Here's my BW on testogel

**edmundo22** · 06-06-2012, 09:34 AM

Bump, finding out what this info means is near life or death for me need your input on this guys ASAP.

**zaggahamma** · 06-06-2012, 09:43 AM

Oestradiol and estrodial(e2) are the same animal

**zaggahamma** · 06-06-2012, 09:45 AM

The number 37 itself looks fine...its the range that makes it look low and the range is suspect not the number

**edmundo22** · 06-06-2012, 11:25 AM

Thank's for that JPK can finally breath again. Just double checked with the bio chemistry lab, that's the estradiol range they use so according to them at 37 pmol/L I'm under the normal E2 low range.
Only other range I could find was wikapedia which says the range is 50-200 pmol, would like to think I can at least trust the bio chemistry lab that says I'm under.

Is it because of the measurement used yee can't give me your opinion or just that its 40-160?, if so could someone just post up a standard pmol/L range cuz I can't find one online.

One last thing, can taking test ever push e2 levels down cuz when I show this to GP tomorrow he's gunna assume my current E2 is due to taking test.

**HRTstudent** · 06-06-2012, 11:32 AM

Ok, well that estradriol seems to be below range but only slightly. But my somewhat secondary concern is that it was most likely not the sensitive or ultrasensitive test that virtually ever male HRT doctor recommends that I have read about.

Regardless, I don't think it would be out of range.

Another note is, what exactly were you on? Maybe you were just starting but FSH:2.8 mIU/ml and LH:2.9 mIU/ml would be expected to be less than 1 and probably nothing.

Bottom line, if you feel ok and are not getting gyno then you have nothing imminent to worry about with your TRT.

**zaggahamma** · 06-06-2012, 11:44 AM

one of my e2 ultra sensitve ranges was 10-50 pg/ml and i was sittin pretty at 19

dont know how that would convert to pmol

**edmundo22** · 06-06-2012, 11:47 AM

I was told on this forum if E2 is either to low or to high its gunna mess you up it needs to be balanced in the middle, according to the range I'm not just low I'm beneath low, trust me I'm feeling a hell of a long way from ok this past few months while on TRT.

I only had 6 good weeks on TRT which was 5 months ago, I figure if my E2 was out of wack to begin with then taking test isn't gunna make a difference and if the endo had found this to begin with I would never have started TRT.

JPK I'm holding the result in my hand and it's definitively in pmol/L, <37 (40-161), its also highlighted in bold to show its out of range.

**zaggahamma** · 06-06-2012, 12:23 PM

yes u dont want too low either

somethings telling me the 37 is pg/ml as none of us have seen the weird range before

**kelkel** · 06-06-2012, 02:32 PM

If that's "total estrogen" then it is not valid for adult males. Sensitive assay needed.

**edmundo22** · 06-06-2012, 02:45 PM

I asked for sensitive assay, it says estradiol serum is that total estrogen kelkel and why would that not be valid? Does the range from wikipedia 50-200 also strange?, could it just be im in ireland and we have different ranges mesurements ur not used to seeing?, shit, sorry I honestly thought my location was showing up in my posts

**edmundo22** · 06-07-2012, 06:17 AM

Let's just say for discussion sake the range is correct, what syptoms would you expect with deficently low e2? I asked my doc would this be the reason for having zero libido for 12 years he said probably, then asked could this be the cause of my depression n mood swings he said maybe

**zaggahamma** · 06-07-2012, 09:40 AM

yes those are symptoms of low e2

i wonder wut would cause low (out of range) e2 without an AI use...i've seen low normal but not low below normal

wonder if theyre putting salt peter in yalls drinking water across the pond

**zaggahamma** · 06-07-2012, 09:41 AM

i mean beer and whiskey

**edmundo22** · 06-07-2012, 10:14 AM

Nope JPK just good old fashioned fluoride, just came back from my GP, different doc from the guy that did my bloods, just like u guys he thought the range must have been for women so he rang the lab who confirmed its for an adult male, its possible someone at the lab is a ****in retard but lets hope that's not the case.

My doc doesn't really know much himself he said low estrogen is a good thing but then I told him if its beyond normal low its as bad as having it too high, he doesn't believe that a E2 result like this can cause the symptoms that I mentioned.

So if the range is correct is the first time any of u guys have seen an E2 result like this?, is this an abnormality?, am I that special??

He's going to confer with the head endo here but my worry right now is she isn't gunna have a clue about male HRT as Iv read on here alot of females endos don't and she will end up telling my GP everything's fine and my GP will end up telling me to stop pursuing this.

