My concerns re doing TRT with high body fat.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-01-2017, 05:21 PM

Hi, I've read a few things that have me spooked. Am I too overweight to be doing TRT? Have I made a mistake? I'm 15 days in.

I don't have my BFI stats yet, I'm afraid but I am 6ft4 and approx 24 stone.
I'm only injecting 75mgx2 per week of Test-E. Any need for me to be concerned taking such a small amount?

Thoughs?

P.S. Yes, I know I should be healthier, thinner and drink less but I went on TRT as a final attempt to beat depression, tiredness, ED etc. I go to the gym 3-4 times a week and have for 27 years.

**RussianSpets** · 06-01-2017, 05:33 PM

Whats your body fat %?

**anoxicblaze** · 06-01-2017, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by RussianSpets

Whats your body fat %?

Don't have that yet. Spent all night trying to find a boditrax machine. I found one.

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**RussianSpets** · 06-01-2017, 05:49 PM

How much weight have you lost so far? How is your meal planning? Adding in TRT and being at a high body fat isn't really good from what I've heard and the estrogen conversion rate is even worse. Either way non of us would've listened anyway and jumped straight in. Check out some of the threads on here for first cycle tips

**anoxicblaze** · 06-01-2017, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by RussianSpets

How much weight have you lost so far? How is your meal planning? Adding in TRT and being at a high body fat isn't really good from what I've heard and the estrogen conversion rate is even worse. Either way non of us would've listened anyway and jumped straight in. Check out some of the threads on here for first cycle tips

I'm on it for life. It isn't a cycle. My test levels were 268. I have just come off SSRI's which caused quite a few problems for me too. I'm not doing it to look good on a beach (though that is a very long term goal), I'm doing it because I was quite ill. I would say I've lost maybe 28lb since Christmas in fat and gained about 10lb in muscle. I was hoping the new energy levels and lease of life would aid my weight loss too.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-01-2017, 06:21 PM

Maybe I should start with the arimidex , just incase.

**Quester** · 06-01-2017, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

I'm on it for life. It isn't a cycle. My test levels were 268. I have just come off SSRI's which caused quite a few problems for me too. I'm not doing it to look good on a beach (though that is a very long term goal), I'm doing it because I was quite ill. I would say I've lost maybe 28lb since Christmas in fat and gained about 10lb in muscle. I was hoping the new energy levels and lease of life would aid my weight loss too.

Sounds like its working for you.
Also, "Maybe I should start with the arimidex , just in case," ...your not taking an AI? That is very disturbing to hear. Hi-BF converts test to estro faster. Everyone takes an AI and most of them are no where near your risk category. Don't get your doc to give you an AI, get a new doc. And, read a little more of the info available.

I'm also taking TRT for qual of life issues. I'm happy to hear that it is working for you. Keep it up!

**kelkel** · 06-01-2017, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

Maybe I should start with the arimidex, just incase.

No. Never take a drug "just in case." Base everything in the TRT world on blood work.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-01-2017, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

No. Never take a drug "just in case." Base everything in the TRT world on blood work.

Another four weeks until that. I have the pills. I've decided to take them. 0.5 x2 a week. Then let's see what my levels are like in four weeks.

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**almostgone** · 06-02-2017, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

Another four weeks until that. I have the pills. I've decided to take them. 0.5 x2 a week. Then let's see what my levels are like in four weeks.

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That may well be too much. I'm injecting 60mg of cyp 2x/week and .25mg 2x/week has me at the bottom end of the range on E2. As Kel posted, you really need to base it on actual E2 values.

**Back In Black** · 06-02-2017, 02:05 AM

No offence but I bet if you didn't start self administering TRT and changed your lifestyle and lost a lot of fat your symptoms would improve no end.

24 stone is 335lbs, you should be looking at losing 100lbs (7 stone) minimum and absolutely not be considering any kind of cycle.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Back In Black

No offence but I bet if you didn't start self administering TRT and changed your lifestyle and lost a lot of fat your symptoms would improve no end.

24 stone is 335lbs, you should be looking at losing 100lbs (7 stone) minimum and absolutely not be considering any kind of cycle.

I'm not doing a cycle. I haven't always been this weight. I've had worse symptoms when thinner, actually. My recent blood work was good. No stars next to any numbers. My cholesterol is a bit high and my test levels low obviously. Most of the fat is on my belly. I lift heavy. I've been avoiding trt for ten years. Now I'm giving it a go. I know how to get low body fat just in a bit of a lull at the moment.

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**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

That may well be too much. I'm injecting 60mg of cyp 2x/week and .25mg 2x/week has me at the bottom end of the range on E2. As Kel posted, you really need to base it on actual E2 values.

