Hair loss on try dose?

[simm]

Is it possible to loose hair on 120mg week of testosterone cypionate ?
It's definitely happening to me but I just wondered how common that would be at such a low dose?

[Youthful55guy]

Is it possible to loose hair on 120mg week of testosterone cypionate ?
It's definitely happening to me but I just wondered how common that would be at such a low dose?

Oh yes! And that's not a "low" dose, it's a moderate dose.

The higher you go on T, the more that gets converted to DHT. If you are genetically programmed for hair loss, the higher DHT goes, the faster it will fall out. Pretty much as simple as that.

My biggest regret when I started TRT 7+ years ago is not looking seriously at combatting this side-effect. I wish I knew then what I know now. My suggestion is to ignore the Finasteride skeptics and get your DHT to within the upper end of the range and monitor it regularly if you are not already doing it.

Also, I just discovered that Finasteride can be applied topically to the scalp with fewer sexual side-effects than orally. I've been using a combination of oral and topical finasteride for a couple months. My experience is that oral finasteride is very effective at lowering DHT, so you don't need a lot to get it within range. I was at 0.8 mg/day and that brought my DHT down from an average of 146 (7 measurements) to about 50 (normal = 38-85 ng/dL). At that time I was also applying 0.5 mg/day (0.25mg 2X/day) to the scalp.


A few days ago, I lowered my oral finasteride dose to 0.5 mg and increased my topical dose to 0.88 mg/day. I basically flipped the ratios of oral and topical and kept the overall daily dose the same. I'm hopping that this will allow my DHT to increase to the upper end of normal (but still within normal) and move more of it to the scalp where it's needed the most.

Instructions for 0.44 mg/mL (apply 2X/day = 0.88 mg/day)

• Add 1.75 mL of 5 mg/mL Finasteride to eyedropper bottle (in Polyethylene Glycol)
• Add 18.25 mL of Minoxidil 5% solution (alcoholPropylene Glycol/Water)
• Results in 20 mL solution at 0.4375 mg/mL
• Apply 1 mL 2X per day = ~0.88 mg/day (10 day supply)

Instructions for daily oral dosing with eye dropper
Dissolve 1 tablet (5 mg Finasteride) into 2.0 mL vodka (~83 drops) = 2.5 mg/mL = 0.060 mg/drop.
8 drops/day X 0.06mg/drop = 0.48mg/day (about 0.5mg)

[simm]

Thanks bro. You certainly covered everything for me there!

[JdFlex]

He's dead on.

I use dutasteride instead of finasteride but only on cycle, not with normal TRT.

[mac34]

Now that you asked, I have this problem. I'm losing hair like crazy at 2x40mg per week at 23yo.

I tried to avoid considering finasteride, now I don't know after seeing Youthful's post. I like my hair when they are pretty trim (9mm top, 3mm sides), but I don't know if I will like the bald look or "Jason Statham" look. Part of me thinks fuck it, let it roll and don't take another drug to screw up your hormones (I already have a very bad aromatase with T alone). But then, if I lose my hair, or whatever left of it, I lose my hair.

It's starts to looking a bit screwed up. Now that my hair has regrown a little, in some lighting I have a birds nest look. It all happened within 2 months basically.

Are hair transplants effective?

[GearHeaded]

Is it possible to loose hair on 120mg week of testosterone cypionate ?
It's definitely happening to me but I just wondered how common that would be at such a low dose?

are you taking Proviron , or any other oral that lowers SHBG ?

[Youthful55guy]

Now that you asked, I have this problem. I'm losing hair like crazy at 2x40mg per week at 23yo.

I tried to avoid considering finasteride, now I don't know after seeing Youthful's post. I like my hair when they are pretty trim (9mm top, 3mm sides), but I don't know if I will like the bald look or "Jason Statham" look. Part of me thinks fuck it, let it roll and don't take another drug to screw up your hormones (I already have a very bad aromatase with T alone). But then, if I lose my hair, or whatever left of it, I lose my hair.

It's starts to looking a bit screwed up. Now that my hair has regrown a little, in some lighting I have a birds nest look. It all happened within 2 months basically.

Are hair transplants effective?

I'm convinced that you need to test you DHT levels regularly in addition to Total T, Free T, and E2. I was shocked at how high mine was with 0.44mh E3D (~100 mg/wk). Way out of range. If you are genetically programmed to lose hair, then high DHT will greatly speed up the process.

