Here's my BW on testogel

**edmundo22** · 06-16-2012, 05:19 AM

Have an appointment for Monday, will get DHT done if it can be, endo's not going to help me on this so the best I can do is try and get prescribed whatever estrogen replacement cream there is, is it progesterone?, don't suppose anyone knows much about this in terms of dosage etc?

Just desperate to sort this out at this stage, doubt anyone on here knows about estrogen replacement in men, doctor doesn't know, endo doesn't know, very little info online, aromatisation deficiency, not enough testosterone being converted into estrogen.

I'm pretty much on my own with this.

If DHT is responsible how does that get fixed??

**edmundo22** · 06-16-2012, 05:20 PM

deleted

**Vettester** · 06-17-2012, 12:39 AM

If you changed from gels to injections, that itself could redirect the conversion process to start producing higher levels of E2. Also, if your DHT is high, there are treatments that will manage it. However, I would give the body a chance to adjust first if you are indeed going on injections. Your body will in most cases be trying to achieve homeostasis.

Quit the getting drunk stuff! If your body is going through this crisis, do you think flooding it with poison is going to help? And Ed, sorry, but TRT isn't the "be all, end all" for a perfect life. It is only one component of a multitude of variables that you need in order to function properly. Alcohol will only add toxicity to the desire to find well being and optimization. I know, I was there at one point in my life.

**kelkel** · 06-17-2012, 11:14 AM

Ed, like Vette said, switching to injections will lower your DHT levels. When I switched it was due to very high DHT levels. One month after switching my DHT level dropped in half to what I consider a good level.

**edmundo22** · 06-17-2012, 05:27 PM

Sorry just back from a night out with that last post. I'll order shots online as soon as I can as doc says this is a no go, I'll order the DHT test again not even sure if they do them here.

Also started carbergoline today, not sure what to expect...

**edmundo22** · 06-23-2012, 05:55 AM

Here's a line from Dr. Crysler's guide to TRT success " To end the debate on this topic, transdermal T gels/creams are more likely to elevate estrogen than injections "

Is this right?
I'v made a post on allthingsmale about my situation I'm sure yee guys are sick of hearing about it.

**zaggahamma** · 06-23-2012, 08:11 AM

Debate over? Eh idk...let's just keep it an ongoing journal...e follows t majority of the time and we r all individual with how so so thus we should treat ourselves accordingly

**edmundo22** · 06-23-2012, 10:53 AM

The carbergoline is effectively treating the depression that Iv had for the past 14 years for which I'm very grateful for, if it wasn't for this forum I would never have know about it so thank you Vette and Gd for that. Iv told every doctor in the past I have had zero libido for God knows how long, Iv only been researching all this myself these past 5 months but how hard is it for a doctor to figure it out?

I'm just about ready to make my order for injections, think with the depression out of the way I can now focus on a successful TRT protocol, will get BW 6 weeks after first injection and hopefully will see a healthy rise in E2.

The response I got on allthingsmale was Gels give better conversion and even more so if I apply to fatty areas?

**edmundo22** · 06-23-2012, 05:24 PM

I think the only way to raise my E2 is if I raise my test from 850 to 1000, if I got it up to 850 on gel do you reckon it would be much higher from injections?

What do you guys think?

**zaggahamma** · 06-23-2012, 05:49 PM

all good u thanked all that helped u best of luck here out

**zaggahamma** · 06-23-2012, 05:50 PM

reckon so?

**edmundo22** · 06-23-2012, 06:19 PM

I was only thanking vette n gd for putting me on to carber, I'm very grateful for all the help I have got on here including yourself JPK

**Vettester** · 06-23-2012, 06:47 PM

Hmmm ... I've seen more of an opposite effect from gels with the E2 conversion, being that some see to be more prone to have increased 5A-R conversion to DHT, thus lacking sufficient E2 conversion from testosterone . Increasing your total serum level isn't the way to go. You will just be getting other sides and complications. the 850 serum isn't broken! Fix what's broken, leave what's fixed alone.