Maybe I will do 0.5 once a week. Not easy cutting those pills into four accurately.

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**Sh0tsf1red** · 06-02-2017, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

Maybe I will do 0.5 once a week. Not easy cutting those pills into four accurately.

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Are you seeing a doctor for TRT or just you and the rest of the bros thought it was a good idea?

Can't imagine you doctor wouldn't have tested estrogen or talked about AI if/when necessary

**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sh0tsf1red

Are you seeing a doctor for TRT or just you and the rest of the bros thought it was a good idea?

Can't imagine you doctor wouldn't have tested estrogen or talked about AI if/when necessary

Rest of the bros? Who are they? Yes, I've seen my GP and another about it. They wouldn't help. NHS in the UK don't like doing TRT. There were no oestrogen readings in my results. It was hard enough getting them to test for testosterone .

I know it's frowned upon to go over the GP's head but come on...have you seen other posts. Best not to judge. We choose our own path. Very small dosage.

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**almostgone** · 06-02-2017, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

Maybe I will do 0.5 once a week. Not easy cutting those pills into four accurately.

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You don't have to be exceptionally accurate. Just split it in half with a pill splitter and then split it again. Crashed E2 would not be fun.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

You don't have to be exceptionally accurate. Just split it in half with a pill splitter and then split it again. Crashed E2 would not be fun.

Okay. I will use a razor blade. Thanks.

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**Chicagotarsier** · 06-02-2017, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by almostgone

That may well be too much. I'm injecting 60mg of cyp 2x/week and .25mg 2x/week has me at the bottom end of the range on E2. As Kel posted, you really need to base it on actual E2 values.

Why I do not understand why Adex would be issued and not Aromasin . You cannot bottom out on Aromasin unless you use it like protein shake mix.

You are never too fat for TrT. If you need test you need test.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier

Why I do not understand why Adex would be issued and not Aromasin . You cannot bottom out on Aromasin unless you use it like protein shake mix.

You are never too fat for TrT. If you need test you need test.

I agree. Just voicing some concerns because I have to wait four bloody weeks for my next tests. Estro, RBC, Test etc . Still haven't woken up with wood yet. Looking forward to that. Too much info?

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**Youthful55guy** · 06-02-2017, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

No. Never take a drug "just in case." Base everything in the TRT world on blood work.

I couldn't agree with this more!

I find in these forums that guys who begin TRT are paranoid to the nth degree about the evil E word. They then jump off the cliff when their nipples become a little more sensitive. GUYS NEED ESTROGEN TOO. Without it, you cannot have a normal erection. If you start popping anastrozol (or any other E2 inhibitor) without proper labs, you are shooting in the dark. The goal of TRT is to move your hormones back into normal physiologic ranges. That may mean that your estrogen goes up a little and, yes, that may make your nipples a little more reactive. But is that good or bad? It's good (and even pleasurable) if its part of hormone readjustment to a more normal range. It's only bad if you start developing female breast tissue. The only way you are going to know if the early signs are good or bad is with proper labs.

Estrogen gets such a bad rap because of bodybuilder abuses of the hormone. If you shoot ridiculously high levels of T (and BTW, your dose is approaching that), you may indeed have conversion issues and that may put you at risk of gynecomastia . However, you have to remember that in the BB world, they often stack hormones without a lot of thought into how they might interact. Some hormones have progesterone-like effects, when progesterone is elevated along with elevated E2, the risk of gynecomastia (a really bad case) increases considerably. The two hormones work synergistically to cause development of breast tissue. here again, this is from BB abuse of the hormones and does not apply to us, yet the fear carries over to these forums as "Bro Science".

My advice: 1) Lower your dose to closer to 100 mg per week and do in in divided doses; 2) Follow this up in about 6 weeks with a full set of labs (including E2) and make a decision on whether you need to do a dose adjustment or add an estrogen inhibitor (or blocker); and 3) follow up with regular labs (I generally recommend every 6 months) and adjust from there.

**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

I couldn't agree with this more!

I find in these forums that guys who begin TRT are paranoid to the nth degree about the evil E word. They then jump off the cliff when their nipples become a little more sensitive. GUYS NEED ESTROGEN TOO. Without it, you cannot have a normal erection. If you start popping anastrozol (or any other E2 inhibitor) without proper labs, you are shooting in the dark. The goal of TRT is to move your hormones back into normal physiologic ranges. That may mean that your estrogen goes up a little and, yes, that may make your nipples a little more reactive. But is that good or bad? It's good (and even pleasurable) if its part of hormone readjustment to a more normal range. It's only bad if you start developing female breast tissue. The only way you are going to know if the early signs are good or bad is with proper labs.

