RBC count on the rise even though I'm lowering my dose?

**ks1234** · 09-23-2018, 12:39 PM

Hi all, a couple of months ago I posted about my RBC being a bit high. It's always been around 52 but then it started reading about 54 consistently. I lowered my dose from 160mg/wk to 140 mg/wk for 2 months and I went to give blood last week and my RBC count was 58 (60 being the maximum they will accept blood without a doctor's note). What gives? Could I possibly have some other kind of underlying issue that's causing my RBC to rise? What steps so I need to take to look into this issue further?

Edit- I've donated blood every 2 months for the last 6 months

**Windex** · 09-23-2018, 02:08 PM

Not really enough information provided.

Are you consistent with your bloodwork - ie - same time and same day of the week ? If you are doing it monday evening one time and thursday morning the next time it's not consistent.

Any change to diet or supplements ? Any new or change in medication ? Alcohol or Smoking?

**ks1234** · 09-23-2018, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Windex

Not really enough information provided.

Are you consistent with your bloodwork - ie - same time and same day of the week ? If you are doing it monday evening one time and thursday morning the next time it's not consistent.

Any change to diet or supplements ? Any new or change in medication ? Alcohol or Smoking?

From what I understand is the only thing that can really effect HC levels significantly in a short amount of time is your hydration levels so the day of the week/time of day I get it tested should not significantly effect my levels. I will say that it is roughly the same time of day when I donate.

As for the other questions not really would be the answer I would give. Diet is cleaned up a bit so I'm eating less sugar and carbs. Only change in supplements is that I incorporated milkthisyle and alpha liponic acid. I drink 6-12 drinks a week and I smoke a cigar every weekend but that has been the norm for a couple of years

**almostgone** · 09-23-2018, 04:14 PM

Sleep apnea? Perhaps consider donating blood occasionally, you would be helping someone else out. Just don't overdo it.
Keep an eye on your ferritin if you donate frequently. Some people say that a high HCT isn't a concern as long as your platelet count is in the normal range, but I don't buy into that.

**Beetlegeuse** · 09-23-2018, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by almostgone

...Some people say that a high HCT isn't a concern as long as your platelet count is in the normal range, but I don't buy into that.

I buy into it. First, there isn't a single documented case of anybody ever dying from too much Hct.

Second, EPO probably entered the pro cycling peloton in 1987 (give or take one season). And there was no direct test for EPO until 2006. That makes for 19 years when everybody in pro cycling took all the EPO they wanted. And we know to a certainty there were riders competing with an Hct as high as 60 (Marco Pantani in 1995 and Bjarne Riis in 1996, for two). Anybody who expected to remain competitive had to be 50+. And the only death that occurred in pro cycling in all those years was when Fabio Casartelli (a teammate of Lance Pharmstrong's) rode head first into a stone guardrail in the 1995 Tour de France.

A hospital in South Korea gave two heart attack patients a 10x overdose of EPO and neither one even suffered any adverse side effects. One of them also was diabetic and had high blood pressure, so you think he'd have been easy to push into an open grave.

Too much EPO never killed anybody either.

**ks1234** · 09-23-2018, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Beetlegeuse

(Lance Pharmstrong's)

Haven't had a chuckle like that all day. Thanks a bunch

**Youthful55guy** · 09-24-2018, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by ks1234

Hi all, a couple of months ago I posted about my RBC being a bit high. It's always been around 52 but then it started reading about 54 consistently. I lowered my dose from 160mg/wk to 140 mg/wk for 2 months and I went to give blood last week and my RBC count was 58 (60 being the maximum they will accept blood without a doctor's note). What gives? Could I possibly have some other kind of underlying issue that's causing my RBC to rise? What steps so I need to take to look into this issue further?

Edit- I've donated blood every 2 months for the last 6 months

Per previous discussion, hydration can have an effect on hemoglobin levels, but only marginally. You are over the line of being marginally high.

Lowering you dose seems to be the only option. however, we know little about your protocol. Is that 140 mg of T-cyp once per week? If so, consider breaking it up into smaller doses and dropping the overall amount to 120mg per week (e.g. 60 mg 2X per week). You will have much more stable levels with less T. Even that is on the high side of what most guys need on a 2X per week protocol.

Also keep in mind, that it takes a long time for hemoglobin levels to drop after a dose adjustment. The lifespan of a hemoglobin molecule is about 3 months. So what you do today won't show up for another 3 months.