I need this cleared up once and for all!!!!

[Carth]

Humalog insulin, is it to be injected IM or SubQ? I've been reading that IM works better because it kicks in faster. But how the hell does that make sense? If you inject IM...won't the Slin just sit there with the muscle until it enters the body VERY slowly?

I'm thinking SubQ, it will go through the whole body quite fast. Nothing is holding it down like muscle. Am I right or wrong? I read the instructions that came with my Humalog and it doesn't say ANYTHING about IM shots. All it talks about is SubQ shots.

As a matter of fact, just last week I injected 2ius of Slin Subq and monitored my blood. Low and behold that 2ius was doing its job! My bloodglucose was dropping little by little.

Now this week I decided to do IM and my bloodglucose isn't dropping at all! And I mean NOTHING!!!! I decided to call a representative at Lily (maker of humalog) and I asked them about IM vs. SubQ. The guy told me that you can do either but that SubQ will make the slin kick in faster. He too said that muscle will just hold that **** down for a while. And this will defeat the whole purpose of me taking a FAST ACTING insulin.

What do you guys think? I'm only asking this because I read a lot on this board that IM works best. If it really does...well...then for me it doesn't do jack! And the representative himself said that it is not recommended.

[Gear]

Insulin can be taken either Sub-Q or IM, either way it will work fine. When you inject Insulin IM, it does not sit in the muscle, it spreads. The process that your body goes through for the Insulin to start doing its job simply becomes faster if you inject IM.

If you take Insulin IM, the muscle that you injected in will not hold it down. As soon as you inject, it spreads. And as for the instructions on your Humalog box, diebetics are not supposed to take Insulin IM, they are supposed to take it Sub-Q. As a matter of fact, no one is supposed to take Insulin IM, but via research, studies have shown that IM injections take effect a lot faster, and also make the Insulin active period shorter. So this now becomes very beneficial for BB purposes. And that is excatly why BB's take Insulin IM, and the diebetics stick with Sub-Q. IM injections are only beneficial for BB purposes. Diebetcis have no reason to take Insulin IM, BB's do.

At 2IU, you wont really relise much difference in BG levels, and you are also more than likely not to feel hypoglycemia symptoms. But everyone is different, and everyone reacts differently, so even at 2IU, you should still have the right amount of nutrients to keep you out of hypo, and also have some glucose tabs on hand too.

As for calling the guy from Elly Lilly, well, to me, it sounds like he doesn't know what he is talking about. Insulin will take effect quiker when taken IM. As a matter of fact, it really sounds like he has no clue at all especially after the "muscle will just hold that **** down for a while" comment, because that is not true at all. Afterall, he probably does't know much about BB. But anyway, I don't know why your BG levels did not drop after your Insulin shot. But like I said, generally speaking, at 2IU, your BG levels shouldn't change too much, so maybe that's why your BG levels didn't drop. Also, your BG levels could depend on a lot of things like, the amount of carbs you had before training, during training and after traning. It can also depend on how active you were. All this depends on how much your BG levels will drop.

IMO, IM is the best way to take Insulin. Professional studies show that Insulin will take effect faster if taken IM. These studies were taken by qualafied professionals. So would you rather trust someone that is highly qualified, or someone that sits in the office and answers telephone calls from customers? I know who I would believe. The guy that you spoke to from Elly Lilly is probably a highschool drop-out that sits at the reception answering ph calls all day, and eating donuts. What would he know? You need to take advice from a qualafied professional. I hope this has cleared up a few things for you.

-Gear

[bluethunder]

Good info Gear..

[DEVLDOG]

besides it acting quicker,the absorbtion rate is higher...i seen a chart somewhere and am to lazy to look for it right nowbut it is something like this

sub-q 85%
IM 90%
IV 98%

dont quote me on that,i know the % are not exact but you get the idea

[Gear]

besides it acting quicker,the absorbtion rate is higher...i seen a chart somewhere and am to lazy to look for it right nowbut it is something like this

sub-q 85%
IM 90%
IV 98%

dont quote me on that,i know the % are not exact but you get the idea

Well, looks like I am not the only lazy one on here. I was actually thinking about the same chart as you. I think it was written by a mod, Im unsure, but I have seen it here in this forum somewhere, but am too lazy to look for it. If I find it, I will post it up.

-Gear

[DEVLDOG]

good to hear im not imagining things in my head anymore

[Carth]

Gear, I will take your advice any day over a donut eating high school drop out. But then what happened today? I took 4ius right into my delt, downed 100grams of Dextrose and 60grams of whey. I got home and my stupid ass actually took a 2 hour nap! I know, I know...stupid. I should not do that after I take slin. But when I woke up and took my BG reading, it said it was 87.

