TRT and mast

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-11-2018, 05:05 AM

Good morning community,
I was going to do a cycle, but I just started TRT and I have to go back in 3 months to do more bloodwork (which is not enough time to order the stuff, do a cycle, and get everything back to normal). Unfortunately, the doc started me off on 100mgs and I want to be between 150-200. Technically I should be at the lowest dose that alleviates the symptoms, but I am the type of person that wants 110% on everything, average has never been good enough for me (as I am sure any fellow body builder can relate to).

So I decided I wanted to supplement my TRT dose with Mast. I was thinking the 100mg test cyp (my prescribed TRT dose) + 150-200mg mast. And since mast does not aromatize I wont have to worry about AI or anything.
What does everyone think?
ScotchGuard, feel free to chime in bud I know you had mentioned something about this before but I cannot find that reply.

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-11-2018, 02:40 PM

Also, Mast e or p?

**Couchlockd** · 07-11-2018, 04:56 PM

P in and out quicker if bloods need pulled my endo

Running mast equal to trt dose

**Windex** · 07-11-2018, 05:00 PM

I would never jeopardize my TRT for a marginal gain. You have the rest of your life there's no rush. Additionally, supplementing your TRT with more Test is going to work backwards because the doctor will see higher levels and may decide for example 80mg/week is better than 100mg/week. I would get the TRT dialed in, develop a relationship with your doctor, then worry about adding on comnpounds when you are down to bloodwork twice a year or whatever protocol the two of you decide upon. An extra 50mg of Test per week is not going to make or break your body composition so you need to remove that mental roadblock.

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-11-2018, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

I would never jeopardize my TRT for a marginal gain. You have the rest of your life there's no rush. Additionally, supplementing your TRT with more Test is going to work backwards because the doctor will see higher levels and may decide for example 80mg/week is better than 100mg/week. I would get the TRT dialed in, develop a relationship with your doctor, then worry about adding on comnpounds when you are down to bloodwork twice a year or whatever protocol the two of you decide upon. An extra 50mg of Test per week is not going to make or break your body composition so you need to remove that mental roadblock.

I am still dealing with low-t symptoms on 100mgs, Ive been dealing with it for years and cant take it anymore, thats why I want to supplement. I am not planning on throwing off my BW, I plan on stop in enough time to get it back to normal. I SHOULD (if I want to rationalize it) just add an extra 50 of test cyp, but I am compulsive and go overboard on everything so I came up with (in my warped mind) 150-200 mast (and I dont have to deal with AI)

Im summary, not planning on throwing off TRT, just at the end of my rope with the symptoms, and want to live with a higher testosterone level for a while. I need a break dude!

**Windex** · 07-11-2018, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

I am still dealing with low-t symptoms on 100mgs, Ive been dealing with it for years and cant take it anymore, thats why I want to supplement. I am not planning on throwing off my BW, I plan on stop in enough time to get it back to normal. I SHOULD (if I want to rationalize it) just add an extra 50 of test cyp, but I am compulsive and go overboard on everything so I came up with (in my warped mind) 150-200 mast (and I dont have to deal with AI)

Im summary, not planning on throwing off TRT, just at the end of my rope with the symptoms, and want to live with a higher testosterone level for a while. I need a break dude!

You said you just started TRT and yet you are dealing with low symptoms at 100 mg. It takes time to get everything dialed in. It took me a year before my protocol was dialed in. Started at 100mg, went as high as 200mg, finished at 150mg. I actually felt better on 150mg than 200mg. If you continue to have low symptoms month in and month out then you should inform the doctor at the point so he/she can make adjustments. A few weeks or a month on TRT doesn't paint a good enough picture to find out what your dose should be.

I'm not saying it's going to take you a year like it did for me but.. you can't expect to Bench Press 315 lbs after only training for 1 month, TRT is no different. You can't expect everything to be fixed after only just starting TRT. It sounds less about Low T symptoms and more of a psychological barrier.

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-12-2018, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

You said you just started TRT and yet you are dealing with low symptoms at 100 mg. It takes time to get everything dialed in. It took me a year before my protocol was dialed in. Started at 100mg, went as high as 200mg, finished at 150mg. I actually felt better on 150mg than 200mg. If you continue to have low symptoms month in and month out then you should inform the doctor at the point so he/she can make adjustments. A few weeks or a month on TRT doesn't paint a good enough picture to find out what your dose should be.

I'm not saying it's going to take you a year like it did for me but.. you can't expect to Bench Press 315 lbs after only training for 1 month, TRT is no different. You can't expect everything to be fixed after only just starting TRT. It sounds less about Low T symptoms and more of a psychological barrier.

