Basic insulin overview by RedBaron

[Mr. Sparkle]

As far as I know this has not been posted here... but if it has, here it is again
I can not take credit for this, this is a post made by RedBaron. I felt that it is a good thing to have over here...
RB if you mind me posting this let me know...

If you are a seasoned insulin user, this post is going to be WAY too basic to be of value to you. The purpose of this post is to answer the very basic questions for those completely unfamiliar with insulin and its use in the body and for bodybuilding purposes. -RedBaron

There are a lot of post about insulin and how it is used for bodybuilding purposes. But more basic than this, I am frequently asked....what exactly is insulin and what is it really doing for my body. Here is just a REALLY basic overview of what insulin is in the most basic of terms.

What is Insulin for?
Your body's main source of fuel is a form of sugar called glucose. It gives us energy. After we eat, glucose enters the bloodstream and signals a gland near the stomach, the pancreas, to make insulin.

Insulin is a chemical that helps cells in your body use glucose. As cells use glucose for energy, the level of glucose in the bloodstream drops. If there is no insulin or the insulin isn't doing its job too much glucose builds up in the bloodstream. This is the condition you find when you have diabetes.

Basic Types of Insulin
There are many different types of prescription insulin. Some are designed to work right away and don't last very long. Other types act more slowly over longer periods of time. Doctors routinely prescribe the type of insulin that matches your body's needs for diabetics. This is why you see so many different brands and types on the market. Depending on the symptoms and condition of the diabetic, the insulin type is tailored to their needs.

Bodybuilding use of Insulin
Now let's cut forward to all of us that are NOT diabetic. Our reason for using insulin is to use its inherent shuttling abilitiy to shuttle nutrients to the muscles. For our purpose we are not trying to achieve long term control of glucose buildup in the bloodstream. We are trying to transport supraphysiological amounts of protein and sugars to the muscles for fuel, repair, and growth. For our purposes, we want to use a quick acting, short lasting insulin.

As we learned above, insulin's purpose is to pull glucose out of the bloodstream and ship it out ... helping cells use it. The problem with this is the brain has a really, really small limited range of blood sugar levels that it will function within. If we put too much sugar into our system uncontrolled by insulin, we check out for good. If we have too much insulin and our blood sugar drops too low, same result....we check out. This is the danger that is inherent in manipulating insulin for our bodybuilding purposes. This is also why the timing of carbs immediately after insulin injections is critical.

What, When, and How?
For the purpose of bodybuilding, we want to use a short acting insulin (such as Humalog, or if not available next best Humulin-R). The dose required will end up being between 4-10 IU's. The most advantageous time to use this is immediately post workout, when our muscles are screaming out for nutrients and are in a catabolic state. We use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject sub-q if desired. When starting out using insulin, begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your desired maximum.

Immediately following your injection, you will want to do the following religiously:
injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose
Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey protein in water
Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog sub-q, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.

Things to Watch for

Insulin's most commons side effect is HYPOGLYCEMIA(low blood glucose). It is important that you know the signs of hypoglycemia they may occur quickly!
They are:
- Shakiness
- Anxiety
- Fast heart beat
- Hunger
- Sweating
- Blurred vision
- Dizziness
- Weakness
- Headache
- Irritability

If any of these symptoms occur, you should eat some form of quick acting sugar to prevent the symptoms from getting worse (e.g., two or three glucose tablets, one tube of glucose gel, one-half cup of fruit juice or regular soft drink, one tablespoon of honey, or one tablespoon of sugar dissolved in water)

Always have something like the above on hand when using insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast, and you will have a very small window of time to react. Be ready!!

Well, hopefully you now have a basic understanding of insulin. There are many other in-depth articles and studies available that I would encourage you to read and study, especially before venturing into insulin use. While it is extremely useful for bodybuilding, it is also dangerous enough to not be taken lightly.....know what you are doing and have a plan BEFORE you begin to consider using insulin. As in anything we do, research, research, research!!! Hopefully this post will whet your appetite to look into insulin.....used properly it is definitely one of modern bodybuilding's great tools.

[youknowme]

Love theese educational posts.
Thanx!

[bignatt]

i beleive i posted that .......some where

[Mr. Sparkle]

i beleive i posted that .......some where

really?

[bignatt]

ya but i could be wrong im gonna look

[Mr. Sparkle]

I just took a look, they are simular... not the same though... toss yours in here.... wouldnt hurt to have somemore simple reads...

[bignatt]

haha ya your right haha my mistake

[bignatt]

This is pretty much a beginners guide to getting started on insulin .