See now last week, I took 2ius of slin subQ. I then downed my shake. 3 hours later I ate a meal. And within 1 hour after that meal I went HYPO! I took my BG and it said it was 56! I wonder why that happened? It didn't make any sense at all.

So where is the best place to take my 4ius of slin? Into my delt? Bi? Pec? Next week I will increase it to 6ius to see how I feel.

[Gear]

Gear, I will take your advice any day over a donut eating high school drop out. But then what happened today? I took 4ius right into my delt, downed 100grams of Dextrose and 60grams of whey. I got home and my stupid ass actually took a 2 hour nap! I know, I know...stupid. I should not do that after I take slin. But when I woke up and took my BG reading, it said it was 87.

See now last week, I took 2ius of slin subQ. I then downed my shake. 3 hours later I ate a meal. And within 1 hour after that meal I went HYPO! I took my BG and it said it was 56! I wonder why that happened? It didn't make any sense at all.

So where is the best place to take my 4ius of slin? Into my delt? Bi? Pec? Next week I will increase it to 6ius to see how I feel.

Carth, when using Insulin, you are supposed to have 10g of carbs for every 1IU of Insulin. So for example, if you have 6IU, you would intake 60g of dextrose, if you had 8IU you would intake 80g of dextrose. You had 4IU but took a 100g of dextrose. That is a bit too much dex for the amount of Insulin. If you are taking 4IU, then you need to take 40g of dex. Just thought I might clear that up for you. So the reason why you didn't feel hypo most probably had something to do with the amount of carbohydrates you had in your body. And in your case, you had more than enough to keep you out of hypoglycemia. You could also up your protein intake too, around 75g is fine. As for sleeping, well yeah it happens. I have almost fell asleep too a few times. One of Insulin's side effects is sleepeness, so be carefull, and make sure to stay awake while Insulin is active.

You said that you had 2IU, had your shake, then 3hrs later had your meal. You should have your meal about 1.25hrs after your shake. Then about 2hrs after that, have another meal. The reason why meals are so close together when one is taking Insulin is so our body has enough nutrients to keep us out of hypo. Also because Insulin is very diet dependant and will alow your muscle cells to suck in a lot more nutrients than usual. So we must take advantage of this by having at least a few meals within the whole Insulin duration period.

Like someone mentioned on this board recently, when it comes to BG levels, everyone is different. You might feel hypo at 56, I might not. I have seen people take Insulin and allow their BG levels to drop so much and still no hypo symptoms. But in the other hand, I have also seen people's BG levels drop not as much, and they felt hypo symptoms. So everyone is different.

Keep in mind that if you are not getting side effects such as hypo symptoms, it does not necessaraly mean Insulin is not doing what its supposed to do. It's still probably working for you, but without the sides. Remember, side effects don't have to happend. That is why they are called side effects. You can still get results without it. If I was you, I would follow how I feel. If you think Sub-Q shots is better for you then stick with that. Because like I said, everyone is different.

Best place to inject Insulin IM is your bicept. It's the easiest. Be carefull with upping your dose, up it by only 1IU every workout. 1IU extra can really make a big difference. But like I said Carth, just because you are not getting the side effects, it does not mean Insulin is not working for you. Side effects do not have to occur. Side effect may or may not occur, but either way can still allow a person to get great results from whatever they may be taking. Hope all goes well for you.

-Gear

[Carth]

Thanks Gear! I appreciate it! So for the slin...you say I should avoid hitting the delt? And instead go for bicep shot? Why is that?

[Mr. Sparkle]

A little faster obsorbtion

[angelxterminator]

Thanks Gear! I appreciate it! So for the slin...you say I should avoid hitting the delt? And instead go for bicep shot? Why is that?

I always hit the muscles worked. Not that insulin has any site growth effects, it just keeps a good even rotation going. I also use igf and gh currently, so i take those bi-lateral PWO as well (plus my morn gh shot)

[dutchman718]

is gh detectable angelx?

[Gear]

Thanks Gear! I appreciate it! So for the slin...you say I should avoid hitting the delt? And instead go for bicep shot? Why is that?

When using Insulin and doing IM injections, the best spot to inject is anywhere where there is thin skin. This way you know most of the needle will actually be in the muscle and not the skin itself or the fat. So therefore, my pref site is the bicept.

-Gear

[Kevan]

I have to ask you guys what kind of monitor you are using??? 87 and 56??? or is this suppose to be 8.7 and 5.6 as my monitor the normal readings are about 5.0 Just checking to see if i'm missing something here

[Mr. Sparkle]

Im using the one touch ultra... it measures in mg/dl that is why the number is high.

[longhornDr]

Insulin is absorbed faster when injected IM because the blood flow is much higher than sub-q, fat has an extremely low blood flow relative to muscle.

You may have experienced the Somogyi effect when you took the nap after shooting IM, which is a rebound hyperglycemia following an insulin induced hypoglycemia during sleep.