The decision to go on TRT has nothing to do with gains. I legitimately need it. Bench pressing 315 is a goal, but one that can wait, not too long though :P
Thats true. I am only ~3 weeks in, and (apparently) changes are not noticed until 5-6 weeks. But most of what I read, 150 seems like the place to be. Symptoms started when my levels were at 500 a couple years ago .Yes I know that is in the middle of the range, yes I know it is rare, but it does happen and unfortunately I am one of those few. The last year my levels have averaged in the low 400. I have been tested for everything else 2 different doctors could think of (the first doc wasnt solving the problem so I went to another).
So my thought is, if 200mg is the high end of the range, 100 would put me in the middle. Ive been in the middle, still had the same problems, and didnt have to stick a needle in my leg. So I am just bypassing the whole thing, supplementing until it is adjusted accordingly, and not wasting more time being miserable. Could 100mg be enough? Very possible. Am I willing to wait another 3 weeks to find out? Nope.
I am not sure who here has dealt with low t, but not noticing an attractive female walk by you, having your penis being asleep on the job, and not even having the inclination to watch porn for weeks at a time, sucks (not to mention the fatigue and everything else). I want to watch porn windex! Just let me watch porn!

**cousinmuscles** · 07-12-2018, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

The decision to go on TRT has nothing to do with gains. I legitimately need it. Bench pressing 315 is a goal, but one that can wait, not too long though :P
Thats true. I am only ~3 weeks in, and (apparently) changes are not noticed until 5-6 weeks. But most of what I read, 150 seems like the place to be. Symptoms started when my levels were at 500 a couple years ago .Yes I know that is in the middle of the range, yes I know it is rare, but it does happen and unfortunately I am one of those few. The last year my levels have averaged in the low 400. I have been tested for everything else 2 different doctors could think of (the first doc wasnt solving the problem so I went to another).
So my thought is, if 200mg is the high end of the range, 100 would put me in the middle. Ive been in the middle, still had the same problems, and didnt have to stick a needle in my leg. So I am just bypassing the whole thing, supplementing until it is adjusted accordingly, and not wasting more time being miserable. Could 100mg be enough? Very possible. Am I willing to wait another 3 weeks to find out? Nope.
I am not sure who here has dealt with low t, but not noticing an attractive female walk by you, having your penis being asleep on the job, and not even having the inclination to watch porn for weeks at a time, sucks (not to mention the fatigue and everything else). I want to watch porn windex! Just let me watch porn!

Don't assume what test dose will put you where. It needs to stabilize for 6 weeks or so then you measure peak and trough.

**Windex** · 07-12-2018, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

The decision to go on TRT has nothing to do with gains. I legitimately need it. Bench pressing 315 is a goal, but one that can wait, not too long though :P
Thats true. I am only ~3 weeks in, and (apparently) changes are not noticed until 5-6 weeks. But most of what I read, 150 seems like the place to be. Symptoms started when my levels were at 500 a couple years ago .Yes I know that is in the middle of the range, yes I know it is rare, but it does happen and unfortunately I am one of those few. The last year my levels have averaged in the low 400. I have been tested for everything else 2 different doctors could think of (the first doc wasnt solving the problem so I went to another).
So my thought is, if 200mg is the high end of the range, 100 would put me in the middle. Ive been in the middle, still had the same problems, and didnt have to stick a needle in my leg. So I am just bypassing the whole thing, supplementing until it is adjusted accordingly, and not wasting more time being miserable. Could 100mg be enough? Very possible. Am I willing to wait another 3 weeks to find out? Nope.
I am not sure who here has dealt with low t, but not noticing an attractive female walk by you, having your penis being asleep on the job, and not even having the inclination to watch porn for weeks at a time, sucks (not to mention the fatigue and everything else). I want to watch porn windex! Just let me watch porn!

I can't help you then. Maybe someone will disagree with what I've said to give you the answer you want to hear.

**macmathews** · 07-12-2018, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

The decision to go on TRT has nothing to do with gains. I legitimately need it. Bench pressing 315 is a goal, but one that can wait, not too long though :P
Thats true. I am only ~3 weeks in, and (apparently) changes are not noticed until 5-6 weeks. But most of what I read, 150 seems like the place to be. Symptoms started when my levels were at 500 a couple years ago .Yes I know that is in the middle of the range, yes I know it is rare, but it does happen and unfortunately I am one of those few. The last year my levels have averaged in the low 400. I have been tested for everything else 2 different doctors could think of (the first doc wasnt solving the problem so I went to another).
So my thought is, if 200mg is the high end of the range, 100 would put me in the middle. Ive been in the middle, still had the same problems, and didnt have to stick a needle in my leg. So I am just bypassing the whole thing, supplementing until it is adjusted accordingly, and not wasting more time being miserable. Could 100mg be enough? Very possible. Am I willing to wait another 3 weeks to find out? Nope.
I am not sure who here has dealt with low t, but not noticing an attractive female walk by you, having your penis being asleep on the job, and not even having the inclination to watch porn for weeks at a time, sucks (not to mention the fatigue and everything else). I want to watch porn windex! Just let me watch porn!