Directions for first time insulin users

This is an article I wrote a little while ago and posted on several boards. I know its a long post but take the time and read it because your life does in fact depend on it. There are a couple other articles on the Anabolic Review board in the Hot Topics Section but I think they all pretty much have the same info.

Let me know if you have any questions

Insulin is the most anabolic you can take. On the other hand its also one of the most dangerous for two reasons availability and ignorance. I will be the first to tell you that every time I have been hypoglycemic (when blood sugar drops to dangerous levels) its has been as a result of something I did wrong. Used responsibility and with respect for the potential sides it is quite safe and extremely effective. That being said we'll start off with what you are going to need.

Equipment:
There are several types of insulin out there but for our purposes we are only interested in two. The first being my favorite Humulin R and the other being a bit newer to the body building community Humalog.

Humulin R is the most widely used and time tested insulin in our arsenal. It has a max duration of 4hrs and its peak can been seen around 2hrs after injection. This becomes particularly important when planning out you meals for the day so keep the timetables in mind.

Humalog is a bit newer but some feel just as effective and a bit safer. Humalog has a max duration of 2hrs and its peak can be seen around 1hr after injection. When selecting to use one or the other keep in mind your schedule, meals, and physical activity for the day as it will all play a role. One other point that needs mentioning is that Humulin R is available over the counter at pretty much every pharmacy in the country for about $25 for 10ml (which will last you a very long time) and Humalog is available only through a prescription or over the black market for a price about double that of Humulin R. When approaching a pharmacist keep in mind that its a lot more convincing if you buy the needles at the same time you get the insulin. This way they are less likely to refuse to sell it to you which they have been known to do from time to time. If this should happen just continue on to the next pharmacy and despite what they tell you "you dont need a prescription" it might be their store policy to see one but legally it is not required and if you make enough of a fuss you will get what you need.

The next thing you will need is the actual needles for injection. These are not the same type that you would use for anabolics or other androgens. The type of needles you will need are U100 insulin needles. That is exactly what you need to say when are trying to buy them. A box of 100 will usually run about $15-$25 and again will last you quite a while.

NOTE: Be fore warned now, using a syringe labeled with cc/ml or anything other than u100 is potentially fatal. The difference between the amount of insulin used for our purpose and that which will kill you is less than 1/2 a cc.

The next two things I think you will need and I highly recommend having on you is a wrist watch with a chronograph (stopwatch) and glucose tabs and/or a can of soda. First I'll explain the wrist watch. The stop watch is to be started immediately after the injection and monitored periodically to keep track of what is in your body and how long it is active. This can also be used to determine whether or not you are feeling side effects or simply just nerves from the fear that follows using for the first time. For instance I always use Humulin R which we know has a duration of 4 hours and a peak at 2 hours. This means that the greatest effects will be felt somewhere between 1-1/2 to 2 hours after injection and then they will steadily lessen till it is no longer active 4 hours after injection. When you use a stopwatch you have an accurate record of when you felt the effects which will become more important as you get more experienced using insulin. The glucose tabs are your safety net. If you are feeling hypo (hypoglycemic) these tabs will return your blood sugar levels to a safe range where you can get some food. They are available at all pharmacies for about $1.00. I have also used a soda. Soda is high in simple carbs which act quickly when blood sugar is low and allow you to get to a safe range where you can get some food in you. Now that we've covered all the equipment needed to safely use insulin we'll move on to dosage diet and scheduling.



Dosage diet and scheduling:
Whenever you start insulin its always wise to start at a lower dose and taper up over the first couple of days of use. Insulin is still new in our community and there is a potential for becoming diabetic so don't take chances start small more is not better where insulin is concerned more is simply more fat and more dangerous. This is a schedule I use when just starting insulin:

day1: 5iu's post workout
day2: 6iu's post workout
day3: 7iu's post workout
day4: 8iu's post workout
day5: 9iu's post workout
day6: 10iu's post workout
day7: same as day 6

This concludes week once from here on out this is how I proceed. If I am going to be increasing my dose even further.

day8-10: 10iu's morning, 10iu's post workout
day11-14: 10iu's morning, 10iu's noon, 10iu's post workout
day15 and on: increase post workout dose till I start to feel symptoms of hypoglycemia and then back the dose down accordingly. NOTE: THIS IS ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS, DON'T EXCEED THE DAY 7 DOSE TILL YOU GET SOME TIME UNDER YOUR BELT. I AM NOT KIDDING YOU WILL DIE!!!