So, the same question stands, did you run a DHT panel? Also, I thought I read somewhere that you were going take some sort of compounded estrogen cream? Maybe that was someone else ... Anyways, glad the caber is helping. Don't get carried away with it, as it's a very potent compound.

**edmundo22** · 06-24-2012, 05:41 AM

I doubled checked with the lab they don't check for DHT in Ireland sorry. If I knew women's estrogen cream would do the job I'd get it tomorrow, seems a bit out there but do you think this is a good route for me and if so how would I get the dosage right?

Second question is lowering DHT through injections going to increase E2?

**edmundo22** · 06-24-2012, 01:15 PM

Vette I read your wifes on HRT thought maybe you might have some insight into estrogen replacement?

**Vettester** · 06-24-2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

Vette I read your wifes on HRT thought maybe you might have some insight into estrogen replacement?

Yeah, but the big degree of separation is that it's BHRT for females. There are many more variables involved in her regiment than what goes into mine, as her doctor manages the amount of application based on cyclical phase (follicular, ovulation, luteal). Her last E2 lab was at 194 at ovulation, and that's just middle of the road. Her compounded estrogen and progesterone is very potent (just ask my cat). She also takes 8mg of test cyp ew. Ed, you really don't want to be dinkering with this estrogen stuff unless you have a DAMN good doctor overseeing it. And I can't envision a damn good doctor prescribing estrogen replacement therapy to you.

Surely DHT testing can be found in the country of Ireland? Again, you need to find the problem (which could be DHT) and fix it at that level.

**kelkel** · 06-24-2012, 05:54 PM

Ed, DHT is a natural estrogen blocker via about three different pathways. So probably yes but we are all unique.

**edmundo22** · 06-25-2012, 05:33 AM

Sweet, I've been reading up on DHT and a lot of guys who experience high DHT on gels all seem to get a lot hair growth on the belly, iv noticed this myself not much growth elsewhere. Know I need BW to confirm it but It's still a good indicator. Deleted

**kelkel** · 06-25-2012, 11:09 AM

Ah, extortion. Now that's a different tactic. Be careful there.

**Vettester** · 06-25-2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Ah, extortion. Now that's a different tactic. Be careful there.

I was just going to mention this is just clearly extortion.

I think I've exhausted myself on this thread ...

**Vettester** · 06-25-2012, 11:35 AM

Not to mention the posing as a doctor bit.

Ed, truthfully I don't want to participate on a thread that suggests criminal activity.

You know things like this can potentially get your thread locked?

**edmundo22** · 06-25-2012, 12:03 PM

Honestly wasnt thinking extortion, the guy screwed me over pretty badly I paid him 250 for a consultation that never took place and when I tried to contact him to have bw done he sent me an email saying he no longer wanted to have further engagements with me, the whole thing was suspect from the start only had contact through emails and the secretary had a mobile there was no landline, the e-mail I sent him was just why the TRT was no longer working and could he write me a script of cyp and told him I was dropping the complaint, wasn't Hi give me a script and Ill drop the complaint.

**edmundo22** · 06-30-2012, 01:25 PM

Hate to drag this thread back up but just a quick update, Iv been off TRT for the past 3 weeks due to the gel allergy and it won't be for another two weeks till I get on injections, is this ok??, wouldn't dream of doing this if If the carbergoline wasn't working so well.

**edmundo22** · 07-05-2012, 08:26 AM

what needle is good to inject cyp?

Also my test in coming in 250 mg vials, I only need to inject 60mg weekly how do I measure this?

Thanks guys.

**zaggahamma** · 07-05-2012, 09:40 AM

.24 ml will be your target my Irish friend

**zaggahamma** · 07-05-2012, 09:41 AM

been using 23guage 1 and a half for 7 years always gluteus maximus with no problems

**edmundo22** · 07-05-2012, 02:22 PM

Nice one JPK.

