So I found out I have low T today.

[JackedJesse]

^^^this.

What?

[powerlifterty16]

What?

he was agreeing with u

[Metalject]

agree with kel...the original poster didnt even post his testosterone value..what is LOW?
sound slike he jsut did a bad pct...try a restart and just lift naturally man..many people lift naturally youll be fine

Not necessarily. Too many people rely to heavily on PCT. It doesn't matter how well planned your PCT is, there are no guarantees.

[Metalject]

so basically you dont want to put the work in and just want the results that people on the street can admire thinking you worked hard for....and you want to shut your body down, raise your blood pressure, risk a stroke, balding, acne just to be lazy and pretend you are accomplishing something?

i hope your doc doesnt prescribe you trt..no offense but you are setting the movement back.
what was your t value?

This is a common misconception many non-steroid users have. Using steroids won't produce awesome results without work. Most steroid users work just as hard if not harder than non-steroid users, at least those who are in decent shape. After all, that's the entire point of steroid use , to take what you're already doing and to do it better. To get more out of your work, not to reduce the need for work. I get so sick and tired of the uneducated morons who think steroid users are lazy and never put in any time. Steroid users are generally the most dedicated to diet and training out of anyone. I'm excluding the gym douche bag. AKA half of New Jersey.

[Low Testosterone]

Not necessarily. Too many people rely to heavily on PCT. It doesn't matter how well planned your PCT is, there are no guarantees.

Agree with this big time!

I also tend to agree with what you said about steroid users, at least from the majority I've seen.

[JackedJesse]

This is a common misconception many non-steroid users have. Using steroids won't produce awesome results without work. Most steroid users work just as hard if not harder than non-steroid users, at least those who are in decent shape. After all, that's the entire point of steroid use, to take what you're already doing and to do it better. To get more out of your work, not to reduce the need for work. I get so sick and tired of the uneducated morons who think steroid users are lazy and never put in any time. Steroid users are generally the most dedicated to diet and training out of anyone. I'm excluding the gym douche bag. AKA half of New Jersey.

Agreed

[kelkel]

This is a common misconception many non-steroid users have. Using steroids won't produce awesome results without work. Most steroid users work just as hard if not harder than non-steroid users, at least those who are in decent shape. After all, that's the entire point of steroid use , to take what you're already doing and to do it better. To get more out of your work, not to reduce the need for work. I get so sick and tired of the uneducated morons who think steroid users are lazy and never put in any time. Steroid users are generally the most dedicated to diet and training out of anyone. I'm excluding the gym douche bag. AKA half of New Jersey.

Thankfully I moved out of Jersey 10 years ago. Dodged a bullet there!

[powerlifterty16]

seems it was a jab at me lol

[Metalject]

Thankfully I moved out of Jersey 10 years ago. Dodged a bullet there!

And your life has only improved.

seems it was a jab at me lol

Didn't know you lived there. Just don't be part of the bad half.

[EverettCD]

What half is bad

[JackedJesse]

KelKel, so besides muscle loss and gyno, what else can occur if I go untreated with a proper pct? I understand your natural levels supposedly do go back to normal, maybe or definitely? Since I am experiencing puffy sensitive nipples and low sex drive, what do you think would happen if I went untreated and how quickly? By the way, I made an appointment with an endo on Tuesday since my internist has no idea what a serm or AI is.

[powerlifterty16]

KelKel, so besides muscle loss and gyno, what else can occur if I go untreated with a proper pct? I understand your natural levels supposedly do go back to normal, maybe or definitely? Since I am experiencing puffy sensitive nipples and low sex drive, what do you think would happen if I went untreated and how quickly? By the way, I made an appointment with an endo on Tuesday since my internist has no idea what a serm or AI is.

google low testosterone man, within seconds you will find many pages of information

[JackedJesse]

So here's an update for my situation.

I just saw my endo, and it seems like Im on the right track. He's sending me for more bloodwork because he agreed at my age TRT is a last resort. He's checking estradiol, FSH, LH, Prolactin, total test and free test. He gave me a prescription for tamoxifen 10mgs twice a day in the meantime. By the way my total test was 271. I think Im in good hands. Any comments? Thanks again. -Jesse

[JackedJesse]

Also, he only recommended Hcg if I want to have a child anytime soon. I don't atleast for another 2 years so. So is that the norm? Only getting on it for sperm count?