Your diet will depend on the amount of slin you take per injection. The rule is 10 grams of carbs per IU of insulin. Therefore if you take 10iu's at an injection you need 100 grams of carbs. This is a bit overkill the actual figure is about 5-7 grams but its best to stick with the 10 rule while starting out. I feel that the best most accurate way to consume the proper amount of carbs after an injection is through MRP's or other shakes. The amounts of carbs on these are far more accurate than those you will find on the back of a bread bag. My meals are usually layed out like this:

7am: 10iu's insulin, shake
9am: shake
12pm: 10iu's insulin, lunch
2pm: shake
4pm: shake
6pm: workout
7pm: 10iu's insulin, shake, higher in carbs than others
9pm: dinner
11pm: safe for bed

If you'll notice there is a method to the madness above. After taking your first injection if insulin you will need a shake immediately. After this you are good for the next 2 hrs till the insulin peaks. Once you hit the 2hr mark you will need more carbs either another shake or a meal with sufficient carbs. After you have cleared the 4hr mark you will be clear from danger. Now this is all based on using Humulin R. If you are using Humalog you will need to take your first meal after injection and another "1hr" after. Then after the 2hr mark you will be safe. My shakes are made up of 1/2 pack of MetRX (berry) and 2 scoops GNC brand weight gainer (vanilla) and 16oz of whole milk. This shake has a caloric value of about 800 cals and around 50grams of protein and 150+grams of carbs. This is a good meal for those starting out. As you progress though you will want to decrease the carbs and eliminate the fat completely to maximize lean mass gains and minimize water and fat retention but for the purposes of starting out simply taking T3 will offset any fat gained. One thing to keep in mind is that T3 will reduce your sensitivity to insulin allowing you to take a higher dose but again save this till you get some more time in.

Side effects and procedures:
After injection and starting your stopwatch your first task is to get some carbs in. Next the first sides you will feel is tired. This is normal and is to be expected. You will usually feel this somewhere between 15-30 minutes after your injection. The key here is not to sleep, if you sleep you wont feel further more dangerous sides and therefore you wont be able to save your ass. The next thing you need to do is have another meal/shake at the 2hr mark. If you miss this just get it in as soon as possible. If you delay long enough you will start to feel hypo around 3 to 3-1/2 hours after injection. When this happens you will feel a sort of numbness that I can only relate to ephedrine. After this you will start to get some shakes in your hands followed by a cold sweat. Once you get to this point you are full blown hypo, the next thing that will follow will be a bit of tunnel vision and this is as far as I’ve been after this its all textbook I imagine coma will follow shortly after passing out. When you get the symptoms listed above don’t hesitate. Get some soda/glucose tabs followed by a meal or shake. One other fact I neglected to mention is that a mix of carbs is necessary when consuming a meal. Simple carbs are used to quickly and complex don’t kick in fast enough. A good mix is the way to go.

[bignatt]

and 1 more article
Ok, lets have a look at insulin .
Its highly anabolic and non-androgenic , and in case some of you are in the dark (I'd like to think we're all clear on anabolic versus androgenic, but ya never know) I'll briefly touch on the subject before diving in... if youre ok on anabolic/androgenic concepts, skip to the INSULIN part...

ANDROGENIC VERSUS ANABOLIC

ANABOLIC is defined as "The process of constructive metabolism" or of building complex substances out of simple substances.
The way your body processes protien, carbohydrates, and fat (all simple substances) and makes muscle (a complex substance) is ANABOLISM.

ANDROGENIC is basically defined as pertaining to male sex characteristics.

ANDROGENIC/ANABOLIC

"Steroids " are actually called "Anabolic Androgenic Steroids." They accomplish "anabolism" through "anabolic" pathways, some being more androgenic (testosterone esters) and some less (winstrol , anavar , primobolan , ect...).
Most often, with reduced androgenic properties comes reduced anabolic properties, but it isnt always cut and dry. If anyone is interested I'll go into it another time, but lets head toward the insulin topic.


INSULIN: NonAndrogenic but Anabolic

Insulin is NOT a sex hormone. It is not related in any way to testosterone, or to estrogen for that matter. It is a product of the pancreas as opposed to testosterone which is a product of the HPTA, pituitary, gonadal, leydig, mishmash of interconnected glands...


