Deca protocol along with TRT?

[Ccdiesel]

Is anyone currently using Deca as a part of a TRT protocol. NOT as a blast or for muscle gain but for it's anti-inflammatory properties.

I am curious if there is a dosing protocol that is sustainable, in the sense that there are no uncontrollable side effects as nanodrolone deconate is a progesterone derivative.

[Beethoven]

Others will chime in but I have read several guys do 100 mgs a week. I plan on adding it to my protocol also.

[kelkel]

Yes, I do.

Dosing protocol is between you and your doc but for most who add it to their TRT the dose is low and similar to their TRT amounts. My TRT dose is 120mg split. I add in about the same amount of deca. You won't have progesterone issues with low dose deca. But as with any change to your protocol, monitor bloods closely to make sure all is well.

ps: you can only have progesterone issues if estrogen is uncontrolled. But again, with such low amounts you'll see none, imho.

[Ccdiesel]

Thanks I appreciate the response guys. Kel what was your reasoning for adding it? If you don't mind me asking.

I also need to add GH. I tested this morning and it did not even register <0.1

[Oldhighlander]

I'd be interested to know to Kel. Anti inflammatory? I need that soooooo much. Is it by script? How much does it help?

[Rrexy]

Ive been thinking about this as well - once my TRT is dialed in.........

[PJS19]

Do doctors prescribe this? I heard it works wonders for joints, I hope I can get this in my protocol

[Beethoven]

Kel, is this protocol for you on going or do you stop the Deca at any time? Secondly, if I were to do even 200 mg a week, would it have to up my test or AI?

[BigPimpin76]

[QUOTE="Beethoven"]Kel, is this protocol for you on going or do you stop the Deca at any time? Secondly, if I were to do even 200 mg a week, would it have to up my test or AI?[/QUOTE

Good Question!!
I would like to know as well ...

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[Ccdiesel]

Still researching, but something to keep in mind, DECA can seriously inhibit inflammation and slow healing in the right dose. Probably not in everyone to the same extent, but I find it to be a significant effect as there are so many reports of "joint pain relief".

That being said, most of us probably have some amount of chronic inflammation and could benefit from a low dose of DECA in our protocol. For myself I have chronic infllammation and essentially no growth hormone most of the time. I would definitely benefit from adding both. Inflammation in the absense of growth factors does not yield healing.

[kelkel]

Thanks I appreciate the response guys. Kel what was your reasoning for adding it? If you don't mind me asking.

I also need to add GH. I tested this morning and it did not even register <0.1

I've beaten my joints to death over the years and still do. Deca helps and you don't need large doses. GH serum testing is pretty much useless, assuming that's what you tested. You need an arginine stimulation test:

Growth hormone stimulation test: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

Look into Sermorelin as a first step.

I'd be interested to know to Kel. Anti inflammatory? I need that soooooo much. Is it by script? How much does it help?

Hi OH. Yes, it helps with joints greatly, imho. Anti-inflammatory, sure. All steroids have anti-inflammatory properties.

Do doctors prescribe this? I heard it works wonders for joints, I hope I can get this in my protocol

Some doctors do. Most are not comfortable as the don't have the knowledge of it. It needs to be compounded as you can't obtain it from a regular pharmacy anymore.

Kel, is this protocol for you on going or do you stop the Deca at any time? Secondly, if I were to do even 200 mg a week, would it have to up my test or AI?

Been about a year now. Don't plan on stopping it as long as BW stays in order. Don't think you need 200 per week. Start at 100 and give it a few months and evaluate, imho. No, you won't have to up your test as deca will not effect it at all. As long as your estrogen is in order on your TRT protocol you should have no worries with your AI. The only time you have to really worry about deca is when estrogen is out of control. Then you can have progesteronic issues. But at these low doses any issue is doubtful.



If I missed anything, holler.

[Beethoven]

As always, a world of knowledge. Thanks Kel.

[killface]

I end up taking a few courses of Prednisone a year due to inflamation caused by torn disks in my spine. I wonder if deca would be a safer option for that kind of inflamation?

[Ccdiesel]

I end up taking a few courses of Prednisone a year due to inflamation caused by torn disks in my spine. I wonder if deca would be a safer option for that kind of inflamation?

If you are injured see a neurosurgeon. You are trying to mask a problem.

[Ccdiesel]

Ya Kel thanks, hopefully doctor agrees with the treatment.

And I will look into the GH stimulation test. I am guessing GH has a very short half life.

[kelkel]

Ya Kel thanks, hopefully doctor agrees with the treatment.

And I will look into the GH stimulation test. I am guessing GH has a very short half life.

Exactly.

[j2048b]

i have deca added to mine, but i just cant get my stuff situated enough to go that route just yet, but once i do, ill be adding deca as well as xandrolone (anavar) as im also prescribed this as well...

