HGH cutting cycle - comments & advice please guys.

**NotSmall** · 08-08-2004, 10:20 AM

HGH cutting cycle - comments & advice please guys.

I am 6'2", 255lbs, approx 18% bf.
I have been training for 5 yrs (3yrs on juice)
My next cycle is going to be my first dedicated cutting cycle, (I have done 5 mass building cycles but the bf has run away from me a bit)

Proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-15 2ius HGH ed
Weeks 1-2 500mg Test Prop ew
Weeks 1-10 500mg Test Enan ew
Weeks 1-8 228mg Tren ew
Weeks 1-11 300mg Primo ew
Weeks 9-12 50mg Winstrol eod

Weeks 1-15 20mg Nolv ed
Weeks 11-13 500iu HCG ew

T4s, Clen & ECA run at different intervals throughout.

I know that some of you will tell me I need more HGH but I'm 26 so I figure my natural HGH should still be fairly high, plus I've read quite a few threads with guys saying they're getting good results on 2iu a day.

I have heard that HGH can thicken skin, improve skin tone & elasticity - any chance that it may fade stretchmarks? (A long shot I know)

Also I will definitely not be using slin, my source says that I should therefore avoid carbs 1hr either side of injections - does this sound correct?

I was also considering running some EQ but think that may be overkill - too many compounds in one cycle?

Any helpful advice/comments would be greatly appreciated - help me out guys!

**solid snake** · 08-08-2004, 06:05 PM

hi
i cant coment on your cycle as i cant stand any gear exapt gh and primo and i also love a good eca stack

but i use 1 iu a day 6 days a week for 2 to 3 monthes a year
weather i train or not i get great results for both fat loss and muscle gain
if i train i get even beter results both ways im cureently combining eca with gh and getting riped hardcore trust me u got more then enoth gh to cut up

my doc who supervises and has supervised me for like all my life thinks that 2 iu is MORE then enoth for fat burn even good for gains too trust me

also get your diet in check your body fat just doesnt magicly apear obvisly ur doıng somthing wrong so focos on the diet after all its the most important thing for well.......everything

i dont use insulin hate it to death and so does my doc so just get in some good meals and make sure to have some carbs to keep the natral slin coming but if u use low doses like 1.5 iu a day u dont haft to worry too much but still make sure to always stay alert

good luck and if u need any other info just ask

**NotSmall** · 08-08-2004, 11:49 PM

Thanks Solid Snake!

Don't worry my diet is in check now, the bf is slowly peeling off I just want to accelerate the process while protecting my hard earned muscle so GH seems the best choice!

U or your doc got any view on the stretch mark issue? - I know its a long shot I just thought it might be a nice little fringe benefit!

Please go into more detail about carbs - when to ingest etc, is it necessary for me to avoid them 1hr either side of injections as my source says?

I am currently on a fairly low carb diet- approx 300gms protein 150gms carbs a day, should I alter this? I would rather not as its working very well for me at present.

Thanks again Solid!

Now come on you other guys - someone must have an opinion on my accompanying AS stack!

**solid snake** · 08-09-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by NotSmall

Thanks Solid Snake!

Don't worry my diet is in check now, the bf is slowly peeling off I just want to accelerate the process while protecting my hard earned muscle so GH seems the best choice!

U or your doc got any view on the stretch mark issue? - I know its a long shot I just thought it might be a nice little fringe benefit!

Please go into more detail about carbs - when to ingest etc, is it necessary for me to avoid them 1hr either side of injections as my source says?

I am currently on a fairly low carb diet- approx 300gms protein 150gms carbs a day, should I alter this? I would rather not as its working very well for me at present.

Thanks again Solid!

Now come on you other guys - someone must have an opinion on my accompanying AS stack!

hey about the strech marks gh may make them look less obvies becase its improves your skin in everyway possible

as for the carbs my doc sais for a 2 iu diet u should have slow realease carbs throut the day and fruit with every meal to keep ur body working properly

no carbs 4 houres before u sleep but fruits ok

most important thing is to have a balanced diet with all the foods included even vegies look a healthey body thats well fed will fight any of the negative side efects of gh if any at that dose.

look botom line is this bro there is no exact amount of carbs your supose to have just have a small serving of qualaty carbs with every meal and fruit for good sugars both these good carbs and sugars should get the pancress to prduce the little slin u loose with gh so just have six meals a day with both good carbs and sugars remember fruit only no crap sugars like coke and choclate but u already no that

by the way the doc thinks that 1.5 iu a day is a better more safer dose then 2 iu but still 2iu is not that high either bro its up to u

what ever u do dont neglet sugar or carbs to get that extra fatloss trust me the gh alone will do the fatloss and HARDCORE fat loss trust me bro.