I became more interested in DHT after reading a recent medical article that correlated high DHT levels in men on TRT with erythrocytosis. The study showed that men on TRT but also taking finasteride had much lower DHT levels and lower hemoglobin/hematocrit. Got me to think that if I could keep DHT in range with finasteride and E2 in range with anastrozole, I might be able to increase my T-dose and eliminate the need for stanozolol to suppress my high SHBG and at the same time eliminate the need for regular blood donations.

My experiment is still in its early phase, but the results are very promising. I'm currently at 200 mg per week in an E2D protocol and that put my Free T high out of range, but I was also low on E2 using 1.1 mg anastrozole per week (daily eye dropper method) and nicely in range with DHT using combination of 0.84mg oral finasteride = 0.5mg topical finasteride on the scalp. Next step is to lower the anastrozole to bring E2 closer to the upper end of the range and flip the ratios of oral/topical finasteride. I'll retest after 6 weeks of this protocol and then decide if/how much to reduce my T dose. I'll also pull CBC labs to convince myself that my hemoglobin is staying in range too.

[mac34]

I think the thing with hair loss is also the hormone spikes we get after shots. Maybe it's in my head, but I take E3D too, and the day I take a shot, I feel a burning sensation on my scalp. This is also when I notice hair falling out. While on the last day, just before the shot, it's fine. Perhaps one way to combat this would be to decrease single dose and inject E2D.

Do you think that applying finasteride on hair directly would do much to stop hair loss? Or is taking it orally a requirement?

By the way, can you use the vodka method to dissolve any med? I'm thinking examestene, cabergoline.

[Youthful55guy]

I think the thing with hair loss is also the hormone spikes we get after shots. Maybe it's in my head, but I take E3D too, and the day I take a shot, I feel a burning sensation on my scalp. This is also when I notice hair falling out. While on the last day, just before the shot, it's fine. Perhaps one way to combat this would be to decrease single dose and inject E2D.

Do you think that applying finasteride on hair directly would do much to stop hair loss? Or is taking it orally a requirement?

By the way, can you use the vodka method to dissolve any med? I'm thinking examestene, cabergoline.

I don't know of any research studies on topical finasteride, but there are a number of doctors prescribing compounded topical finasteride for hair loss. That's where I got the idea.

I found an eye dropper method on line that uses crushed finasteride tables(see below), but that's not how I do it. Instead, I purchase finasteride in a 5mg/mL solution from one of the research chemical companies. The same one from where I get my peptides. I mix it with Minoxidil solution using the following procedure:

Instructions for 0.44 mg/mL (apply 2X/day = 0.88 mg/day)
Add 1.75 mL of 5 mg/mL Finasteride to eyedropper bottle (in Polyethylene Glycol)
Add 18.25 mL of Minoxidil 5% solution (alcoholPropylene Glycol/Water)
Results in 20 mL solution at 0.4375 mg/mL
Apply 1 mL 2X per day = ~0.88 mg/day (10 day supply)

Here are the on-line instructions for using the crushed table method as well as the link to the web site that discusses topical finasteride:

Topical finasteride helps reduce the chance of getting side effects. If someone still get unwanted side effects, one can avoid it by reducing the dosage. A big convenience of topical finasteride is that you can easily change the dosage. There is exactly 1 mg of finasteride in every 1 ml of 0.1% topical finasteride solution, which means you receive the same amount of finasteride in Propecia if you use 1.0 mL of 0.1% topical finasteride. If that is still too much for you, you use can 0.5ml (equals to 0.5 mg finasteride ) or even 0.25 ml (equals to 0.25mg finasteride). That can be easily done by measuring up less volume by the dropper that comes with the product. When using finasteride pill, you will need to cut the pill, which is far less convenient.

How to make topical finasteride yourself.
If you want to make your own topical finasteride to save money, you should be able to do that with the right tools and material. No need to be a scientist to do so. The only tool you need is a scale that is accurate to 1mg level. All you need to do is to weigh 60 mg of pure finasteride power and pour it into a bottle of 60 ml minoxidil solution, close the bottle and shake it for 10 minutes.
The real challenge here is not how to make it but how to obtain pour finasteride material. Some people choose to use 5 mg finasteride pills (Proscar). In this case, you will need to pulverize 12 pills and then put the powder into a bottle of 60 ml minoxidil solution. Shake it very hard for 10 minutes. Let the bottle stand still for overnight and pour the clear solution to another bottle for use. The reason why it is recommended to dissolve the powder into a minoxidil solution is that it has right solvent that ensures the good absorption of the topical finasteride. You can't just use pure alcohol as the solvent, because it evaporates too faster and you will end up with flakes of finasteride on your scalp that will never be absorbed.