[FRDave]

Also, he only recommended Hcg if I want to have a child anytime soon. I don't atleast for another 2 years so. So is that the norm? Only getting on it for sperm count?

Many more benefits, read the stickies and do a search on the forums. Did he mention how your testes will shrink and your going to have a dull ache if not using HCG ? The ache alone was more than enough for me to use HCG...

[JackedJesse]

Yes I knew that too, but he mentioned that insurance doesn't cover hcg . Is that the common norm? Im going to research it now. Thanks for the help.

[FRDave]

Yes I knew that too, but he mentioned that insurance doesn't cover hcg. Is that the common norm? Im going to research it now. Thanks for the help.

Ya, I think most of us purchase out of pocket, but you can get it covered under insurance depending on your provider and how it's coded.

[FRDave]

Make sure to check out the sticky: HCG and Pregnenolone; What you should know.

http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...ould-know.html

[jasondd1]

So here's an update for my situation.

I just saw my endo, and it seems like Im on the right track. He's sending me for more bloodwork because he agreed at my age TRT is a last resort. He's checking estradiol, FSH, LH, Prolactin, total test and free test. He gave me a prescription for tamoxifen 10mgs twice a day in the meantime. By the way my total test was 271. I think Im in good hands. Any comments? Thanks again. -Jesse

It sounds like he is using tamox much like some use clomid for a restart. My guess is there is a decent chance this alone could work if you are jacked up by prior prohormone use. Keep us posted, I'm curious what 4-6 weeks of nolva only does.

[JackedJesse]

Absolutely. Thanks for the link and thanks for the comments. I'll update on my new bloodwork and hopefully he can help get my levels back to normal. If not, I'll be blasting and cruising

[JackedJesse]

He also said hell put me on clomid if the blood comes back in a certain way. Don't remember what he said.

[EverettCD]

Sounds like you're in good hands with your Dr, congratulations. If your Dr. suggests you use HCG , USE IT. I'm a firm believer in HCG for many reasons & benefits.


http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...hcg-works.html

[JackedJesse]

Is there always testicular atrophy from TRT?

[FRDave]

Is there always testicular atrophy from TRT?

From my understanding, eventually yes, as you are shut down and not naturally producing. Some it happens quicker than others, thus, you will hear about people doing cycles with no issues, or at least not noticeable.

[powerlifterty16]

i think if you are primary there is no atrophy.

[JackedJesse]

Primary?

[FRDave]

i think if you are primary there is no atrophy.

You will have experienced atrophy as you become primary, but not necessarily any more on TRT as you have already experienced it. If that makes sense lol

[powerlifterty16]

i guess it makes sense you are saying that trt wont cause any atrophy but youll have it from being primary..tt or not.

jessie primary hypogonadism means testicular failure
secondary means other failure in body resulting in decreased t.

[JackedJesse]

Oh ok, thanks. It comes down to how much it will cost me in the end for the Hcg .

[JackedJesse]

Update:

I got a call from my endos office this morning and apparently all of my bloodwork came back "normal", and the doctor says he doesnt need to treat me. I got the blood work done the day I started the tamoxifen , which was about a week after my original bloodwork that said my total test was 271. The second bloodwork showed my total test at 494. My estradiol was 26. I didnt ask any other levels on the phone, but im having them mail me the lab results. So when I get it ill update again with all of my blood work. He said I can continue taking the tamoxifen until I "feel better". Im guessing hes referring to my puffy nipples and water retention. But if my estradiol is 26, I understand thats in the low range? Why do I still need the tamoxifen? By the way, for the past week I feel like ive been getting better and better. My sex drive is through the roof, my energy levels are back up, im motivated, and im not retaining water like I was before. Im also more social now, whereas before, everything agitated me.

Can my estradiol levels be normal/low from taking 20mgs of tamoxifen only for one day? I dont understand why for a few weeks I felt like crap and my test was obviously low, but only a week later it jumped to 494. Is 494 a good level for an athletic healthy 24 year old? Or does he assume it will continue to rise? I obviously still have concerns because of those few weeks. How do I know if my levels are going to be normal from now on? Should i just get lab work done every few months or if I feel shitty again? I didnt speak to the doctor directly, just his nurse.