**DBarcelo** · 08-09-2004, 12:01 PM

More of that good idvice there.

A dermatologist can help you out with the stretch marks if you really need it. From what I remember, you can only prevent stretch marks, you can't get rid of them, but there are new products comming out every day and unless you're in the field, you normally don't know about them all. The GH should help the marks to some degree but I would imagine not a whole lot.

**NotSmall** · 08-09-2004, 12:54 PM

Thanks for the reply DBarcelo!

Yeah I'm aware they'll never go away, just thought if HGH improves elasticity and stretch marks are caused by a lack of elasticity there may be an improvement, it just seemed logical - it was just a long shot and far from my reason for doing the GH.

On the carb issue my morning schedule is:
MON, WED, FRI
6.30am get up & take ECA
7.00am Breakfast - Protein shake & muesli (45gms prot, 40gms carbs)
7.30am weight train for 1hr
8.30am post training shake (40gms prot, 40gms carbs)

TUES, THURS, SAT
6.30am get up & take ECA
7.00am 40 min run
7.40am post training shake (40gms prot, 40gms carbs)

Is it OK to take the GH at 6.30?

The reason I ask is cos my source says 'No carbs 1hr either side of injections' but I think he may be confusing it with the fact that carbs dull the release of your own GH, they surely can't dull the release of injected GH.

Thanks again, I look forward to your reply.

**cyflex** · 08-09-2004, 01:41 PM

Hi bro. i suggest u to check out/search the diet forum (read the diet sticky)
the most important for a cutter is DIET & CARDIO bro..
U have many wrongs in ur diet. the cycle looks ok.
if u can get T3 & clen is better than e/c/a.
And ur post-trainning shake (after running) make it protein and fat meal (avoid carbs 4 lipolisis tenor) take carbs in meal 2

**NotSmall** · 08-09-2004, 02:02 PM

Thanks for the reply cyflex!

Any other specifics on whats wrong with my diet, it was based on Chris Acetos books and has been working fairly well for me, the bf is slowly coming down - I just want to speed things along a bit, I know AS can't burn fat exactly but can help hold on to muscle as I step up the fat-offensive! During my current cycle (sust, deca & winny - originally intended to be a lean mass builder) I have found that by controlling my diet and running 3 mornings a week I can drop fat at the same time - albeit with slightly reduced gains but I am still gaining!

Oh and as I said up top I am doing T4s & clen as well as ECA. (not all at once!)

Thanks again - any further advice would be greatly appreciated!

**cyflex** · 08-09-2004, 02:49 PM

i don`t know ur diet bro but if working for u it`s fine.
if i were u i`d submit a thread about my diet plan in diet forum to get opinions/suggestions form diet mod`s.

**NotSmall** · 08-09-2004, 03:10 PM

Thanks for replying again cyflex.

I am happy with my diet but always open to suggestions.

I only asked specifically what was wrong with it because you said "U have many wrongs in ur diet" which I did think was odd considering I really haven't posted much about my diet!

The reason I posted the info was to establish, given the schedule I outlined above, if 6.30 was a suitable time for me to inject the GH - can you shed any light on that for me?

Thanks again - keep it comin!

**crazyswoll** · 08-09-2004, 03:57 PM

hey bro, cycle looks ok. I would run the test prop like this:
wk 1-4 500mg/wk
wk 9-12 500mg/wk
Also, dont forget your PCT. I am off cycle now and cutting. Try waiting 3 hours after you do cardio before you eat to that fire burning. I think swolecat wrote a thread on this. It has been working awsome for me.

**NotSmall** · 08-09-2004, 04:21 PM

Hey crazyswoll!

Thanks for the test prop pointers!

I've always used nolva & HCG for PCT as outlined up top, it works for me - why? would you add clomid too?

3hrs!!! Isn't that going to be a bit catabolic? - I'll have to run a search for that swolecat thread.

Thanks again bro, keep the advice coming guys, can anyone confirm if injecting the GH at 6.30 as described above will be OK?

**solid snake** · 08-09-2004, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by DBarcelo

More of that good idvice there.