WHY IS INSULIN ANABOLIC

So why is insulin anabolic then? Insulin is a partitioning agent. A "shuttle" if you will.
Picture insulin as a bus. Nutrients board the bus, and insulin pulls away and drops off the nutrients at the proper bus stop. That is basically what it does, and for all intents and purposes that is everything you need to know to understand how it works.
So by insulin shuttling these nutrient where they need to go, it enables anabolism and is therefor anabolic!


WHY NOT JUST TAKE CARBS TO RAISE INSULIN

Well, the amount of carbs you would need to take in to increase natural insulin levels to the degree a 10 i.u. shot would would be far more dangerous than using insuiln (and using insulin is NOT that hard OR dangerous).
Carbs at that level would eventually lead to diabetes and fat gains.
If insulin is a bus taking nutrients where they need to go, then exogenous insulin is a bullet train! It can hold far more nutrients than a normal naturally produced burst of insulin can, and it works quicker. Exogenous insulin is the most efficient way to accomplish glycogen overcompensation, period.


WHAT KIND DO I TAKE

Im a major supporter of fast acting insulin. The faster the better!
Currently he fastest acting insulin available is Humalog. It is active in 15 minutes, peaks in 1 hour and clears the system around 2 hours.
Next would be Humalin-R. It is active in about 30 minutes, peaks at the 2 hour mark, and clears the system at the 4 hour mark.
"Biophasics" are mixtures of fast and slow acting insulins, but are not the best choice in my opinion, due to an active dose being in you throughout the day. The reason you dont want that will be covered in the "HOW DO I USE IT" section.
There are also Humalin-L and Humalin-S, but they are long acting, and are no more use to me than the Biophasics. There are also porccine and bovine derived insulin, but I am against injecting animal derived substances.

WHEN (AND HOW MUCH) TO USE

Im going to assume we want to avoid any fat gains at all. Even bulking I dont like to gain any unneccesary fat, so Im going to disuss it from that stand point.
The ultra conservative time to use insulin is post-workout. Most people who are concerned about fat dont go over 10 i.u. as a total dose.
Some people us it on waking, before breakfast, since your body is in a basically carb depleted state. Its the kind of thng you have to try for yourslef, and if it works for you, do it. If you thnk youre gaining fat, stop. BUT! Dont start it at both times at once. Make sure you get your post workout dosage worked out and that you know it is not causing you any fat gains before you try pre-breakfast shots. That way you can take out all the guess work as to where any fat gains may come from.


DISPELLING A FEW MYTHS

There is a commoly held perception that you MUSt take in 10grams of carbs per I.U. of insulin, some radicals say 5 grams... well, theyre both wrong.
I got curious about this when I discovered that my insulin dependant diabetic friend didnt even keep track of what she ate post injection. She would feel hypoglycemic after a shot and take a Glucose Tablet.
A glucose tablet is only 5 grams of glucose (carbs)! So I started to think, "Hmmm, mabye everyone is off point on this?"
After conducting a few experiments on myself, I found that you can go considerably lower in carbs than people previously believed.
Now it doesnt make sense to go low in carbs, because that defies the purpose of using the insulin in the first place, but it does free us from having to use so much that there might be some "spill over" in carbs that cant be utilized. So it really makes us able to have more freedom in carbs choices and amounts.
The "risk" in insulin use is not as risky as people believe. Any person with an ounce of sense can see the warning signs of a problem coming, and remedy the situation.

HOW DO I DO IT

If you look at the drug store, you can get these little pen cases that hold a loaded insulin syringe. They are great for our need, you load up the syringe, and put it in the case, and throw it in your bag/purse/whatever. After the workout, head to a bathroom stall and inject it under the skin! Pull up a little skin from the abdomen or upper thigh (anywhere will do, but these are easiest) and inject. Do not shoot into a muscle. This rushes the dose and makes it harder to predict when it will spike.
So now you have 15 minutes to get some carbs (actually you have longer, since the initial hit of the dose is mild and easy to cope with, the spike is a little more harsh, but still nothing unbearable. If you use the carbs, you probobly wont notice the initial dose OR the spike.)
(this is based on Humalog at 10 i.u.)
I use a powder with a 20% simple/80% complex ratio (actually its 17% mono, 5% di, 7% tri, 5%tetra, and 66% penta-saccharides). I use about 60grams of carbs to the 10 i.u. of insulin.
This gives me a nice solid stream of carbs to overcompensate my depleted muscles, but not so many that I risk fat accumulation from the excess.
Now you are good to go till around 1 hour after the initial injection. At this 1 hour mark, the majority of the dose hits your system. Now is the time to eat a good balanced (AND FAT FREE!) meal. The fat-free emphasis will be explained in the POTENTIAL PROBLEMS section. This balance meal of carbs and protien and little to know fat can be anything from a protien drink and a crab drink, to a low fat MRP, to some lean chicken and rice... your choice.
After this meal, you dont need to pay anymore consideration to the insulin, it will gradually decrease and will be out of your system at the 2 hour mark.
Till you get accustmed to the use of insulin, start low and slow. Start at 2 i.u. then 5 i.u. then 7 i.u. then 10 i.u. That way you get a better understanding of any hypoglycemia you may encounter. Ive went as high as 35 i.u., just to try it, but at a certain point a higher dosage doesnt yield any better results (except fat!)

