Post-Finasteride - Symptoms of hypogonadism-Help !(Hormon status included

[holark]

Hello to all. First of all sorry for my bad english, but english is not my mother language therefore I am trying my best.

I am 19 years old, 176 cm , 70 kg.

I've been taking the drug finasteride for 2 years against hairloss and took my last pill in November 2012. Unfortunately I developed something called "Post-Finasteride-Syndrom" - nobody really knows what it is, but you develop symptoms like hypogonadism ( I've never used ROIDS) :

NO Errections , no sex possible ( no spontaneous,morning,nocturnal, only after physical stimulation he gets kind of hard.even not after taking 10mg Cialis)
low - no libido
testicle shrinkage
big decrease in ejaculate.
ejaculate is not"jumping" out, just fleeding out slowly ( sorry for details)
decreased body hair

I've been to two different doctors, the first one just made a hormon test, and all my values are in the big, wide normal range, so he says it is a psychological thing, then I've been to the second one, I just brought my whole stuff, he watched at it, just realized that he could not make any easy money with me and said : I've no experience in that case, just go to a hospital. ( I mean wtf ?.)


Soo, I just added my current hormon values, and here are those from 2 years ago,when everything was fine

FT3 2.2-5.0 3.34pg/ml
FT4 0.71-1.41 1.14ng/ml
TSH basal 0.4-4.0 1.88mIU/l

Cortisol i.S. 5-25 12.20 ug/dl
SHBG 13-71 22.10nmol/l
Prolaktin 2.5-17 6.72ng/ml

LH 0.8-7.6 2.91mIU/ml
FSH 0.7-11.1 1.78mIU/ml
Oestradiol 20-56 41.20
Testosteron 262-1593 509ng/dl
DHT 250-990 791pg/ml
Androstendion 0.6-3.1 2.11ng/ml
DHEA-S 80-560 306ug/dl
17-OH-Progesteron 0.61-3.34 1.38ng/ml

Hormon values from Oct 2010 before Fin treatment.)

In comparison to those now :

As you can see, my Oestrogen decreased by 50 %.
my Testo decreased by 10 %
my Androstendion decreased by 30 %
my DHEA'S decreased by 34 %
my SHBG increased by 21 %
my 17-OH-Progesteron increased by 28 %
my FAI ( Free Androgen Index) decreased from 85 to 63. which means 26 %.

I think this might be kind of a change - what medication would you recommend me ( I will consult another doctor anyways, but that I have to give him some "advice" what he could do.

My first thought was a HTPA re-start with hcg ,tamox,dhea supplementation and clomiphen, which could look like this :

HcG:
first 16 days - 2.500iu eod
Clomid:
50mg ed for 45 days
Tamoxifen :
20mg ed for 45 days.
DHEA supp:
no idea

What do you think ?

An other way could be a drug which sensitizes the androgen especially the DHT receptor, is there anything out which could do this ?

I really hope for an answer

Best & kind regards

[LowT Mike]

I DO NOT RECOMMEND FINESTRIDE OR DIRESTRIDE. These compounds wreak havoc on your endocrine system. I know HRT docs that Rx like candy to block DHT for there TRT guys. Horrible advice. There is a Yahoo forum of men who have "Post-Finasteride-Syndrome" and now have such horrible endocrine pathology that even a few of them have commited suicide. DO NOT USE THESE PRODUCTS. Im sorry you are in this situation. Some men recover and some do not. To protect the prostate from high DHT use a Prostate restore product. Saw palmetto, beta systerol, pegyum bark, needle root, ect. These do work if you go with a good brand that is USP or GMP approved.

Holark---Talk to a compounding pharamacy. They can compound a product that you can apply transdermally to the scalp like shampoo. I want to say it responds to alpha channel receptors and contains an active ingrident that is in direstride without the endo complications.

When it comes to hair loss. Abraham Mortengaler--Studies support DHT conversion while on treatment does not aggravate male pattern baldness (MPB). When a man becomes andropausal all the DHT he needs to aggravate MPB is present. Having more DHT once on treatment won’t change or advance this. Studies show that there is not an increase in MPB in placebo vs. testosterone therapy groups.

However if a teenager who is not andropausal and has the MPB gene does a cycle of steriods it is very possible for his MPB to kick in sooner than later. He is not andropausal yet.

[kelkel]

What Doc said and I'll add that you don't need a re-start. Get off your meds and give your body time to fine homeostasis. A sensitive estrogen assay would be a plus as well as it's specific to males. That in mind, high estrogen in and of itself may very well be the root cause for your erection / libido issues. After a proper E2 test carefully reducing it down to an acceptable level just might be the trick.

