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  1. #1
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Question on a slight rash that developed

    Thank you, all you informed GURU's passing on you knowledge and experiance.

    I've been working with my doctor and my Nephew who is an experianced strong man(benches 465 lbs). he is very health concious and referred me to this sight for HRT . I've been trying to dial in doses for 4 months, I almost have it down but have had a minor complication when I upped the dose.

    before T, I was 130 (total). with the doctors prescrption of 100mg/1cc every two weeks (twice a month). 4 days after injection , level was 553 (total) and 130 (total) after 14 days. Then he bumped it up too 100mg/1cc every week. my thought was go too 2cc of 100mg or 1cc of 200mg (UG) per week. that should bring me to 1100 (total) after injection and 550 at half life. So my idea was 2cc of prescribed one week and 1cc of UG the next, alternating between the two, but doing 1 injection every week. My hemoglobin looks good but my HDL is low, I can work on that, that comes with diabetes. I'm using UG from a reliable source (nephew) and it is worth every penny. I'm using Pharmicutical and UG because I'm concerned my doctor will get suspicious if I go through the prescription faster than prescribed.

    I'm doing two things one I really do feel better at a higher dose than the doctor prescribes. If I stay with what the doctor prescribed I still get symptoms, night sweats, moodiness, fatigue, AND yes I am going to take advantage of the strength benefits, so I want to push the limit somewhat. I'm REALLY PISSED I didn't research this in 02 when I started feeling messed up or atleast in my upper 30's.

    After starting the regiment of T cyponate 1 injection of 1.5 cc (100mg) of Pharm one week, and 1 cc of (200MG) of UG the next week, I started noticing nickel size rashes on my legs (6 0r 7). They don't itch but I might be getting an allergic reaction.

    Has anyone heard or experianced this?

  2. #2
    bass's Avatar
    bass is offline HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
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    not me, even when i was blasting i didn't experience any rash, maybe little acne. your protocol don't make sense, based on my calculations you will be injecting 400 mgs per week, thats a mid to high dose blast! your 100 mgs per week could be a good dose if you split that into two, basically 50 mgs twice a week, you'll have more stable levels. i was doing 105 mgs per week and my total was above 800 and free was way above normal, but i am also ding hCG which raises test as well. what is your complete protocol from your doc, any AI's, hCG?

  3. #3
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    First, welcome to the community tdh69.

    Secondly, and please don't take this as an insult, but your grammar makes reading and understanding your post difficult.

    If you have the right Doc he will see immediately that you are off of his prescribed protocol by the results of your blood work and will immediately suspect what you are doing.

    The outcome of that is he may resign you as as patient on the spot putting you in a bad place or dramatically restrict your use of Pharma grade medications.

    There could be any number of reasons for why you are getting a rash after each injection. I have heard of some men getting a bad reaction after injectiongs so you could be one of them...anything is possible...but considering you are using UG may be one of the more obvious reasons.
    Last edited by steroid.com 1; 05-29-2012 at 01:23 PM.

  4. #4
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Thumbs up Bass thanks for responding

    Its not 400mg a week. I started by using UG 200mg/ 1cc every two weeks because I wasn't sure if the doc was going to prescribe. Now I'm basically at 200mg one week and 150mg the next or you could look at it and round off too 200MG a week. When I was doing 100MG a week my totals peaked at 565. No AI's or HCG . I did all the research and since I went on a 5 year decline and felt like I wasn't going to make it to 50 I took the advice of my nephew and went for it. It's been amazing and I feel incredable. Its still going to be a long road before I fully recover. I always worked hard and lifted to stay in shape for work. I weakened to the point of an old dog going off quietly to die. I literaly felt that way.

    I just wanted to check on the HIVE/rash thing since it just started and T injections are the only thing I changed.

    It could be any number of things.

    "Gdevine", thanks for the welcome. I've been reallly interested in this sight since referred. You guys are really great. many veterines don't tolerate begginers or their questions.

    My doc and I have completed pre-post-and half life blood work, we have a good history of blood tests and he stated that we will not be testing for levels except once a year now. We will continue to test liver/A1C/cholesteral etc... I know its a risk, he could cut me off, but we have a good doctor patient relationship and I would agee to cut down my dose to prescribed levels if he suspects. Of course I also need to take care of number one and since the doctors held back pertanent info for five years and just watched me decline, I would also be willing to use their blood tests and administer my own medicine.