From <https://www.minoxidilmax.com/topical-finasteride-review-results-side-effects>

[mac34]

I see. I thought you dissolved a tablet in vodka.

In general, are the libido sides related only to estrogen, or is there some other mechanism at play?

[simm]

I'm taking no orals at all and only the trt testosterone dosage. I am hypothyroid but it's never been an issue before.
Also afew hours after my shot my face is on fire.

[Youthful55guy]

I see. I thought you dissolved a tablet in vodka.

In general, are the libido sides related only to estrogen, or is there some other mechanism at play?

No, the sexual side-effects are thought to be related to driving your DHT too low. You know the American way...If a little is good, a lot has to be a lot better. This is not the case with DHT. It is 10X more androgenic than T and is the primary hormone that makes guys feel like guys. If you drive it too low, sexual side-effects are likely. I think secondary to this is that if T does not convert to DHT, the T will go down the only other available pathway, which is conversion to E2, but again I think this is secondary to simply driving DHT too low.

[Youthful55guy]

I'm taking no orals at all and only the trt testosterone dosage. I am hypothyroid but it's never been an issue before.
Also afew hours after my shot my face is on fire.

Not sure what to advise. I never feel such flushing side-effects from T. It's possible that being hypothyroid that your SHBG is low and that would cause a more sudden rush of T into your system. You might want to think about pulling SHBG labs next time and/or treat the hypothyroidism. Keep in mind that thyroid meds will more than likely affect SHBG levels and that may require a T dose adjustment.

[simm]

Youthful55guy thanks for the reply. I'll get my Dr to order labs and specifically shbg.

[Youthful55guy]

Youthful55guy thanks for the reply. I'll get my Dr to order labs and specifically shbg.

I would order a full T panel that includes Total T (worthless in my opinion but docs like it), Free T (the gold standard for adjusting T dose in my opinion), and SHBG. Make sure that the Free T is done using the direct analog/radioimmunoassay (RIA) method and NOT the calculated method using Total + SHBG + albumen.

If your Total T is suspected of being very low (<150 ng/dL) or very high (>1500 ng/dL), then you may want to consider the more sensitive (but more expensive) LC/MS method. However, in my opinion, anyone on a rational dose of TRT should fall within the sensitivity range of the normal RIA method.

I have also found that the 'Bioavailable" T method parallels the direct Free T method and can be used as a substitute. Not all labs offer it. My doc seems to like it and she orders all my tests from a different company than LabCorp (Pacific Diagnostic). So, once a year I get this test run too. Normally, all the labs I purchase on my own come from LabCorp.

Regarding hypothyroidism and SHBG, there is very good data that shows that when you increase T3 or T4 that SHBG will also increase. If you are low on SHBG, this may be good, but if you are normal (or in my case high) for SHBG, adding in thyroid hormones to your protocol may disrupt the balance of free and total T in your body and may require a T dose adjustment. So be careful when playing with thyroid hormones and make sure you also monitor T labs and SHBG.

[simm]

Thanks bro. I'll go through everything you have mentioned with my Dr. My hypothyroidism is controlled by 175mcg levothyroxine daily but I just have a feeling with British DRS that self administration of steroids is an area they don't like to delve into as sometimes the steroids aren't mixed and filtered in a sterile environment.... I'll definitely be putting this information past him though so thankyou!

[mac34]

Youthfulguy thanks for explaining that.

I understand your method here is to stick within range, while most people who take prospecia probably crash DHT completely. But even with that, if some people experience permanent side effects even after stopping the treatment , that is still concerning, even if we consider lower dosages. What do you think about it? Or are these just myths?

I think I would be up to prevent further hair loss. Last time I everywhere I went I just checked other's men head and damn, did some looked pretty bad. Though I would definitely be rather completely bald than have permanent ED.

By the way about that SHBG, I haven't checked it, but I always thought I got big effects for the low doses I took. But I also had unusual E2 levels. Is conversion to DHT and E2 happening from the total T or free T?