Another thought may be to add in micronized pregnenolone, DHEA and Vit D3 as supplements.

[holark]

Thanks for your answers - but what you don't get are these two points :
1.) I am not on medication - I stopped taking finasteride half a year ago.
2.) my estrogen is not high, just look at my test results...
In comparison to my pre-fin status almost all androgens did decrease...
I can't even get an errection with Cial.is and I am 19 - that's horrible.

I don't care about my ****in hair, I just want my physical body functions back...

[holark]

Sorry for doppelpost, but I have something to mention. What I realized now is, that you think the hormon status in the grey box are my current ones - no, that are the ones I'd like to have - I had them before Finasterid. My current ones are in the attachement...

The percentages I wrote down are comparison between old ones and new ones, the new ones are in the attachement. Please realize this too.

I really hope you can give me good advice.

[JohnGalt]

I am sorry to hear about the issues you are having here. I did a very quick search about what post-finasteride-syndrome to see how common and damaging it can be, and wow was I shocked. The Doc has recommended a few supplements that he has found that can be helpful as well as Kel, if I were you I would research a bit on what they suggest against your problem. I also found that there is a propeciahelp website dedicated to other men and women that are going through the same issues as you, I briefly looked through their forum and found there are stories there from people who have recovered, or are in the process of recovering. If it were me I would register there and look for some support from them as they can fully empathize and understand every aspect of what you are experiencing. If you find some resolution keep us informed here so this site might be able to help others in the future in the same boat as you.

I wish you the best in your recovery.

[holark]

Thank you for answering.

Yes, I just read a lot of post in the propeciahelp forum, and the common meaning is, that there is no cure, it is just an system of try an error. Most of people try a system out of heavy lift weighting, sprinting and hormon therapy, unfortunately they have no clue of hormones, therefore I registered here because I hope you can give me better advice.

In addition to that, I am one of the few ones who has pre-Finasterid blood tests...

I hope you can help me, to get my hormon values back to my Pre-Fin values therefore I have to do following :



to increase T about 10 %
to raise E2 about 100 % ( don't know if this is very helpful).
raise my DHEA's about 50 %
raise my Androstendion about 40 %
lower my SHBG about 20 %
lower my 17-OH-Progesteron about 30 %


In additon to get the hormon values fixed I'll do a mix out of following supplements :
L-Carnitine
Yohimbine HCL
Noopept & Choline
Zink ( high dosage about 75-100mg)
Alpha-Lipon-Acid.
Cialis 2,5mg eod.

Hope you can help me with my hormon values !

[AnabolicDoc]

I can't find your current hormone values, maybe bc I'm using the phone app. Post Finasteride Syndrome is very common. If it's the cause of your current problems you may have fertility issues as well. Go see a fertility doc as they seem to deal with this - finasteride induced infertility - the most.

In the meantime for your hair, you can use topical spironolactone twice per day on your scalp - it blocks dht receptors locally. Results are improved further with topical minoxidil, which will help prevent further hair loss and maybe even sone growth.

You can also look into nizoral (ketoconazole shampoo) and nioxin, which I've only recently learned of but have heard good things.

[holark]

Thank you for your answer...

I am currently taking topical RU, which is the most potent topical against male patern baldness- but thank you.

I think it is pretty difficult to get an infertility doc in Germany, we just have urologs, who don't trust me at all, their answer is always : I prescribed Fin to a lot of people, and nobody of them had such a thing.

[AnabolicDoc]

I was under the impression that Germany had one of the best qualities of care in the world.

Print out some info from PubMed and bring it with you. I studied medicine in Prague one summer and I was told that most doctors in Germany and countries eastward speak English. Is that true?

[AnabolicDoc]

Thank you for your answer...

I am currently taking topical RU, which is the most potent topical against male patern baldness- but thank you.

I think it is pretty difficult to get an infertility doc in Germany, we just have urologs, who don't trust me at all, their answer is always : I prescribed Fin to a lot of people, and nobody of them had such a thing.

Also I thought that Aventis stopped development of RU. Do you get it as a research chemical or have it specially made for you? I've also read mixed info about its potential for systemic effects, as it is an anti-androgen.

[holark]

Yeah, development was stopped, because of it's instability in normal vehicles. In 2011 a new vehicle was developed, which reduces systemic sides, and improves stability, called Krahm & Bohner Solution ( K&B).