[BigPimpin76]

Dont mean to highjack....
I am curious as to know how would deca help in TRT?

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[kelkel]

Dont mean to highjack....
I am curious as to know how would deca help in TRT?

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Joint help. Really not related to TRT at all and has nothing to do with an effective TRT protocol. Just a med that serves a purpose to those in need.

[BigPimpin76]

Joint help. Really not related to TRT at all and has nothing to do with an effective TRT protocol. Just a med that serves a purpose to those in need.

Ok Bro ! Thanks

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[Ccdiesel]

Joint help. Really not related to TRT at all and has nothing to do with an effective TRT protocol. Just a med that serves a purpose to those in need.

Kel, I didn't expect this to interfere with fertility. I found no information that it would, is that correct?

Also, Nanodrolone is the best option right? Not oxandrolone?

[kelkel]

If you're on TRT you're already shut down. Thus we use HCG to keep things functioning. With any drug can come side effects but imho there's no serious issues with low dose deca. Read the side effects of Vitamin C and you'd never take it. Yes, Nandrolone, not anavar. But anavar is one of THE safest orals there is.

As with any protocol change, BW is key to long term health and safety.

Here's one study, unfortunately it's with rats given a nandrolone. Keep in mind the rats are "non TRT-ers." Ha. Most studies seem to deal with women and fertility.

The reversibility of sperm quality after disc... [Asian J Androl. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

[Oldhighlander]

So Kel this is all done with scripts? If it is you have a fantastic doc. You said compounded. Was gonna call the local compounding pharmacy and see if they do it for anyone else. Then try to bring it to my doc. Joint pain relief would be incredible. I to still abuse the shit out of mine.

[fireeater49]

Any medical document studies that would favor deca being used for joint pain? Going to see dr in 3 wks and this elbow and shoulder pain for 1 1/2 years is killing me. Information is gold

[highpsi]

How about 100mg of npp, I assume it'd work about the same?

[Ccdiesel]

Any medical document studies that would favor deca being used for joint pain? Going to see dr in 3 wks and this elbow and shoulder pain for 1 1/2 years is killing me. Information is gold

If you are injured better to see what's going on first. If it's tendonitis or some sort of chronic inflammation deca would be beneficial.

There are a lot of studies. I have not seen any directly related to joint pain treatment.

[Beethoven]

If you are injured better to see what's going on first. If it's tendonitis or some sort of chronic inflammation deca would be beneficial.

There are a lot of studies. I have not seen any directly related to joint pain treatment.

Tweaked muscles also I would imagine?

[killface]

You are trying to mask a problem.

Nope, I've seen a few specialists. Its currently not bad enough to warrant surgery and even if it was, I'm still not sure I'd have it. The current course of treatment is to treat the major inflammation (with the Predinsone) whenever it occurs, which is 2-3 times a year.

The Prednisone works like a boss but, it's tough on the liver. It would be nice to have a healthier, more long term solution; aside from an iffy back surgery.

[Ryanmcd]

I asked Crisler about this and he says it has no place in TRT. Also here are some posts on it, again he is not a god in TRT but he is one of the better docs around.


Here is a quote from his forums.

"
First, check out (another) excellent article by my pal Dr. Jeffrey Dach:

http://jeffreydach.com/2012/07/03/mo...mou-md-19.aspx

He sums things up very well.

So, natural, bioidentical progesterone does not increase breast cancer risk, but synthetic progesterones, known as "progetins", do.

Nandrolone decoanate (Decadurabolin) is a progestin.

We have seen numerous associations between those things that increase breast (and other cancers), and prostate cancer risk.

I'm just sayin'...."



Would GH or a good joint complex like http://www.nutramaxlabs.com/your-hea...lth/cosamin-ds I use it and it's great.+

Also it seems to screw up your thyroid, at last in this test.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16531893/

[kelkel]

So Kel this is all done with scripts? If it is you have a fantastic doc. You said compounded. Was gonna call the local compounding pharmacy and see if they do it for anyone else. Then try to bring it to my doc. Joint pain relief would be incredible. I to still abuse the shit out of mine.

Yes, mine is scripted.

Any medical document studies that would favor deca being used for joint pain? Going to see dr in 3 wks and this elbow and shoulder pain for 1 1/2 years is killing me. Information is gold

Never really looked. I've read it will increase synovial fluid production.

How about 100mg of npp, I assume it'd work about the same?

Just a different ester but who want's to inject EOD.


Re Crisler. I would never contradict that man as I think he's great. That said, to each his own. My experience with low dose deca has been nothing but positive. Hell, high dose too for that matter. Dr. John loves GHRP-6 and uses it routinely. I tried it and had issues with it. My point, one man's meat is another mans poison.

[fireeater49]

If you are injured better to see what's going on first. If it's tendonitis or some sort of chronic inflammation deca would be beneficial.

