Guys! I don't feel so well! Please help.

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 07:17 AM

I'm currently on this stack. Cyp at 600mgs per week, Tren at 100mgs per day, and Winny at 50mgs with Proviron at 50mg per day. I'm also using 4ius of GH per day. I'm on GH HRT. Doc has prescribed me to take 2ius at night time. Just want to throw that in just in case someone tells me the usual..."don't take gh before bed...blah, blah, blah".

I wake up at 4:30am and I'm at the gym at 5am and out by 6am. What I do is that I take 2ius of GH at 4:30am and then down a Protein/carb shake. The shake has 100grams of Maltodextrin btw. And halfway through my workout, I start to feel sluggish and somewhat sleepy. Dont' get me wrong...I'm **** stronger than ever. But the energy goes away **** quick!

When I get out of the gym, I down a dextrose shake with 100grams of carbs. I start to feel better but not **** great neither. I have a blood glucose meter btw. I just took a reading of my blood glucose at around 8am and it was at 75! Is that too low of a blood glucose reading? I'm sure it is!
I guess this explains why I'm feeling a little sluggish and sleepy.

But why would it show that low? Especially if downing 100grams of dextrose? And downing 100grams of maltodextrin just a couple of hours prior to that! Is it the GH that is doing that to me?

I do plan on using insulin with T3 very soon. But I only want to use the slin for postworkout. At maybe 4-6ius...thats it! So what is causing this low blood sugar? The GH????

Do you bros think that maybe I should take the GH and slin at the same time postworkout? And maybe another 2ius of GH with a little bit of slin somewhere in the middle of the day? And possibly another 2ius of GH before bed? But of course with no slin!

How about taking GH and a little bit of slin right when I wake up? Somebody....anybody please help me. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

**bluethunder** · 12-15-2004, 07:28 AM

I do not beleive 4iu's hgh can affect it that much, so if anything I would say it has something to do with timing. Your body uses that first carb drink immediatley since you just woke up. Have you checked your bg during the dayand are they better? Perhaps you developed some insulin sensitivity issue but then again that probably would raise it. Bump for more knowledegble folks. Just a thought.

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by bluethunder

I do not beleive 4iu's hgh can affect it that much, so if anything I would say it has something to do with timing. Your body uses that first carb drink immediatley since you just woke up. Have you checked your bg during the dayand are they better? Perhaps you developed some insulin sensitivity issue but then again that probably would raise it. Bump for more knowledegble folks. Just a thought.

Well..all I can tell you is that with with my daily dose of 2ius per day, my IGF-1 levels come out to 440. And the range is between 180-490. What I'm starting to think is that maybe taking the GH in the morning prior to my workout is not a good idea.

***JohnnyB*** · 12-15-2004, 12:10 PM

200g of carb with-in 2 hours is a lot of carbs

JohnnyB

**marlin444** · 12-15-2004, 12:21 PM

first off hgh can give you hypoglycemia. the HGH your taking is probibly Nutropin aq, or some other american brand name hgh. ALOT more potent than the chinese crap im taking. but as johnnyb said, 200grams of carbs in 2 hours IS a ****load. i feel sluggish if i take 100grams of Maltodextrin before my workout. try this maybe: have a full meal before working out without any simple sugars, or as little as possible, then workout an hour or so later after most of it has been digested. Then crush the 100grams of dex after your workout. this should cause an insulin spike. go for low glycemic foods before, and high after. that way you get the insulin spike. i know the exact feeling your describing though. getting big takes balls. suck it up and before you know it, youll forget this whole incident. ever remember your first protien shake? or the first time you took 15 grams of creatine? or the first Prop injection?

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by RedBaron

The problem with maltodextrin and dextrose is they are both absorbed very rapidly. This is great for recovery and avoiding hypo due to slin use, but for workout purposes it can cause the very condition you describe. I think what is happening is you are getting a real sugar boost from your morning shake and then your levels are crashing before you finish.

What I do in the mornings is have some slower burning carbs (steel cut oatmeal, even non-fat yogurt if you aren't cutting) with a combo of real food (egg whites) and liquid protein. That way I get a good steady burn and have energy for the workout. If I took only a shake in the morning, I would probably crash too....In fact I have done that very thing on a couple of occasions. I took a GH injection a couple of hours before workout and was running only on a shake due to time constraints.....I broke out in sweats and shakes .... had to cut my workout short. Felt like I completely ran out of gas. So at any rate, I think changing up breakfast may solve your problem.

Best of luck to you.
RedBaron

I'm glad you responded. Seems like you always got good things to say. But understand that I do not have time to eat. I'm up at 4:30am, down the shake, take the 2ius of GH. I then get dressed and drive to the gym. I start to lift at around 5:15. By 6am ( 45 minutes later ), I start to feel a little weaker. But I do not get the shakes or that hypo feeling! Trust me I do not! By 6:15am I'm out of the gym and then drink my dextrose shake in the car.

Then again....I do go to bed at 10pm. And I probably do not knock out until say 10:30pm. And then to wake up at 4:30am!!!! I know your probably going to say that I should go to bed earlier. But come on! I don't get out of work until 7pm. And it takes me about 30minutes to get home. When I get home, I do want to spend some time with the kids, wife and I do have some things to do myself you know!