Again thanks everyone for your input and help, its much appreciated. -Jesse

[tox2501]

Hey man. I'm glad to see your system is getting back on track.

I can't offer you the same advice as the pro's but remember you only got one body. Being jacked isn't going to make you happy if you end up wrecking you body, you have sexual problems, have to explain to your wife that you cant give her kids because you messed up your hormone system.

It's normal to want to be jacked and have the body of a Greek god, but remember your doing it to make yourself happy which is going to be ****ing hard to do if all your shit is broken. Not going to tell you what to do or what not to do just make sure your trying to reach your goals the safest way possible.

[JackedJesse]

Bump

[dreadnok89]

I had a scathing comment but I didn't see page 2 lol. I see your dealing with a generic form of chlomid? Im pretty sure that raises your e2. If your sensitive estrogen is 26 I don't think that's low. Prob in the middle. Depends on the ranges. My last test was 17.1 and the ranges were 7-42. I feel all right but not as horny. When my me spikes up I get horny and hard like a beast! Estrogen is the cause of the puffy nipples. But if your normal it could all be in your head

[dreadnok89]

Oooo and by the way, if you have 90 total t count how in there friggin world can you put the same amount of time and dedication in the gym as a dude all hopped up on stuff? Impossible. The recover time alone is enough to make impossible, let alone having the drive to get off the damned couch!

[powerlifterty16]

noone here can help you until you start taking some action jesse. You need to get your own blood results and post them here....see if they truly are normal or if your dr is one of the outdated guys who just likes it up above three hundo.

[JackedJesse]

noone here can help you until you start taking some action jesse. You need to get your own blood results and post them here....see if they truly are normal or if your dr is one of the outdated guys who just likes it up above three hundo.

Ok, will do soon

[JackedJesse]

I had a scathing comment but I didn't see page 2 lol. I see your dealing with a generic form of chlomid? Im pretty sure that raises your e2. If your sensitive estrogen is 26 I don't think that's low. Prob in the middle. Depends on the ranges. My last test was 17.1 and the ranges were 7-42. I feel all right but not as horny. When my me spikes up I get horny and hard like a beast! Estrogen is the cause of the puffy nipples. But if your normal it could all be in your head

Im taking nolvadex . The actual drug is tamoxifen or tamoxifen citrate.

[JackedJesse]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE ---Here is my lab results, collected on 09/04/2013:


FSH: 2.9 (Ref Range 1.6-8.0)

LH: 2.1 (Ref Range 1.5-9.3)

Prolactin: 11.3 (Ref Range 2.0-18.0)

Estradiol: 26 (Ref Range < OR = 39)

Testosterone , Total: 494 (Ref Range 250-1100)

Testerone, Free: 103.2 (Ref Range 35-155)

Please note again, Just a week before this lab work was taken, my total Test. was 271.

The note on the paper that the doctor or nurse wrote, says "labs are perfect".

I also have other blood work from original lab test like Lipid Panel, Metabolic Panel, TSH, THyroid Panel, and CBC if anyone wants it. Please give me your input. Are these levels normal or optimal? I'm going to call the Doctor tomorrow and ask to go over my blood work with him and have him explain to me why I experienced my symptoms and the drop in T and why why Im supposedly normal now. By the way I feel normal again for the past week. Not sure if its the tamoxifen or because my Test is higher.

Again, thank you for the advice and input. I'm off to blast my delts. Gotta catch up to DLB.

-Jesse

[powerlifterty16]

lh and fsh are in the tank. this is kind of good though bc your tt is at 500 with low lh and fsh if you could maybe do another pct you may benefit..idk though?

494 is definitley not perfect. anything under 600 is low imo. 494 isnt terrible though.

free t isnt too bad.

you need a pituitary mri, with your shitty lh and fsh combined with high prolactin you ma have a microadenoma

[JackedJesse]

Could it be caused from the suppression of the prohormone I took a few months ago?

The Doctor ruled out the MRI because of my prior bloodwork. I think he said something about the thyroid. Im still taking the tamoxifen 20 mgs a day.