POTENTIAL PROBLEMS

Insulin is relativly safe. If you dont take in any carbs after using it, your body will give you PLENNTY of warning! Youll feel dizzy, tired, achey... hypoglycemic. What is happening is your body has no glycogen to use as fuel. Your muscles re depleted from working out, and often times youve tapped your liver for any remaining glycogen. The insulin does, searching for glycogen to use, takes the rest from your liver, and in the absence of carbs coming in to make more, it heads for the brain.
Your brain uses glucose as its primary fuel source (a little fat, too.) Thats why you get dizzy and light headed, the same with during a ketogenic diet... low glucose equals light headedness.
So if you forget about the carbs, youll get a warning from yuor body, and you can get your ass in gear and get some carbs in you.
If you get to the point where youre nauseated, just drink some sugary beverage and get some carbs in you quickly. Youre still a long long way from any major danger, but dont mess around.
"Fat Free" I said earlier about the 1 hour mark meal. During the 2 hours of the dosage duration, you should avoid fat like it is the plauge! Insulins partitioning properties are as effective at sending fat to the fat stores as it is carbs and protien to muscles!
So till the dose is clear of your system, NO FAT! (Thats another reason why I advocate the fastest acting insulin you can get.)

[Mr. Sparkle]

Sweet!
I personally feel that using insulin 3x ED is not the best of ideas... I dont see the benifit of it. Seems like there are two times when your body needs nutriants to be shuttled via insulin would be PWO and while you sleep. And it is abolutly not feasible to use insulin while you sleep! So IMO PWO is more than sufficiant.

[bignatt]

I agree these are a tad out dated but just for an overview for people that have no idea whats going on

[Gear]

Good read, even though I must admit that I only feel the need to take Insulin once p day PWO.

-Gear

[Gear]

Your right on RedBaron. I think too many people these days get confused about what Insulin really does, and forget that it is mostly beneficial PWO. I really don't see why people would use Insulin 3 x p/day (unless they are training 3 x p/day which is highly unlikely). It is only going to increase the risk of storing fat as mentioned above. PWO injections are the way to go, and doses in the AM if not on AAS can be beneficial also, but even then, I wouldn't take too many units.

-Gear

[03636]

I have been thinking of using slin with my next cycle, and pwo only. This is a great thread. What do you guys think about carbo drinks after the slin shot? Or would a weight gainer drink with alot of carbs be a better option like a xxl? Another thing I was wondering is it four weeks on four weeks off no matter if you are shooting every day, or after workouts three to four days a week?

[bmf2]

Your right on RedBaron. I think too many people these days get confused about what Insulin really does, and forget that it is mostly beneficial PWO. I really don't see why people would use Insulin 3 x p/day (unless they are training 3 x p/day which is highly unlikely). It is only going to increase the risk of storing fat as mentioned above. PWO injections are the way to go, and doses in the AM if not on AAS can be beneficial also, but even then, I wouldn't take too many units.

-Gear

good read...however...



I do agree with what you have stated gear/RedBaron on the use PWO... and/or low dosing am when not cycling...

[Mr. Sparkle]

I have been thinking of using slin with my next cycle, and pwo only. This is a great thread. What do you guys think about carbo drinks after the slin shot? Or would a weight gainer drink with alot of carbs be a better option like a xxl? Another thing I was wondering is it four weeks on four weeks off no matter if you are shooting every day, or after workouts three to four days a week?

I think they have way too much carbs fat... plus very expensive...

Just use some dextrose in water... and then some Isopure protein. One of the new fruit flavors take it with water.... I love apple melon, that crap is so good!

No the 4 week off rule still applies... better be safe than sorry, and even more so with slin!

[Gear]

I have been thinking of using slin with my next cycle, and pwo only. This is a great thread. What do you guys think about carbo drinks after the slin shot? Or would a weight gainer drink with alot of carbs be a better option like a xxl? Another thing I was wondering is it four weeks on four weeks off no matter if you are shooting every day, or after workouts three to four days a week?