**edmundo22** · 07-07-2012, 12:31 PM

So I've been off TRT 5 weeks now, Gotta say I'm pretty damn depressed but no where near as severe as when I was on TRT without carber which is still making me nauseous on week 3, no energy completely wrecked, package is coming this week so hopefully all Will start to work out after my first injection and if I get to experience horny again I'm going straight to a prostitute this time.

**edmundo22** · 07-08-2012, 02:50 PM

Hmmm, so this is crashing, gotta say this is a lot of fun, feeling super, postal service hurry the F up.

**edmundo22** · 07-12-2012, 05:23 AM

Package came today, It's in 1 ml Amps 250 mg, not sure exactly how I measure 60 mg?

**zaggahamma** · 07-12-2012, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by edmundo22

Package came today, It's in 1 ml Amps 250 mg, not sure exactly how I measure 60 mg?

wtf

u dont trust me???

geeeeeeeeeeeeeez

lol/jk

.24 is the measurement my bro that is ROUGHLY 1/4 OR 1CC, or 1/4 of 1ml (cc and ml are the same) and 1/4 of 1ml/cc at 250mg per ml is a little over 60mg LIKE I ALREADY TOLD U

.......

.24 is the exact

do u need someone else to x2 my math?

**edmundo22** · 07-12-2012, 08:24 AM

Cheers for that JPK, just my head is currently up my ass, now I have to try and get hold of a syringe, the saga continues.

**edmundo22** · 07-12-2012, 09:00 AM

The local needle exchange only has 29 gauge 1ml syringe's will this suffice?

**edmundo22** · 07-16-2012, 04:36 PM

I read a post on allthingsmale with a guy with the same problem, he had to add large doses of HCG and DHEA to get is E2 up, what do you guys think about this?

**zaggahamma** · 07-16-2012, 09:31 PM

same thing bro

same thing

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelax a little

**zaggahamma** · 07-16-2012, 09:31 PM

ggggggggggggggggggggoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogggg gggggggggglllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

is

your

friend

**edmundo22** · 08-05-2012, 02:06 PM

Sorry for dragging this thread back up just wondering is it possible my LH 2.9 as gone down lower since the last blood test?, its only 50 mg testim gel per week, does HTPA always get completely suppressed/shutdown?

**Vettester** · 08-05-2012, 09:16 PM

Exogenous test causes suppression of the HPTA, there's no way around it. The HPTA responds with LH when it is signaled that testosterone levels are low. When you administer exogenous bio identical testosterone , the HPTA believes the body is satisfied with testosterone, therefore it has no need to signal LH to the testicles to produce more. After time, the HPTA loses its ability function, even when testosterone levels go back down.

Unless the condition is primary, this is why men go on TRT to begin with. If your testicles function properly, and your HPTA is healthy (also excluding tumors in the pituitary region), then everything should be in working order, no need for exogenous test. This is also why AAS cycles require a PCT. It's basically to wake up the HPTA to function again. Go long enough without a PCT and the HPTA won't wake up.

**edmundo22** · 08-07-2012, 12:37 PM

Vette what do you make of my situation?, it wasn't until I converted my bassline TT to ng/dl I released it was pretty high to begin with 600 ng/dl, 21 nmol didn't seem like much at the time and I had thought I had doubled my TT while on TRT when really it was just an increase of 240.

Iv asked on two other forums about my e2 and they both said it was too low, as Iv stated before zero libido for 12 years and depression / bad moods for even longer. all started when I was 15 perhaps when hormones start to take effect?

I had to stop TRT due to allergy for over two months and slowly slipped into a depression that came close to manic, went out got a box of testim thinking I would still have the allergy but would stop the depression, four days on Testim no allergy feeling a lot better could be placebo though.

Iv been applying to my fatty stomach area to increase e2. So l know low Test definitely isn't a problem for me but feeling a lot better on TRT so maybe its been the e2 increase alongside the test increase that's accounting for these benefits?