    I'm going to check with my DOC but wanted a quicker answer just for now, about the HIVEs. There not bad and don't itch. So its nice to know its not common. Its difficult to pin-point this stuff, it could be the Cyponate, which means I need to switch to enthenate or it could be the cotton seed oil its mixed with or even something else all together.

    Thanks for the info.

  5. #5
    APIs's Avatar
    APIs is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    For what it's worth, I get Eczema on the hands & upper torso which has increased in frequency since starting TRT 2+ years ago. I just use some Betamethasone cream to clear it up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APIs View Post
    For what it's worth, I get Eczema on the hands & upper torso which has increased in frequency since starting TRT 2+ years ago. I just use some Betamethasone cream to clear it up.
    Me as well, but nothing bad...

  7. #7
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Tdh why don't you post up your most current BW with ranges and let us take a look. There may be some things your doc is missing that we can key in on to really help you out. The whole idea is to do better with less. Take a look at this current article from Life Extension:

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/...ey=june%202012

    Adding the UGL is not going to help you dial in at all quite honestly. You need to get on a proper protocol, including HCG and possibly an AI if needed, then consider your blasts on occasion. Your body needs to find homeostasis. Post up the BW. Let us look.

    Welcome!

  8. #8
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    API and GDevine. Ya know that might be the issue. I have Eczema already on my hands and the leg spots are similar. They are not bad and don't itch. I just want to rule out the T because it has helped so much. I was thinking the cotton seed oil its mixed with rather than the T. I read one thread where a guy in a similar situation had to switch to Enthenate to clear them up, but his were worse and I haven't read anything else on this so I'm assuming its not common and it probably isn't the T at all.

    Kelkel,

    Thats a great Idea. I'll get them and post. I really apreciate the assistance. I just took one this month. I'll look tonight and get them in tomorrow.

    A good protocal would be great with some regimented blasts. Thats what I'm looking for. I want to take care of the low T plus take advantage of the added effects with out being unsafe. I feel like I missed out when I was lifting hard in my thirties. I know I won't be a hulk or break dead lift records but I still have a short time to enjoy a peak performance.

  9. #9
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Your in your prime. Just keep training hard. Good things will happen.

  10. #10
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    zaggahamma is offline Mr. Moderation
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    glad you move your post

    welcome to the forum

  11. #11
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    This is my first BW, before starting injections. I hope these uploaded right.




    this is my first BW 12 days after first injection of UGL, 200MG/1 cc (stopped taking when I recieved presription) (T CYP)




    This is part of the BW after first injection, after seeing endochronologist

    This is my last BW 4 days after injecting PHARM, 100MG/1 cc (T CYP)


    I will re-post BW soon.


    Attachment 123440

    Attachment 123442

    Attachment 123443
    Last edited by tdh96; 05-30-2012 at 09:12 PM.

  12. #12
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    Just my opinion, but since you are talking about using UG products that you get from your nephew, I would remove the part of the document that shows your name.

    Like the other guys, I would suggest workign wtih only the pharma grade Test. You'll be much more consistent. Also, splitting your doses up over the week would be a good idea. I would strongly suggest going to 50mg every three and a half days, along with 250 i.u. hcg the day before each test injection. It will keep your own production up and keep your balls at normal size. Go with that for a month, test, and adjust. At the 200mg there is a strong likely hook you are going to convert quite a bit to E2, and if you think you felt bad before, wait till your feet swell up, your blood pressure is through the roof, you're bitchier than your old lady, and start growing moobs.

  13. #13
    Ratt's Avatar
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    tdh96,

    If I were you, I would take only the dr prescribed amount for a 2 or 3 week period and then go and see your doctor. Tell him you feel like shiat and would like to get your levels checked again. When the results come back low you can approach him about upping your dosage. You mentioned you have a good rapport with your dr, so if you take the right steps you can get the treatment you deserve and are entitled to.

  14. #14
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Ratt and Billy_boy

    Thank you thats good sound advice. I will stay with the prescribed. I have been with the prescribed doses for 3 months, I have not discussed upping the dose with my doc. I didn'y want to push it, it was a major push just to get him to test and prescribe even after discussing my symptoms for 5 years.

    I didn't think about the name, probably should have left that out. I'm not sure if I can delete now. I'll have to talk to ADMIN.