Man, I know its not normal to feel like shit 24/7 everyday of the week month after month but I'm not gunna stop if I can get something corrected that's causing all this, it would be great to be in the hands of a professional who knows what there at, shouldn't have to be figuring out all this by myself.

Iv been staring at this thread for the past 2 hours waiting for a response, would love to get some feedback from the vet's on this.

**edmundo22** · 06-07-2012, 01:29 PM

Don't mean to come across as the fat girl who got stood up at the prom but bump...

**zaggahamma** · 06-07-2012, 03:58 PM

lol...ur aight

we feel your pain

no judging...its some serious shit

wish could do more

**Vettester** · 06-07-2012, 05:58 PM

Ed, your 37 pmol/l should = approx. 10.8 on pg/ml scale.

Obviously stop any AI's if you were doing them (I thought I read where you said you got some liquidex, but I could be wrong?). I would still like to see other hormone panels upstream; specifically pregnenolone, DHEA & DHT.

Stay active with finding a doctor that can help you with this. Start adding some oregano, grapefruit, and a little soy to your diet.

**kelkel** · 06-07-2012, 06:03 PM

^^^There's your plan Ed. And don't feel bad, I was at less than 3 once with my E on a sensitive scale. do you still see the fat girl?

**edmundo22** · 06-08-2012, 05:06 AM

Vette yes I got liquidex but never used it, got my DHEA it's there, they never gave me cortisol which was written down along with sensitive assay, I honestly don't think the lab tests for these here.
There's plenty of menopausal women out there who need there estrogen increased so I'm assuming there's something that as the opposite effect of liquidex.
Like I said my GP is getting in touch with the head endocrinologist here so that's the best doctor I'm going to get.

I do feel better on the gel but far from great right now, really want to believe I'ts just a matter of getting my E2 in range to start feeling better again.

Nope no more fat girl kelkel Ty guy's

P.S: In regards to online sources is it usually the case you have to buy in bulk?, need to get off this gel (allergic) and pretty broke right now.

**Vettester** · 06-08-2012, 09:10 AM

Broke and HRT are not a good combination. A scale of prioritization will be imminent to make this work.

**zaggahamma** · 06-08-2012, 09:18 AM

i'd be homeless if i could have my vial

**edmundo22** · 06-08-2012, 09:34 AM

Trust me this is and as been for the past 5months my only priority, beside the fact I'm allergic the shots will be way cheaper so is it a common thing for sites to only sell in bulk? and again will getting my E2 sorted out really make that much of a difference cuz my doc doesn't think so and I'm worried the endo will say the same thing.

**edmundo22** · 06-08-2012, 01:42 PM

Please let me know on the above my life kinda depends on the significance of this e2 result, its been 3 days since Iv asked, desperately waiting for confirmation, is the result significant in regards to how I'm feeling and will getting it in range make a big difference???

The blood test was taken 5 months after TRT so my E2 could have been much lower then this

**edmundo22** · 06-09-2012, 04:30 AM

The fat girl bumped this not me.

**zaggahamma** · 06-09-2012, 05:27 AM

lol is there still a question sorry

**edmundo22** · 06-10-2012, 12:40 PM

Yup just read above^^^^^^^^^^

**Vettester** · 06-10-2012, 01:39 PM

Ed, first, let me say that I sincerely enjoy your posts, and I know all of us want to see you achieve optimal well being. However, you need to quit putting us on the spot with these "life and death" references. I understand you're not in a good place right now, I truly do, as I've been there just the same. If you are genuinely in a position where self inflicted harm is going through your mind, then PLEASE get with a professional in your area to work it out.

Now, regarding your situation ... Is it all hormonal related?? I don't know. Part of me wonders if there's also some other psychological issues that could be attached to all of this. What I won't dispute is that your E2 is on the low end, and based on your testosterone panels I would think that it (E2) should be higher. What I'd like to see is a DHT panel. Suspicions that the gels have been elevating your DHT, thus limiting your E2 conversion, could be wrong though. Don't know if we ever saw any cortisol labs either?

If you're switching to injections, that might change it up to get better E2 conversion. Again though, for the meantime, add the food products I mentioned in the earlier post. Get with your doctor (or a new doctor) and run the DHT thing up the pole. There's a multitude of ways to get your E2 normalized, so don't freak out. Take a deep breath, relax, and just start thinking where you want to be with all of this down the road, and what steps are needed to get there.

**edmundo22** · 06-10-2012, 04:09 PM

Vette Honestly don't mean to put anyone on the spot when I say It's near life or death just speaking out of desperation and urgency, sorry if I came off any other way, been trying to find info on low estradiol online and the only thing that seems to come up is guys using AI's which leads me to believe that natural low estradiol is quite rare and is referred to as aromati sation deficency so I'm actually optimistic about getting my E2 where it should be to start feeling well again and getting a boner when appropriate.