You want to feel better , but cannot wait another 3 weeks to do so ??
Patience , patience , patience.. Just adding more T likely isn't the answer.. Go slow , you should be giving it 2-3months without changing anything to see how you feel..

If Low T is your issue.. I'd be VERY suprised that 100mg a week won't help in the libido department.. ( give it 10-12 weeks )

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-12-2018, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

Don't assume what test dose will put you where. It needs to stabilize for 6 weeks or so then you measure peak and trough.

Speaking of which, my next appointment is in a little less than 3 months, but he wants me to get blood work 2 weeks before. He did not mention WHEN (in relation to when I pin). Suggestions?

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-12-2018, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

I can't help you then. Maybe someone will disagree with what I've said to give you the answer you want to hear.

Quite dismissive Windex, I like you and respect your advice. You brought up some valid points and I thought raised valid concerns. If my reasoning is faulted, please inform, but don't just assume I am looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear. If that were the case, I would not have bothered making a post and just done what I wanted. The last sentence was meant to point out how frustrated I am with the symptoms, not back you into a corner....

**cousinmuscles** · 07-13-2018, 05:14 AM

Talk about it with your doctor so they're in the know. If you pin enanthate twice a week then peak is approx 1 day after and trough is right before you pin. I'm not sure docs do this for enanthate routinely but they should. For Nebido injections are months apart so this is easy to measure.

Give the libido effects time to come. Here's an argument for why you don't want more than you need re test. High test will require an AI and that will likely impact lipids. High test itself impacts lipids negatively too. High test increases erythropoiesis (thickening of the blood) to the point where you might need to donate blood just from the TRT. So you finish a cycle and keep going on with your TRT dose and wait for your lipids etc to come back to normal. Well guess what they won't come back perfect and they will take longer to become a little better.

**Couchlockd** · 07-13-2018, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by cousinmuscles

Talk about it with your doctor so they're in the know. If you pin enanthate twice a week then peak is approx 1 day after and trough is right before you pin. I'm not sure docs do this for enanthate routinely but they should. For Nebido injections are months apart so this is easy to measure.

Give the libido effects time to come. Here's an argument for why you don't want more than you need re test. High test will require an AI and that will likely impact lipids. High test itself impacts lipids negatively too. High test increases erythropoiesis (thickening of the blood) to the point where you might need to donate blood just from the TRT. So you finish a cycle and keep going on with your TRT dose and wait for your lipids etc to come back to normal. Well guess what they won't come back perfect and they will take longer to become a little better.

Damn. Always a price to pay with AAS no matter what dose, theraputic and recreational.

Kinda makes you rethink what you thought, no?

**cousinmuscles** · 07-13-2018, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Couchlockd

Damn. Always a price to pay with AAS no matter what dose, theraputic and recreational.

Kinda makes you rethink what you thought, no?

Yep I hoped to at least do fine after a PCT so I could stay natural. Funny thing is there are lots of people who cycled for years and years and do a PCT and recover just fine... Funny thing is marcus told me he knows of an IFBB pro who has done what he has done and still does a PCT after a cycle and does fine naturally (that must be an exception though). IMO if you can and you feel normal there is no reason not to. I don't fare well with PCTs and I feel a ton better on TRT than what I did before.

When on TRT you are bound to so many things it's hard not to regret it. It is all like a laboratory experiment where you keep your body functioning by pulling levers here and there and having to control variables through blood work. So why create more trouble by keeping your test levels above what a human being is made to have? To create more issues to solve? Forget the more is better approach here, you'll keep the gains just as well.

I regret wanting to gain more than what I could naturally and this won't change so... I'm neck deep in this shit lol

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-13-2018, 08:02 PM

I’ve been doing this for almost a year and I find it somewhat enjoyable...
only issue I have is over thinking and over worrying about sides and organs etc ... and it winds up driv By me crazy when it’s all in my head.
I feel once you dial in your shit and you know how to cycle / TRT correctly , it’s all breezy.
Life is short, why not have a little fun but be smart about it.
Besides pct drugs are terrible for you. Probably healthier just doing TRT for life then on and off pct . Just my .02