A dermatologist can help you out with the stretch marks if you really need it. From what I remember, you can only prevent stretch marks, you can't get rid of them, but there are new products comming out every day and unless you're in the field, you normally don't know about them all. The GH should help the marks to some degree but I would imagine not a whole lot.

hey thanks dbarcelo

and yes u cant get rid of streach marks (FACT) only prevent them but a dermatoligest can help make them look less obvies or bad the gh will also help.as for new products they only make the mark less obvies and not so bad but if u look closely enoth itl still be there

hey bro try this ive got some real hardcore strech marks all over my body i find that the best thing is a super hardcore tan trust me in summer my fiance never notices my streach marks it works real good for me give it a try what have u got to loss

**solid snake** · 08-09-2004, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by NotSmall

Thanks for the reply DBarcelo!

Yeah I'm aware they'll never go away, just thought if HGH improves elasticity and stretch marks are caused by a lack of elasticity there may be an improvement, it just seemed logical - it was just a long shot and far from my reason for doing the GH.

On the carb issue my morning schedule is:
MON, WED, FRI
6.30am get up & take ECA
7.00am Breakfast - Protein shake & muesli (45gms prot, 40gms carbs)
7.30am weight train for 1hr
8.30am post training shake (40gms prot, 40gms carbs)

TUES, THURS, SAT
6.30am get up & take ECA
7.00am 40 min run
7.40am post training shake (40gms prot, 40gms carbs)

Is it OK to take the GH at 6.30?

The reason I ask is cos my source says 'No carbs 1hr either side of injections' but I think he may be confusing it with the fact that carbs dull the release of your own GH, they surely can't dull the release of injected GH.

Thanks again, I look forward to your reply.

ok

1.its ok to inject gh at 6 30 am infact its always best to inject as soon as u wake up in the am

2.ok listen good i said this once before il say it again NEVER neglect your good carbs and sugars there eisential for a healthy body and weither its injected or not carbs DO NOT dull the relese of gh there isential to have with injected gh to produce the little bit of slin your body losses when u use gh and just as important good carbs and sugars are very importan for a healthy strong body and i keep on hearing this low carb in all your post bro trust me your doing 3 weight and 3 cardio sessions a week u MUST NOT NEGLECT CARBS or not only will u be to tired to train but theres allways the SLİN mater to remember

trust me bro my doc even sais that the intake of carbs and sugars is VİTAL when using gh not only for the slin and health issue but for making the best gains from the gh.

and for the record im just about to finish my second cycle of gh and i always eat like 5 minutes after i inject carbs and protein

u wana here somthing eles my cycle is 1 iu 6 days a week for 2 to 3 monthes A YEAR and i get both great size and cutting results in about a month NOT 3-6 MONTHS only 1 MONTH.

**solid snake** · 08-09-2004, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by cyflex

Hi bro. i suggest u to check out/search the diet forum (read the diet sticky)
the most important for a cutter is DIET & CARDIO bro..
U have many wrongs in ur diet. the cycle looks ok.
if u can get T3 & clen is better than e/c/a.
And ur post-trainning shake (after running) make it protein and fat meal (avoid carbs 4 lipolisis tenor) take carbs in meal 2

hi cyflex look in my opion all of the fat burners are good providing the user has the knowlege to use it efectifly and safely my personal fav is eca after gh ofcorse

but i asked my doc hes opion on whats the best fat burners rated from top to bottom he said

1.growth hormone / the one and only best thing for mass gains and fat loss
2.e/c/a used in the regular 25/200/80mg combo is a great fat burner
3.L-THYROXIN / used in small dosses is great but the key word is SMALL
4.CLENBUTEROL /again in low doses/on the negative if u use medium to high dosses theres all ways the chance to damage heart tissue.

he said that for series fat loss any of these 4 would be a great choice but ofcorse knowlege and common sense is a must.

hope this helps people out especialy notsmall this is my third staright post hope that it does answer all your quistions and if it doesnt just ask bro

**NotSmall** · 08-09-2004, 11:46 PM

Hi solid snake!

Thanks for the advice - again!

Stretch marks - I always knew there was no getting rid of them, I have spoken to a Dr about them and there is very little a dermatologist can do either. I was just thinking with all the positive effects GH has on skin it may fade them a little, it was only a theory and as I said not my reason for trying GH. I too find tanning hides them pretty well. - I may post a poll on the stretch mark issue just to see if anyone has noticed any improvement.

Diet - Don't worry I'm not on a crazy very low carb diet, I follow the low carb rotational diet as outlined in Chris Aceto's books 'Championship Bodybuilding', 'Understanding Bodybuilding nutrition & Training' and 'Everything You Need To Know About Fat Loss', he knows what he's talking about.(He has trained Jay Cutler, Evander Holyfield, Arnold Swarzenegger....)