[Youthful55guy]

Personally, I don't buy into the post finasteride syndrome. No one that I know of has ever proposed a physiological mechanism by which finasteride can cause permeant alterations to DHT production. Unfortunately I listened to the myth in my early days of TRT and turned down several attempts by my doc to prescribe it. I regret that decision now.

I don't have an answer to your question which drives DHT and E2 production, Free or Total T. I suspect that it's Free T that is converted, but I don't know for sure.

[mac34]

Thanks. I guess I will do some more research and then try it anyway. If I can get it that it. I live in Europe, the country I'm staying at right now, I was at pharmacy today and the lady there told me they only
have proscar 5mg for prostate, and that finasteride isn't approved for hair loss. I wonder how is it in my own country, but then maybe I could get it black market way.

[Youthful55guy]

Thanks. I guess I will do some more research and then try it anyway. If I can get it that it. I live in Europe, the country I'm staying at right now, I was at pharmacy today and the lady there told me they only
have proscar 5mg for prostate, and that finasteride isn't approved for hair loss. I wonder how is it in my own country, but then maybe I could get it black market way.

I actually do use the 5 mg tablets for my oral dosing (but not for the topical dosing). Hope I didn't confuse the discussion by that distinction. For my oral dosing, I dissolve a 5 mg tablet into 2 ml of vodka and dispense a few drops into my drinking water. I've calculated that 1 drop contains about 0.06 mg of finasteride using this method. Therefore, since my current oral dose is 0.5mg, I dispense 8 drops (4 drops Am and 4 drops PM). finasteride has a short half life of 4 to 6 hours, which is why I dose twice per day.

[almostgone]

Personally, I don't buy into the post finasteride syndrome. No one that I know of has ever proposed a physiological mechanism by which finasteride can cause permeant alterations to DHT production. Unfortunately I listened to the myth in my early days of TRT and turned down several attempts by my doc to prescribe it. I regret that decision now.

I don't have an answer to your question which drives DHT and E2 production, Free or Total T. I suspect that it's Free T that is converted, but I don't know for sure.

I swear I thought Morgantaler had something about this on his Harvard blog or I read it @ Wiley library, but can't find it now.



Edit: My bookmarking system is horrid and my memory isn't much better.

[mac34]

That was what I wanted to ask you about earlier. Can you dissolve any med in vodka? Like could I use the same technique to dissolve examestene if I would like to fine tune my E2 levels?

[almostgone]

That was what I wanted to ask you about earlier. Can you dissolve any med in vodka? Like could I use the same technique to dissolve examestene if I would like to fine tune my E2 levels?

I'm not going to say yes, I'll leave that to Y55G.

I can tell you their molecular weights are very close and I have suspended both in PEG300 before. That's about all I can offer.

Edit: Since the dosage of Exemestane is higher than that of anastrozole, you may definitel need some type of excipient such as PEG, looks like Exemestane is only slightly soluble in most alcohols? Just shaking the vodka up may not give a very consistent dosage. Just random thoughts on my part.

[Youthful55guy]

That was what I wanted to ask you about earlier. Can you dissolve any med in vodka? Like could I use the same technique to dissolve examestene if I would like to fine tune my E2 levels?

You need to research the solubility in of the particular drug in various solvents. I happen to know (through research) that finasteride is not very soluble in water, but is moderately soluble in a water/ethanol solution. So, you can do this with finasteride and with anastrozole (highly soluble in polar solvents).

[fiddlesticks]

Personally I think an enormous factor in hair loss is stress. There has to be some correlation between the two, for a ton of people the strong DHT drugs make them feel stressed as fuck (tren ) and that is when hair loss rears its ugly head (lol).

[mac34]

Now I stress everytime I run my hand through my hair, or when I'm washing my hair and see if there aren't any hairs in the water Though recently I feel a little better about it and I'm not willing to settle to be balding/bald.

I don't think I have an issue with E2 now, but I haven't done any bloods and go by feeling. Exemestene is all I have but perhaps I could get anastrozole. Then it would be all about experimenting with E2 levels and see if it improves my libido further. 20mg cyp E2D feels pretty good without AI. I'm not sure what will happen when I add HCG .

About finasteride, I think the tablets would be the best I could get in my area of the world, so would it be possible to dissolve tablets to apply on hair directly?

By the way, huge thanks to all you guys. I'm amazed what I'm learning by just browsing the recent threads on here. It seems like there's so much information that isn't in the stickies/general guides etc.