There are a lot of studies. I have not seen any directly related to joint pain treatment.

Have ALOT of ortho problems I have accumulated over the years (powerlifting and judo) and I am sure that I am lifting probably more than I should but I have been backing off and going more volume lately but the pain is always there especially at night when I sleep. I will try to run this up the flag pole with the dr and see what he says. Meloxicam and IBU have not helped at all

[Ccdiesel]

Have ALOT of ortho problems I have accumulated over the years (powerlifting and judo) and I am sure that I am lifting probably more than I should but I have been backing off and going more volume lately but the pain is always there especially at night when I sleep. I will try to run this up the flag pole with the dr and see what he says. Meloxicam and IBU have not helped at all

I am not familiar with the medications you used. If traditional rest, ice, mild anti inflammatories have been used/failed and there are no significant signs of mechanical injury I would go this route. Rest and pt I have found really useful but not for chronic/nagging issues.

Nope, I've seen a few specialists. Its currently not bad enough to warrant surgery and even if it was, I'm still not sure I'd have it. The current course of treatment is to treat the major inflammation (with the Predinsone) whenever it occurs, which is 2-3 times a year.

The Prednisone works like a boss but, it's tough on the liver. It would be nice to have a healthier, more long term solution; aside from an iffy back surgery.

Yes if they are pushing corticosteroids on you I would opt for deca and see how it works for you. As long as you have no obvious mechanical problems with your joints or "crepitus" "cracking" etc that causes pain or inflammation. The concern would be simply masking an issue and possibly furthering the injury.

[Ryanmcd]

Yes, mine is scripted.



Never really looked. I've read it will increase synovial fluid production.



Just a different ester but who want's to inject EOD.


Re Crisler. I would never contradict that man as I think he's great. That said, to each his own. My experience with low dose deca has been nothing but positive. Hell, high dose too for that matter. Dr. John loves GHRP-6 and uses it routinely. I tried it and had issues with it. My point, one man's meat is another mans poison.

Do you run it year around or in a cycle?

[Ccdiesel]

I asked Crisler about this and he says it has no place in TRT. Also here are some posts on it, again he is not a god in TRT but he is one of the better docs around.


Here is a quote from his forums.

"
First, check out (another) excellent article by my pal Dr. Jeffrey Dach:

http://jeffreydach.com/2012/07/03/mo...mou-md-19.aspx

He sums things up very well.

So, natural, bioidentical progesterone does not increase breast cancer risk, but synthetic progesterones, known as "progetins", do.

Nandrolone decoanate (Decadurabolin) is a progestin.

We have seen numerous associations between those things that increase breast (and other cancers), and prostate cancer risk.

I'm just sayin'...."



Would GH or a good joint complex like Cosamin DS I use it and it's great.+

Also it seems to screw up your thyroid, at last in this test.

Chronic administration of anabolic andr - PubMed Mobile

Your first link that the Dr references does not work. His post gave little to no explanation. He simply said it is not naturally occurring, which we know, does that mean it has no benefit to us? No. Functionally no it serves no purpose in HRT, it is a compound that may provide a better quality of life for some of us based on its documented effects.

Not sure about the effects on thyroid function but bloodwork would let you know that.

[kelkel]

Do you run it year around or in a cycle?

Year round low dose for TRT. I've used in in cycles as well.

[Ryanmcd]

Year round low dose for TRT. I've used in in cycles as well.

I will look into it, I know crisler is not a fan but my other Doc will script whatever so I may give it a shot down the road. Thanks for the info.

[Ccdiesel]

Started new protocol on Saturday. Not sure how long before I see any effects but I will post. If anyone has any potential recommendations I would consider. My script is for a lot more but this is what I felt would be best for me to start with. See below.

Testosterone Cypianate 60 mg every 4 days (105mg a week)
Nandrolone Deconate 60 mg every 4 days (105mg a week)
400iu HCG twice weekly
Vit D3 5000iu once a day

[dreadnok89]

My doc says nano or DECA, is hard to get. Its not as availible. Also would this work psoriasis arthritis on the elbow?

[kelkel]

Started new protocol on Saturday. Not sure how long before I see any effects but I will post. If anyone has any potential recommendations I would consider. My script is for a lot more but this is what I felt would be best for me to start with. See below.

Testosterone Cypianate 60 mg every 4 days (105mg a week)
Nandrolone Deconate 60 mg every 4 days (105mg a week)
400iu HCG twice weekly
Vit D3 5000iu once a day

Looks good.

My doc says nano or DECA, is hard to get. Its not as availible. Also would this work psoriasis arthritis on the elbow?

It's available through compounding pharmacies. No clue but it helps with joint pain so....

[dreadnok89]

Ya kel, he was saying his compounding has a hard time with the demand. I'm gonna research it more.