**Vettester** · 06-10-2012, 05:16 PM

Ed, just hang in there a bit ... The body is always in a constant state to find homeostasis, and I'm sure yours is no different. Find a way to get the DHT lab. Something is keeping your conversion at check, and at this point it leans towards DHT being the potential culprit. Can you get the doctor to order this lab? Do you guys use the online places like privatemdlabs.com for doing it yourself?

**kelkel** · 06-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

Vette Honestly don't mean to put anyone on the spot when I say It's near life or death just speaking out of desperation and urgency, sorry if I came off any other way, been trying to find info on low estradiol online and the only thing that seems to come up is guys using AI's which leads me to believe that natural low estradiol is quite rare and is referred to as aromati sation deficency so I'm actually optimistic about getting my E2 where it should be to start feeling well again and getting a boner when appropriate.

I've yet to find the inappropriate time!

**edmundo22** · 06-11-2012, 07:56 AM

Already asked for DHT, I'll do my best to get it again, my doc showed me the hormone check list they use here for BW here, sensitive assay and cortisol weren't even on there so he wrote them down but still didn't get them.

Kelkel how were you feeling when your E2 was at 3?

**kelkel** · 06-11-2012, 08:37 AM

Main complaint was joints hurting. In retrospect libido was off too. Now with no adex on normal trt I run at 15-16 steady confirmed by 3 months in a row testing.

**edmundo22** · 06-11-2012, 08:48 AM

Was your E2 low for just a short period?, do you think your symptoms would have got a lot worse if left unchecked?

I'm amazed at just how little info there is out there on low estradiol but the bits that I do find all say the same thing, depression (estrogen levels directly effect serotonin, wondering is it the same relationship with testosterone and dopamine), no energy and no libido.

**edmundo22** · 06-12-2012, 05:44 AM

Hey guys where exactly do I need to get my E2 in ng/dl and how does that translate to pmol??

**edmundo22** · 06-12-2012, 10:09 AM

My doctor just rang to say the endo doesn't think the result is off any significance so I don't know what to do, what do you guys think?, is the endo right on this?
Please help me out here.

**HRTstudent** · 06-12-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

Hey guys where exactly do I need to get my E2 in ng/dl and how does that translate to pmol??

depends on the range you use... but the general guideline is in the "20's" depending on the test of course.

Originally Posted by edmundo22

My doctor just rang to say the endo doesn't think the result is off any significance so I don't know what to do, what do you guys think?, is the endo right on this?
Please help me out here.

tell him that response is not of any significance! lol what worthless trash.

tell them you would like the results faxed to you. then you can look it over and decide what might be significant. but surely do not just blow me off with nonsense like that. I'm almost tempted to think the guy never looked at it lol... who would say that to another doctor? also, I went to an endo who told me my growing bitch tits were not of any significance. thanks for the tip dumbass!

lesson is: you are your #1 health advocate and this will not change in your lifetime.

good luck man. be vigilant. the beginning is the hardest.

**edmundo22** · 06-12-2012, 12:31 PM

My doc says the endo had to check the medical literature as she didn't even know at first, she then said she had found nothing to suggest my result of 10.8 pg/ml would have any negative impact and there for there's no cause for treatment. I know I'm my No.1 health advocate but I don't even know if the result is significant and these are the people who are writing the scripts and shes the head/only Endo in my area.

Asked my Doc can I just try to raise my E2 to where it should be and if my mood/ libido/ morning wood all improves then happy days but he said no it might do more harm then good, and again the E2 was taken after 5 months on TRT so can only assume it was lower before this. I'm done with this GP...

**edmundo22** · 06-13-2012, 01:43 PM

Can someone please chime in as to whether or not the low E2 is significant in regards to how I'm feeling? Endo doesn't think so thought you guys might know better, 5months on TRT no longer experiencing any benefits from it so is it the E2 that's deflecting my high test level??

This is really important for me to find out.

Thanks guys.

**edmundo22** · 06-13-2012, 04:19 PM

Just give this a little bump, does anyone even know?

**Vettester** · 06-13-2012, 06:36 PM

Ed, I can't say that I would be in a happy place sitting at 10.8 on the E2. The best thing you said was that you were through with that GP. This I agree on. Find a new doctor, run your DHT lab, see if that's the ticket that's holding up your E2 conversion. If you're switching out to injections (which I think you said you were), then that might change the outlook. Put your emphasis into getting a new doctor that can do this for you.