Fat burners - I have been getting FANTASTIC results from no.s 2 - 4 in your list over the past 3 months, now its time to try No. 1 with the added benefit of some extra & more permanent muscle gains!

Thanks again for another reply solid, anyone got anything else to add?

**cyflex** · 08-10-2004, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by solid snake

hi cyflex look in my opion all of the fat burners are good providing the user has the knowlege to use it efectifly and safely my personal fav is eca after gh ofcorse

but i asked my doc hes opion on whats the best fat burners rated from top to bottom he said

1.growth hormone / the one and only best thing for mass gains and fat loss
2.e/c/a used in the regular 25/200/80mg combo is a great fat burner
3.L-THYROXIN / used in small dosses is great but the key word is SMALL
4.CLENBUTEROL /again in low doses/on the negative if u use medium to high dosses theres all ways the chance to damage heart tissue.

he said that for series fat loss any of these 4 would be a great choice but ofcorse knowlege and common sense is a must.

hope this helps people out especialy notsmall this is my third staright post hope that it does answer all your quistions and if it doesnt just ask bro

I aggre bro.. but the e/c/a combo i think is like this 25-50e/200c/300a thats
i always used.
clen usage is 2weeks on and 2 weeks off (eca between them) or if u staking some ketotifen 3-4g combo u can go longer whith it.(6 weeks on)
i never use t4(l-thyroxin) coz is metabolize to t3 so i used straight t3 it`s much stronger/effectiviness.
About gh usage i aggre with u.yes, u have to take some carbs for slin spikes. but u have to take them smart (for cutting diet). and 4 a maximum results gh/t3 combo

**NotSmall** · 08-10-2004, 05:59 AM

cyflex - I think ECA blends just vary, mine is 30mg e, 120mg c, 30mg a and 80mg narnegin(whatever that is) I take 4 a day: 2 at 6.30am, 1 at 11.30am and 1 at 4.30pm - keeps me hot sweaty and buzzing all day!

I can only get T4s at present do you feel they're alot less potent? My understanding is that so long as my taurine levels don't drop my liver should convert most of it to T3.

solid snake - I re-read your post above where you state: ...and weither its injected or not carbs DO NOT dull the relese of gh... I know I'm the one seeking advice here but I think you may be mistaken, as high blood sugar levels (caused by ingested carbs) at night will curb the release of natural GH. Its this fact that I think may have confused my source causing him to advise avoiding carbs in close proximity to injected GH.

Can anyone else shed any light on this? einstein?

**solid snake** · 08-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by NotSmall

cyflex - I think ECA blends just vary, mine is 30mg e, 120mg c, 30mg a and 80mg narnegin(whatever that is) I take 4 a day: 2 at 6.30am, 1 at 11.30am and 1 at 4.30pm - keeps me hot sweaty and buzzing all day!

I can only get T4s at present do you feel they're alot less potent? My understanding is that so long as my taurine levels don't drop my liver should convert most of it to T3.

solid snake - I re-read your post above where you state: ...and weither its injected or not carbs DO NOT dull the relese of gh... I know I'm the one seeking advice here but I think you may be mistaken, as high blood sugar levels (caused by ingested carbs) at night will curb the release of natural GH. Its this fact that I think may have confused my source causing him to advise avoiding carbs in close proximity to injected GH.

Can anyone else shed any light on this? einstein?

ok

1.injected gh doesnt get efected by carbs (FACT)

2.lets just presume for a second that high blood suger does dull the release of your natral gh at night when u sleep WHİCH İN NO WAY AM İ SAYİNG İS TRUE but lets just presume this theroy is correct.your not gona go to sleep with high blood sugar are u. your diet should ban carbs and sugars at least 4 hours before sleep i told u this before as a part of your diet.

3.im gona past my doc on to give u some advice hes gona talk and im gona write (hey notsmall look ive been in gh theropy for years and ive given many diets and recomendations to my patients and have had feed back and in my experinace im gona say that high sugar levels at night (MAY İF AT ALL) SLOW down NOT DULL the realease of gh but even if u have a high sugar level during sleep as long as u get at least 9 houres -THATS RİGHT 9 HOURES OF SLEEP NOT 8- the gland will have given u all the gh it set out to realease thruout the night so dont worry about the sugar levels being a problem just like solid snake sais you shouldent have carbs or sugars atleast 4 houres before u sleep so the sugar levels will not be high when u do sleep and by the way u sounded hesatent to quistion solid snake DONT BE ALWAYS ASK QUİSTİONS TOO GET ALL THE ANSWERS VERY İMPORTANT good luck notsmall ill pass solid snake back on).