Estrogen gets such a bad rap because of bodybuilder abuses of the hormone. If you shoot ridiculously high levels of T (and BTW, your dose is approaching that), you may indeed have conversion issues and that may put you at risk of gynecomastia . However, you have to remember that in the BB world, they often stack hormones without a lot of thought into how they might interact. Some hormones have progesterone-like effects, when progesterone is elevated along with elevated E2, the risk of gynecomastia (a really bad case) increases considerably. The two hormones work synergistically to cause development of breast tissue. here again, this is from BB abuse of the hormones and does not apply to us, yet the fear carries over to these forums as "Bro Science".

My advice: 1) Lower your dose to closer to 100 mg per week and do in in divided doses; 2) Follow this up in about 6 weeks with a full set of labs (including E2) and make a decision on whether you need to do a dose adjustment or add an estrogen inhibitor (or blocker); and 3) follow up with regular labs (I generally recommend every 6 months) and adjust from there.

Thanks. I will just wait four weeks until my blood test. My original plan. Hopefully I won't have breasts and thick blood in just six weeks of TRT.

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**anoxicblaze** · 06-02-2017, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Youthful55guy

I couldn't agree with this more!

I find in these forums that guys who begin TRT are paranoid to the nth degree about the evil E word. They then jump off the cliff when their nipples become a little more sensitive. GUYS NEED ESTROGEN TOO. Without it, you cannot have a normal erection. If you start popping anastrozol (or any other E2 inhibitor) without proper labs, you are shooting in the dark. The goal of TRT is to move your hormones back into normal physiologic ranges. That may mean that your estrogen goes up a little and, yes, that may make your nipples a little more reactive. But is that good or bad? It's good (and even pleasurable) if its part of hormone readjustment to a more normal range. It's only bad if you start developing female breast tissue. The only way you are going to know if the early signs are good or bad is with proper labs.

Estrogen gets such a bad rap because of bodybuilder abuses of the hormone. If you shoot ridiculously high levels of T (and BTW, your dose is approaching that), you may indeed have conversion issues and that may put you at risk of gynecomastia . However, you have to remember that in the BB world, they often stack hormones without a lot of thought into how they might interact. Some hormones have progesterone-like effects, when progesterone is elevated along with elevated E2, the risk of gynecomastia (a really bad case) increases considerably. The two hormones work synergistically to cause development of breast tissue. here again, this is from BB abuse of the hormones and does not apply to us, yet the fear carries over to these forums as "Bro Science".

My advice: 1) Lower your dose to closer to 100 mg per week and do in in divided doses; 2) Follow this up in about 6 weeks with a full set of labs (including E2) and make a decision on whether you need to do a dose adjustment or add an estrogen inhibitor (or blocker); and 3) follow up with regular labs (I generally recommend every 6 months) and adjust from there.

You think 150mg a week (75mgx2) is approaching "ridiculously high levels"? I have to disagree.

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**Youthful55guy** · 06-03-2017, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by anoxicblaze

You think 150mg a week (75mgx2) is approaching "ridiculously high levels"? I have to disagree.

I commend you for breaking that up into smaller twice weekly doses. That decision will minimize hormone spikes and the possibility of excessive aromatization. However, yes, I do believe that 150 mg per week is too high of a starting dose. I believe that the best approach to starting TRT is to start low and work up as labs dictate. It takes about 6 weeks for your endocrine system to adjust to a dose alteration and come to a new equilibrium. I believe that 50 mg twice weekly is a better choice as a starting dose.

Hope it all works out for you. Looks like you are doing your research.

**jwh7699** · 06-04-2017, 01:32 PM

Like said above you're "You are never too fat for TrT. If you need test you need test."

Having normal Hormone levels can help you Physically as well as Mentally.

Having a high BF% can convert more Test to Estrogen, but if you don't do TRT then it's converting it when your Testosterone level is very low compared to when it's Higher with injections.

I do 70mg of Test C 2 x a week. IMO your Test dosing is fine.

Personally I would stop the AI.

Having a higher than average Estrogen level is not going to hurt you for the short term, it's better than taking an AI and stopping your E2 level entirely.

I recently did that. Took .40 mg of Arimidex 2 x a week (I take the liquid kind) and my last E2 blood work 2 weeks ago was a 2 .

I stopped the Arimidex and will wait a few weeks and get blood work done to see where it is at.

Personally I would continue with your current Test Dose, stop the AI. Get your Total T, Free T, Estradiol - Sensitive, and Hematocrit levels checked in a few weeks and then adjust accordingly.