So how should I take the GH then? Do you think that the GH is the one doing it? Maybe i should take a little slin..say 2ius with the 2ius of GH with my 1st shake? And then take 4-6ius of slin for post workout?

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by marlin444

first off hgh can give you hypoglycemia. the HGH your taking is probibly Nutropin aq, or some other american brand name hgh. ALOT more potent than the chinese crap im taking. but as johnnyb said, 200grams of carbs in 2 hours IS a ****load. i feel sluggish if i take 100grams of Maltodextrin before my workout. try this maybe: have a full meal before working out without any simple sugars, or as little as possible, then workout an hour or so later after most of it has been digested. Then crush the 100grams of dex after your workout. this should cause an insulin spike. go for low glycemic foods before, and high after. that way you get the insulin spike. i know the exact feeling your describing though. getting big takes balls. suck it up and before you know it, youll forget this whole incident. ever remember your first protien shake? or the first time you took 15 grams of creatine? or the first Prop injection?

I do not have time to eat. Look at my schedule. I'm up at 4:30am. Hit the gym at 5am. I'm out by 6:15am. And have to be at work before 7am. NO!!!!! I cannot go to the gym at night time!

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by RedBaron

I can understand your schedule ... mine gets pretty hectic juggling work, wife, and kids too. While in a perfect world it would be great to change it up, in the real world it just isn't going to happen.

At any rate, your situation is pretty tough. Your body has been fasting all night, so your glycogen stores are pretty much zip and you need some energy for the early morning workout....so you do need some carbs in your system. The flip side to that is you need to slow down the absorption of these carbs just a little bit to keep from getting a big energy boost followed by a big drop in energy. I am trying to think of things that you could add to your shake to accomplish this without having detrimental effects.

Normally we would say add some fat to your protein ... that would slow the absorption down by quite a bit, but I don't think you would have enough time to get the energy for workout soon enough.

The only thing that comes to mind right off the bat is possibly adding some oatmeal to your morning shake .... I haven't personally done this but know some bros that do. If it tastes/works okay, that should slow up the carb absorption by a little bit.

I will kick this around some more and see what else I can come up with. Some of the other bros probably have some ideas along these lines they can share too.

Best of luck.
RedBaron

Actually, I put 10grams of MCT into my shakes. That is FAT! I don't know if it helps. But that stuff makes he sweat! And gives me a bit of heartburn...but its cool. I can deal with it. I use whey powder and 1 cup of oatmeal and blend it up and drink it. But I do this on cutting cycles. And I feel fine at the gym. But then again...during cutting cycles, I'm also on various fat burners like clen and ecy stack. But of course all rotated every few weeks.

**big4nuthin** · 12-15-2004, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by Carth

I do not have time to eat. Look at my schedule. I'm up at 4:30am. Hit the gym at 5am. I'm out by 6:15am. And have to be at work before 7am. NO!!!!! I cannot go to the gym at night time!

dude chill out. Jeez, sucks to be you then. Quit the gh if you are having that much of a problem or get up 10 min. earlier to eat the oatmeal and yougurt you could have had your wife prep the night before. Good bro's offering you good advice, stop whining and start listening.

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by big4nuthin

dude chill out. Jeez, sucks to be you then. Quit the gh if you are having that much of a problem or get up 10 min. earlier to eat the oatmeal and yougurt you could have had your wife prep the night before. Good bro's offering you good advice, stop whining and start listening.

WTF?! Whatever dude. Just so you know...wife is my trainer.

**Steve Johnson** · 12-15-2004, 04:16 PM

i agree with RedBaron....definitely put some oats in your shake.... all i do is take 1 cup of oats and grind them up in a coffe grinder... this is roughly 50 grams of slow-burning carbs....if you need some quick energy put maybe 50 grams of malto in there as well.... trust me you wont even taste it. But i also hear what the other guys have to say, if you separate your eggwhites in separate container in the pm, on cook your oats in the microwave breakfast will be done in 5 minutes top.... your decision.... try the shake though i think will do it for u

**Carth** · 12-15-2004, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Steve Johnson

i agree with RedBaron....definitely put some oats in your shake.... all i do is take 1 cup of oats and grind them up in a coffe grinder... this is roughly 50 grams of slow-burning carbs....if you need some quick energy put maybe 50 grams of malto in there as well.... trust me you wont even taste it. But i also hear what the other guys have to say, if you separate your eggwhites in separate container in the pm, on cook your oats in the microwave breakfast will be done in 5 minutes top.... your decision.... try the shake though i think will do it for u

I have done this many times! This is what I drink in the morning while on a cutting cycle. I put 1cup of Quaker Oats and 50 grams of whey into a blender, add some water and then drink that son of a bitch! What you are saying is nothing NEW to me.

But when I have this oatmeal shake, I noticed that I do not get that pumped up feeling AT 5 FRIGGIN AM IN THE GOD**** MORNING!!!!!! That is why I have to take stimulants during my cutting cycle to help with this. But since I'm NOT on a cutting cycle...then i'm NOT going to use any stims for now!