG Is supressive so when guy's are on a high amount they usually have to take an AI. Did you get any e2 number's?

[big_ron]

last blood work was done 2 weeks after last injection. I never did bloodwoork while still taking the hcg.

Oh thats good!

[lovbyts]

Very nice, good to hear things are working again. Now be NICE to your body, you might not be so lucky next time.

[ANIMAL]

wow! That is quite impressive number's. Wonder why it took so long to work? Were you on the same HCG and nolva amount all 3 rounds? How do you feel now? HCG Is supressive so when guy's are on a high amount they usually have to take an AI. Did you get any e2 number's?

I can't get over the jump between the 2nd round and the 3rd round. Took the same nolvadex and HCG all 3 times. My mind is clear and I have an overall great attitude. No I don't have any e2 numbers, what is that?

Very nice, good to hear things are working again. Now be NICE to your body, you might not be so lucky next time.

Yes! I couldn't agree more.

Now, onto the next, most important question... what cycle do you guys think I should run now? LOL jk

I have ZERO plans on running anymore cycles. Not that I don't think I would do it correctly this time around after all the research and reading I have done but just because I'm literally in the best shape I've ever been, lifts are great, my diet is down pat... I really couldn't be happier.

I do plan on staying on this forum, to share my experience and help educate people.

[Brohim]

so your protocol was 1,000iu EOD and how much Nolva?

Glad you are feeling better. Are you going to keep with the HCG or discontinue? Did you ever get a baseline Test number before your cycles?

[ANIMAL]

so your protocol was 1,000iu EOD and how much Nolva?

Glad you are feeling better. Are you going to keep with the HCG or discontinue? Did you ever get a baseline Test number before your cycles?

20mg Nolva ED and 1,000iu EOD of the HCG.

I am not going to take anymore HCG. The doctor said if I experience any symptoms that I had been feeling prior to the 3 runs of HCG to come back in and we would check my levels.

Yes, 1st blood results before any HCG my test was at 223 (now at 900).

[n2lopez]

What state do you live in?

Short and simple background. I was young and dumb back in 09 and stayed on for a lot longer not knowing the consequences (that's what you get for just listening to your friend and not doing your own research). I know my mistake and have learned a lot since then... unfortunately the damage has been done.

I stopped at the beginning of 2010 and was struggling throughout the whole year, basically feeling like I was on an emotional roller coaster with zero sex drive. Spring of 2011 I did a cycle of Test prop (12 weeks), Anavar 60mg ED (12 weeks) and Mast (6-12 weeks). Did a correct PCT with HCG and gave it 6 weeks before I got my blood tested. Found an awesome doctor and got my full panel tested. Everything came back perfect except for my test levels. They were at 231. So he issued me a round of HCG at 1,000iu EOD for 20 days with nolvadex ED and then re-test my test. I did that and got tested and my test came back 280, still low. So we are doing another round of HCG and nolva in hopes to get my own body to jump back on without TRT.

My question is, if this doesn't work and I have to go on TRT is that it for me? I wish I knew then what I know now, how to cycle, my diet, my lifts etc. but I can't change that. So instead of living in the past I'm just staying positive for the future. Will I ever be able to go on cycle before, is there concern of shutting myself down even more? I'm just curious as to what people do once they are on TRT. If I don't ask this I'm always going to wonder. I just want to get myself back to feeling "normal", but want to know about life during/after TRT.

Thanks for any help.