    At what level does T convert to E2? i read here that an IA can prevent that, but I didn't think I was up in that range. I'm reading that begginers are taking 500MG per week and pros are taking 1750MG per week.

    I guess I thought 200MG was still in the lower range not to have to worry about that. Thanks again for the advice.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate this sight. i've read so much excellent information.

  15. #15
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    pretty much at any dose youll covert. i was on 105 mgs ew plus 900 iu hCG ew with no AI and my e2 was 90 on scale 7-42!

  16. #16
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    Yeah, everyone converts to E2 differently. The higher the body fat the worse it is for sure, but I am sure there are a thousand other factors. I would suggest a month at your prescribed dosage and get a good complete hormone panel, as suggested in the stickies, post the results up and then take an educated opionion back to your doctor. If he cant deal with that, there are a lot of good doctors out there that can. Personally I couldnt get what I wanted here in Utah and ended up going to Michigan to Dr. Crisler. He also does advice only consults through your Dr, again if your Dr is open to that sort of thing. I know mine was to "proud" to consider taking advice, so I went direct to Dr. Crisler. But a quick way to find out where your Dr. stands is to ask for hcg to be added to your protocol immediately. If he resists that, give hime the papers off the "all things male dot com" website. There is an excellent paper on hcg and how it works in TRT. If he still resists, find another Dr. Finding a good Dr. is also covered in the stickies here.

  17. #17
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    I was considering getting a different doctor for TRT. My doctor never tested for E2. I will check the stickies (I'm assuming the stickies are the first tag we see in a thread?). I was concerned about the clinics being expensive. My doctor is primarily for my Diabetes,which the on-set would have been prolonged for several years had I known about low T. I would really like to find a doctor who is an advocate and understands this from research rather than going by the generally low panel levels being put out. I've been reading about HCG .

    Is this to be used in-lue of T CYP or with T cyp?

    It sounds more like a PCT. My situation is a little different than most of you experianced gents, I'm always going to have to administer T CYP because my body just doesn't produce enough. I would however like to do cycles on a regimented basis when I get my diet and work out dialed in. I do not plan on going above a begginer cycle, so I'm thinking the PCT will be slightly varied since I will not have a "last injection" I will just be lowering the dose.

    I've read several of your posts and responses from other threads as well as some of the other guys, I can see the gurus. I'm builing my profile from all of your suggestions, It is MUCH apreciated!!!

  18. #18
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    One question. When is an IA recommended? I noticed on a begginer cycle at 500MG a week an IA isn't even discussed. I'm only at 1.5 CC of 100MG a week. Later when I'm ready I would consider 250MG to 400MG a week for 12 weeks.

    Bear says only BW will determin estrogen levels, which of course is the soundest reasoning. It poses risks as the high T levels could flag a doctors.

    Its not just about lowering E its about balancing because some is neccessary for health.

    How long between cycles do most begginers go? 3 months on / 3 months off?

  19. #19
    Ratt's Avatar
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    tdh96 said "My situation is a little different than most of you experianced gents, I'm always going to have to administer T CYP because my body just doesn't produce enough."

    This is a TRT/HRT forum and as such every guy in this forum is here because their bodies do not produce enough testosterone. TRT is for life.

    "I would however like to do cycles on a regimented basis when I get my diet and work out dialed in. I do not plan on going above a begginer cycle, so I'm thinking the PCT will be slightly varied since I will not have a "last injection" I will just be lowering the dose."

    There is no need to do a PCT if you are on TRT. PCT is used to kick start your natural production. Your body doesn't produce enough T, that is why you have to inject yourself to get back in range. After you are done your blast/cycle you simply go back to your standard dose. That is why it is very important to know what dose will get your levels in the normal range.
    Last edited by Ratt; 05-31-2012 at 12:01 PM.

  20. #20
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    e2 signs are generally pretty easy to spot. Water retention, look at your legs when you take your socks off, if you can see where the socks were, you're holding water. Quick weight gain is often water. Sensitivity/itching around your nipples. Gyno of course. High blood pressure.That are the ones that quickly come to mind. If I were you, I would hold off on blasting till you get yourself lined out and feeling right at a normal trt dosage. Likely your e2 and shbg are out of whack as well. You really need to be stable at a dosage for a month, get bloodwork, evaluate it/post it here for help, and go from there. If you blast before you're leveled out you are just dragging the process to getting to feel normal again out. Trust me, that is said from experience.