My ru is from a chinese lab, but all blood test have been done before the use of RU.

I'd really like you to take a look at my current hormone status in comparison to my pre-fins and what you think about my plan to restart HTPA with hcg ,tamox and clomifen?

I think we do but urologs are doing this job either( testing fertility,sperm count etc). Yeah, they have to speak English & Latin.( nevertheless Latin doesnt make any sense)

[AnabolicDoc]

All fertility docs for makes are urologists than then subspecialize.

I can't seem to find your second set of labs. But either way I think kel is on point that you may just need to wait a little and give it some time. With that said, I don't know much about post fin syndrome, just that it's more common than most think and often the symptoms, similar to hypogonadism, develop during treatment. Show me where I can find your second set of labs and when I get a chance I'll look into this more.

[holark]

I've just waited for 6 months, and there was NO change in anything...

I'd rather try this DHEA and Pregnolone supplementation, do I need prescribtion for those ?


I just made an attachement but I will write down my current blood test now :

Current blood test ( April 2013)
Name Reference Me
LH 1,5-5 2,48
FSH 0,2-18,5 1,39
E2 0-56 24,1
SHBG 13-71 26,8
Testo 0-9 4,87
Androstendion 0,7-3,6 1,51
DHEAS 950-6400 2020
17-a-OHPG 0,2-4 1,9
Cortisol 25-250 159

FT3 2.2-5.0 3.34pg/ml
FT4 0.71-1.41 1.14ng/ml
TSH basal 0.4-4.0 1.88mIU/l

Cortisol i.S. 5-25 12.20 ug/dl
SHBG 13-71 22.10nmol/l
Prolaktin 2.5-17 6.72ng/ml

LH 0.8-7.6 2.91mIU/ml
FSH 0.7-11.1 1.78mIU/ml
Oestradiol 20-56 41.20
Testosteron 262-1593 509ng/dl
DHT 250-990 791pg/ml
Androstendion 0.6-3.1 2.11ng/ml
DHEA-S 80-560 306ug/dl
17-OH-Progesteron 0.61-3.34 1.38ng/ml

Hormon values from Oct 2010 before Fin treatment.)

[holark]

i really look for help considering my hormon/blood tests.

[junk2222yard]

To protect the prostate from high DHT use a Prostate restore product. Saw palmetto, beta systerol, pegyum bark, needle root, ect. These do work if you go with a good brand that is USP or GMP approved.

I have read that Saw Palmetto has also been implicated in (so-called) Post Finasteride Syndrome.

[holark]

Ok, I see there is no need to restart the HTPA.

What do you think about oral DHT ( Mesterolon). Do you think it would be worth trying it ?

Any other ideas ?

[iron.triangle]

.................................................. ......

[KINGKONG]

Wow, Iam glad this old thread got bumped..just started taking propecia recently..scary..

[Obs]

Wow, Iam glad this old thread got bumped..just started taking propecia recently..scary..

I was thinking about taking it for my hair...
Never heard of pfs.

[KINGKONG]

I was thinking about taking it for my hair...
Never heard of pfs.

In theory it seems like a great companion to testosterone limiting dht related sides but every substance we use to combat another substance always has another side ..keeping it as simple as possible seems to be the best solution ..in the future it's just gonna be low dose test and a AI for me..shit is starting to take its toll on my body man..turn 38 in a week and wanna be a healthy keep doing this forever..

[KINGKONG]

thats my thoughts on this,
Right now
Might change tommorow

[Obs]

thats my thoughts on this,
Right now
Might change tommorow

Fuckin' A...
I will be standing by with a 5 gallon bucket of tren and an ekg on wheels.

[KINGKONG]

Fuckin' A...
I will be standing by with a 5 gallon bucket of tren and an ekg on wheels.

Lol, I had that same attitude once..still have those thoughts sometimes but Iam leaning more toward maintainable mass and health and longevity..for the most part I still feel like a kid most days..a kid that wakes up a few times a night to piss..

[Obs]

Lol, I had that same attitude once..still have those thoughts sometimes but Iam leaning more toward maintainable mass and health and longevity..for the most part I still feel like a kid most days..a kid that wakes up a few times a night to piss..

I understand. I am 31 going on 12.
This adulting shit is really confusing and bothersome.

[iron.triangle]

.................................................

[Obs]

I wish Holark would reply to how his situation is holding up. I'm in the same boat............

Its not gonna happen man. The dude posted 28 times in his career here. This thread is four years old.