SOLİD SNAKE:well there u go either way weather its true or not as long as u keep your diet in check the sugar levels wont be high enoth to mess with your gh release oh yeah dont forget SLEEP İS İMORTANT

all the best not small and like my docter sais allways quistion people giving u advice thats the best way to confirm and to learne the information

good luck notsmall

all the best

**NotSmall** · 08-10-2004, 04:22 PM

solid snake - Thanks again for your feedback.

I do appreciate the HGH advice bro so don't take this the wrong way, but just because I am in the learning stages on the subject of GH does not mean I'm entirely without any training knowledge - obviously sleep is important and obviously if I'm trying to lower bf I'm not eating carbs later in the day.

I just wanted to confirm whether what my source (who incidently has trained numerous well known pro bodybuilders) said about ingesting carbs too close to GH shots was relevant, it would seem not - fair enough.

As far as blood sugar at night affecting natural GH release, that came from Chris Aceto who has trained & advised Jay Cutler, Evander Holyfield, Arnold Swarzeneggar... but anyway - I only referenced that in my previous post to illustrate a possible reason for my source thinking that carbs could affect injected GH. Do you see what I mean? I didn't mean that because carbs affect natural GH they must affect injected GH as well, I merely meant that I thought that could have been the origin of the misconception.

Thanks again though - I always appreciate the feedback!

**DBarcelo** · 08-10-2004, 10:26 PM

The only reason I can think that a person would want to avoid carbs and GH is because of the infrequent side effect of causing a case of mild hyperglycemia. If you're one of the very few people that get hyperglycemia after injecting GH and you ingest a high carb food or beverage around the same time, it could turn into a severe case of hyperglycemia. Outside of that, I don't know what to tell you.

**NotSmall** · 08-11-2004, 12:26 AM

DBarcelo - Thanks for the reply bro!

Ahh, so you think if anything it is a blood sugar related health issue as opposed to a GH performance issue. And from my research would I be right in saying that the risk of me going hyperglycemic on 2iu a day is pretty remote?

Again, thanks - I like to understand these things rather than just dismiss what my guy has told me as he has always given me sound advice in the past. What you have said makes sense as he definitely likes to err on the side of caution, as do I.

**DBarcelo** · 08-11-2004, 12:44 AM

Yes, hyperglycemia is pretty remote of an adverse reaction.

**DBarcelo** · 08-11-2004, 12:51 AM

I would think his concern is more about the blood sugar level than any concern with the GH being metabolized. I don't know what his concern is and the only way to be sure is to just ask him why he suggested it. The only thing that makes sense to me is the hyperglycemia issue, but it could be something with the release of insulin and GH uptake that he's refering to, but insulin is believed to aid in the uptake of GH not hinder it, so that doesn't make sense to me. There is also the issue of GH being sent to the liver and Growth Factors are then produced from the GH, maybe he thinks that too much blood sugar will inhibit the liver's ability to create the Growth Factors. But that doesn't really make much sense either (I'm not going to get into the biology of that right now).

**NotSmall** · 08-11-2004, 01:07 AM

DBarcelo - Thanks buddy - you are really starting to put my mind at rest. I will ask him next time I speak to him, trouble is he's a very busy guy so I don't like to contact him everytime I have a question (which is quite frequently) so I thought I would tap into the wealth of knowledge and experience on this site.

Thanks again bro!

**SOHO** · 08-11-2004, 04:52 AM

Could you clarify one point for me. I travel abroard a week every month and I don't like the thought of carrying my HGH with me through the airports etc. What negitive results will I see if I take my HGH ed for three weeks and then off for 5 days.

I would really appreciate your thoughts here.

**NotSmall** · 08-11-2004, 05:24 AM

SOHO - You might want to start your own thread on that one bro - you'll probably get a better response.

**DBarcelo** · 08-11-2004, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by SOHO

Could you clarify one point for me. I travel abroard a week every month and I don't like the thought of carrying my HGH with me through the airports etc. What negitive results will I see if I take my HGH ed for three weeks and then off for 5 days.

I would really appreciate your thoughts here.

It's not a problem to take 5 days off. One thing you could do is to mail yourself a vial on the day you leave, so it's there a couple days after you get there. You can ask around about mailing stuff like that. I know customs tends to check certain things and they tend to ignore other things. Some methods of shipping are better than others also (UPS, FedEx, USmail, etc). But taking five days off isn't going to set you back much. It may even be a good idea to take a week off every month anyway, especially if you are dealing with high doses.