    If you're hell bent on cycling before hand, at 500mg/week you're very likely going to need an AI. I took .5mg anastrozole EOD @ 400mg/test-cyp a week and that kept me somewhat stable. I did stop early though as I was feelign like shit otherwise.

    Unless you're secondary the hcg is not going to get your T levels up to optimal levels. That is best determined before you start on TRT with your LH levels. But since you are already on TRT it woudl be awhile before you could get valid data as you would need to come of TRT and do PCT and wait for your natural levels to restore themselves. At this point, I would recommend the hcg along with your trt, if you do two test shots a week, take the hcg the day before your test, if once a week take the shots the two days prior to your test injection.

  21. #21
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Ratt,

    Thanks for clarifying. Maybe I misunderstood what PCT is. All the acronyms, are crazy, but neccessary. Plus I guess I'm in the right forum then. Thanks again. Clarity is why I'm here.

    Billy_Boy,

    Please don't missunderstand me. I'm just doing research right now. I feel I'll be ready in about six months. The reason I started considering blasting is because I've been on TRT since 01/01/12 and my BW is dramatically getting better as far as my BP, A1C, Cholesteral, hemoglobin, and my weight. I feel sooo good, yes I was anxious and thought I was ready but after talking with you knowledgable guys I know I have more work to do. I'm still making dramatic gains with just what I'm using, prescribed by doctor. After this discussion, I realised my DOC never tested for estrogin. So I'm gonna do another BW. I posted them yesterday but had to remove them because of my name being present, I will correct and re-post. The cycle you posted above sounds perfect when I'm ready, I just want to get all info and peak naturally before starting (with prescribed dosage). My main concern is the balance of E2. So far I've tolerated extremelly well, no sides, water retention, cholesterol issues, acne or basically anything. I took it up to 200MG once a week for a month and felt great but when I read some stickies I realised I wasn't ready and took it back down, with no issues. I have to read more about HCG just to understand what it is and anastrozole. I have followed other post for the past 5 months from both you and RATT so, I will be inquiring and I will get that BW, and will follow your suggestions. Thats why I'm here not to just have someone tell me what I want to hear.

  22. #22
    kelkel's Avatar
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    TDH you've only been on TRT for 5 months now. Not even close to enough time to get dialed in and stable and learn exactly what your body needs. You commented on how much better your feeling, well, give it time. Make as much progress as you can on TRT before you blast. Get your diet in order, lose as much body fat as you can, train hard. There is no need to rush this. More is not better here. Better is better.

    You spoke of no E2 issues. Well, not all E2 issues are external and immediately visible. There are just as many internal issues that can arise. Read that link I gave you in the earlier post again and read the stickies here. Pace yourself brother!

  23. #23
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    Check out the paper that is on Dr. John Crisler's websit for the HCG information. Its a few pages that will bring clarity to its usage in a normal protocol. its all things male dot com with no spaces between anything in that. Good website for information from a very well respected Dr. in the field. I started with him in January and will never go elsewhere.

  24. #24
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    SORRY IT TOOK SO LONG TO GET BACK. I WAS COMPILING all MY BW. IT TURNS OUT THE DOCTOR IS NOT TESTNG FOR EVERYTHING I NEED. I hope you guys are still around. Below is my current BW. All the other tests were just total T. He did check for many other things but I'm not sure they are related. He did check all the safety factors though, hemoglobin, cholesteral, prostate etc... all checked out fine. I can post the other list if needed.

    INFO; my allergic reaction cleared up, I'm not sure what it was but its gone.

    TEST NAME RESULT

    SEX HORM.BIND GLOB 20

    TESTOSERONE TOTAL 493

    Testosterone , BIOAVAIL 328.2

    TESTOSERONE, FREE 115.2


    Billy_boy I did check out the article it was excellent. I'd like to fly out and see this doc but just a little to much money right now. I'm looking for a DOC in this area, SD, that will test for everything I need and give me a proper dosage. My DOC is great but is more concerned about my Diabetes, he doesn't believe my theory that my Diabetes was a symptom of LOW T. I had low T for way to long so there is no turning back but its way better now that I have started T. I know I would have contracted it anyway, as it runs in my family but I belive it would have been much later.