Best PWO nutrition when using Insulin is quick acting proteins (whey protein isolate), and fast acting carbs with minimum or not fats at all. So your best option for a carboydrate source would be dextrose or maltodextrin.

-Gear

[03636]

Good advice...I do keep a couple of different kinds of protien handy. I'll have to look at the labels to see how many fat grams they contain. Alot of people have recomended isopure too, I've had the pre-made bottles they are pretty good.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Isopure is so good! Id just get the powder... good luck

[Mr. Sparkle]

[Whitey]

Great thread, Mr. Sparkle - bumping this one up...

[BrownBomber]

Old post but Im bring it back fellas.............

1) RB writes...."injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose"...........How many IU's of Slin are we talking about here? Why wait 5 min if we're injecting IM? I thought we have no clue when it could spike if injected this way so why not take the shake in right away?

2) As read in every Insulin post the whole point of Slin is to shuttle nutrients to the muscle ASAP..... So why is it that we take in Carbs seperate from Protein? Wouldnt it make sense to take both in at the same time? Just want to make sure fellas!!!

Thanks a lot!
BB

[Gear]

Your dextrose intake depends on how many IU you take. The rule that most people follow is 10g of carbs for every 1IU of Insulin . So, if you are taking 5IU, you would take 50g of dex, if you are taking 7IU you would take 70g of dex. Hope that makes sense.

Some people take less than 10g of carbs p/1IU, but this can be dangerous and should only be done if your are an advanced Insulin user. Otherwise, stick with 10g p/IU.

You can have your dextrose/creatine/glutamine immidietly post injection or you can wait about 5 minutes. IM timings (on-set and active period times) are about half of Sub-Q times.

You can take carbs and protein together post injection, but if you were to do that, you would have to take dex/creatine/protein post injection without the glutamine. Protein shake has glutamine in it already, so if you were to combine glutamine that's in the protein shake with the glutamine you take on its own, it can lead to absorption issues. So dex/protein/creatine/glutamine is a NO NO. That is why we take glutaime/dex/creat and let our body digest it, then 15 minutes later have protein shake (which also has glutamine in it) 15 minutes later and let our body digest that.

Hope that helped.

-Gear

[Mr. Sparkle]

FWIW I take my dex/whey at the same time.... dex plus water is nasty as hell.... makes my yack just thinking about it.

[BrownBomber]

Fellas,

I dont take glutamine. Ive done a bit of research on it and came to my own conclusion that its not worth it, again this is only my opinion.

So if this is the case taking my dex/crea/whey at once wouldnt have any abosorbtion issues? Would taking the dex/crea seperate from just they whey provide any benefits then taking them together..........hope you understand!

thanks
bb

[Gear]

If you don't want to take glutamine then that's fine, stick with what suits you best. But don't forget that your protein shake has glutamine in it anyway.

Anyhow, you can take your creatine/dex/whey all at once PWO or, you can take your creatine/dex PWO followed by a protein shake minutes later. Either way will be fine.

Good luck.

-Gear

[Whitey]

I like glutamine, but it tastes like ass (from what I've heard...ahem)...

[Gear]

I like glutamine, but it tastes like ass (from what I've heard...ahem)...

On its own it does, but when mixed with other supplments such such as creatine/dextrose etc, you can't even feel it.

-Gear

[BrownBomber]

Few more questions fellas,

1) If I start w/ 4iu's does this mean I should only consume 28-40 grams of carbs PW? Seems a bit low or is there a minimum amt. of carbs I should take in, until I reach the dosage where I have to increase the carbs I take in?

2) Does anyone here take glucophage (spelling?) or metformin w/ their Slin?

3) I take metformin w/o Slin w/ all of my carb meals. If I take Metformin in the morning and workout in mid-afternoon, then take my Slin shot, will the metformin I took in the morning have any effect on the Slin? How about PPWO?

4) Does metformin help reduce fat gain while taking Slin?

Thanks again and again guys!!
BB

[Mr. Sparkle]

1- yes its that low because your slin dosage is low... But its right on target.

now that other stuff, Im not sure. I dont know enough about it to totally say....

[Gear]

10g of carbs for every 1IU of Insulin . EG: 4IU - 40g carbs.

Metformin is the stuff that diabetics take I believe, it controls the elevation of BG. Don't worry about that stuff. It wont really be beneficial for what you are trying to achive.

-Gear