  25. #25
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdh96 View Post
    SORRY IT TOOK SO LONG TO GET BACK. I WAS COMPILING all MY BW. IT TURNS OUT THE DOCTOR IS NOT TESTNG FOR EVERYTHING I NEED. I hope you guys are still around. Below is my current BW. All the other tests were just total T. He did check for many other things but I'm not sure they are related. He did check all the safety factors though, hemoglobin, cholesteral, prostate etc... all checked out fine. I can post the other list if needed.

    INFO; my allergic reaction cleared up, I'm not sure what it was but its gone.

    TEST NAME RESULT

    SEX HORM.BIND GLOB 20

    TESTOSERONE TOTAL 493

    Testosterone , BIOAVAIL 328.2

    TESTOSERONE, FREE 115.2


    Billy_boy I did check out the article it was excellent. I'd like to fly out and see this doc but just a little to much money right now. I'm looking for a DOC in this area, SD, that will test for everything I need and give me a proper dosage. My DOC is great but is more concerned about my Diabetes, he doesn't believe my theory that my Diabetes was a symptom of LOW T. I had low T for way to long so there is no turning back but its way better now that I have started T. I know I would have contracted it anyway, as it runs in my family but I belive it would have been much later.
    If you can, post the ranges from your bloodwork. You really need a more complete steroid panel though, if you have to go to private md labs dot com for the testing. Diet and exercise will likely help your diabetes, and of course, a healthy hormone panel will not hurt either. After getting my 62 yo father off his ass and walking and got his diet in line he is off all diabetes medicine. Odd how getting him a little less insulin resistant helped his issues dramatically. He looks ten years younger now too. Which is bad, as I look 20 years older than I am, so we look like brothers.

  26. #26
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Now that I have the T, my energy level is way up, my metabolism is better and I'm off all Diabetic medicine except one. I was working really hard to lower my A1C but it kept going up, the doctor just piled on more medicine. It wasn't until I forced him to test me for low T and give me a prescription, did I start seeing results. In three months it went from 9.98 to 7.5, now 6.5. Diet/Excersize wasn't working alone. I have had a hormone panel done. I'm assuming your talking about Thyroid? thyroid cam out great. I do need a better panel though. My ranges if I'm understanding correctly are below. Good to hear about your dad. If he's like me he probably wishes he started sooner. Although I tried the diet and excersize with little results until T. If you look older then that just means, many good times in your history.HaHa.

    what does a GOOD panel test look like, I mean what should be tested? I have other info I can post, I'm just not sure its relevant.

    November 2011 before HRT; total 159

    two weeks after first shot January 2012; total 130/ 1cc (100mg) T CYP

    12 days after shot in may: total 493/ 1cc (200MG) T CYP

    4 days after shot; total 556/ 1cc (100MG) TCYP

    Now I'm on 1cc/100MG T CYP every 7 days.

  27. #27
    Ratt's Avatar
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    Bill_Boy was asking about the ranges listed on your test results for
    TEST NAME RESULT

    SEX HORM.BIND GLOB 20 Range?

    TESTOSERONE TOTAL 493 Range?

    Testosterone , BIOAVAIL 328.2 Range?

    TESTOSERONE, FREE 115.2 Range?

  28. #28
    Bill_boy2005 is offline Associate Member
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    Post all your labs. Gives a better view of your health.

  29. #29
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Below are the results with the ranges. These are just average ranges they use from statistics. I think its generic across the board. I've read several articles that say there to low and out dated. I'll try and find them and post them in a seperate post for informational purposes.

    I meant to bring my complete BW in to post but left them at home. It will take some time to get them typed out neatly. I'll try and do that this weekend. For some reason I can't edit them after I scan.

    TEST NAME RESULT

    SEX HORM.BIND GLOB 20
    Reference range: 11 to 80
    Unit: nmol/L

    TESTOSERONE TOTAL 493
    Reference range: 300 to 890
    Unit: NG/DL


    Testosterone , BIOAVAIL 328.2
    Reference range: 160 to 680
    Unit: ng/DL


    TESTOSERONE, FREE 115.2
    Reference range: 47.0 to 244.0
    Unit: PG/ML

  30. #30
    tdh96 is offline New Member
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    Here is the first page of my BW.


    BW1.pdf

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