Slin PWO year round

[Big Bapper]

Why would it not be ok to use 10iu of fast acting slin PWO year round ??

Everyone on this board seems to say 4 weeeks on, 4 off or 6 weeks on, 4 weeks off ect.

My question is what would be the down sides to taking just 10iu slin PWO, 4 days a week year round ??

[simster1]

bump

[JohnnyB]

Your would cause problems with your natural insulin, I don't know the full mechanics of it, maybe Gear or RB does

JohnnyB

[sin]

if you saturate your insulin receptors over time they down regulate. this makes you insulin resistant (diabetic). the reason for cycling is to keep this from happening.

[simster1]

But if you did only 4 days a week wouldnt your natural insuline recover the other 3 days

[Big Bapper]

Thats what I was thinking afterall its only 10iu, I would understand becoming insilun resisant shooting slin ED or maby 2-3 times a day witch I have heard of BB doing when bulking. Bump for more info.

[simster1]

yeah bump

[sin]

no studies have ever been done. the 4 on 4 off is simply a logical approach to make sure nothing bad happens.

[Big Bapper]

Just to let you know the reason started this tread is because I have been using 10iu act rapid slin PWO. With 100g dextrose, 60g whey, 20g creatine and 20g gluatmine, 1 hour later I have 200g cooked chicken and 230g cooked rice. I have been doing this aprox 2 years with the odd week off her and there and have never run into problems. I dont think at such a low dose 10iu PWO 4 days a week would cause much harm.

Is there anyone who also dose this ??

Can anyone tell me why I should not do this ??

Thinking of starting to cycle it if is going to cause me any harm and thanks for your help bros.

If Gear or RB are about there input would be as usual invaluable.

[simster1]

yea bump

[TDS]

mayb ur already diabetic and you just dont kno it... ur regular inso shots mite be keeping you at bay. you should try and stop it for 4 weeks or so and get bak to us...

[Gear]

Everyone is different, so you may be able to run Insulin longer than me without becoming depedant. But then again, everyone has a dead end. I choose not to take Insulin for any longer than 5 weeks in a row simply because I don't want to find my "dead end". Once I do, then my chances of becoming Insulin dependant become extremly high. This is the last thing I want. Surely I can probably run Insulin for a lot longer than I usually do, but like I said, I like to play the game safe because I know it is a fact that long term Insulin use can lead to one to become dependant. How far you push yourself is up to you I suppose.

Another reason why I don't choose to run Insulin with no breaks is because I believe no matter what we do, it's beneficial for our body to get a rest (a change from what we are currently doing). Then once you start doing it again after the break, your body will go through a shock which leads to a reaction. And if you do everything right, your results from a shock will always be greater than results from something your body is used to.

Many people have pushed their limits with Insulin and unfortunately found their dead end. They are the ones that also thought "well I have been using Insulin all year round and it has not effected me so why not run forever". For your own good, please stick to the general rule we all use.

-Gear

[TDS]

well said

[Big Bapper]

Well I guess I am a walking experment, I know long term insilun use can cause dependance when used ED for long periods of time, witch I have done also, but would never use this pratice again.

I am still not convinced that 10iu PWO would cause dependance in the long run because your not shooting it ED just PWO 4 days a week, to help shuttle all those PWO nutriets into the muscle PWO.

I would never run slin PWO forever, like I said I take weeks off here and there. Insulin Is a very Anabolic drug and I am trying to find the best way to use it ??

The way I am thinking at the momont is 5-6 weeks on slin and 2 off.

Gear can you explaine what the "dead end" is ??

[Big Bapper]

mayb ur already diabetic and you just dont kno it... ur regular inso shots mite be keeping you at bay. you should try and stop it for 4 weeks or so and get bak to us...

I am not diabetic, I have a Blood Glocose reading machine I got from a diabetic friend of mine wich I use regulary to moinotor my blood glocose levle.

I also uesd to run Act rapid ED X 10iu 3 times a day for about 2 years then came off because of a bad back injury and was fine.

Anyway If I was diabetic I would need Insilun ED and allot more than 10iu 4 times a week my good friend.

[Gear]

Well I guess I am a walking experment, I know long term insilun use can cause dependance when used ED for long periods of time, witch I have done also, but would never use this pratice again.

I am still not convinced that 10iu PWO would cause dependance in the long run because your not shooting it ED just PWO 4 days a week, to help shuttle all those PWO nutriets into the muscle PWO.

I would never run slin PWO forever, like I said I take weeks off here and there. Insulin Is a very Anabolic drug and I am trying to find the best way to use it ??

The way I am thinking at the momont is 5-6 weeks on slin and 2 off.

Gear can you explaine what the "dead end" is ??

When I say "dead end", it means "end of something". What I was trying to say is, you may be able to run Insulin for a long period of time, but sooner or later, you will come to a point (dead end) where your body will become dependant on the drug you are using. When you will get to that point is something you don't know. So as mentioned, you are a walking experiment. That is a perfect expression for this kind of situation.

Hope that cleared it up for you.

-Gear

[Big Bapper]

Thanks Gear for the info, Still dont think 10iu 4 times a week would cause any harm. But I will Play it safe and cycle it from now on. Big Thanks everyone for your help, it has helped clear a few things up.

[joevette]

I'm using slin 3 times a week pwo only for 12 weeks at 10ius. I consider this a safe way to run it.

I know Mallet is running 10ius 2x per day (both pwo) for 8 weeks. He's also running GH, though, so 2x per day dosing makes sence, I just don't know about going that long without a break.

[Big Bapper]

I'm using slin 3 times a week pwo only for 12 weeks at 10ius. I consider this a safe way to run it.

I know Mallet is running 10ius 2x per day (both pwo) for 8 weeks. He's also running GH, though, so 2x per day dosing makes sence, I just don't know about going that long without a break.

How many weeks off do you have after 12 weeks ??

I am also running 4iu GH ED and nearly 3G AS EW as part of a bulker.

[Mach1]

Maybe I missed this, just curious, do you ever check fasting glucose levels in the morning when you wake up?

[joevette]

How many weeks off do you have after 12 weeks ??

I am also running 4iu GH ED and nearly 3G AS EW as part of a bulker.

None, in fact I may be using it 2x per day along with IGF-1 LR3 for PCT. I will continue to use it atleast pwo (3x per week), until my 4 week PCT IGF-1 LR3 run is over then I'll take 4 weeks off from both.

[Gear]

It's hard to say how many times p/week is safe to use Insulin long term.

-Gear

[spound]

If you are planning on running it only 4 times a week, that is almost time on=time off, at the end of each week, just a one day difference. I dont see any harm in it, I would maybe take a week off here and there, but other that that, you are basically using the same principle as the genereal rule of thumd 4 wks on=4 weeks off, which is the same as time on=time off, which is basically what you would be doing with 4 days use/week.

[Big Bapper]

If you are planning on running it only 4 times a week, that is almost time on=time off, at the end of each week, just a one day difference. I dont see any harm in it, I would maybe take a week off here and there, but other that that, you are basically using the same principle as the genereal rule of thumd 4 wks on=4 weeks off, which is the same as time on=time off, which is basically what you would be doing with 4 days use/week.

Thats what I was thinking when I started this tread, Now I am thinking 4 weeks on and 1 week off, just to be safe. Thanks for all your help bros, but I think this needs to be discust futher.

Has anyone else got any views on this ??

[Big Bapper]

None, in fact I may be using it 2x per day along with IGF-1 LR3 for PCT. I will continue to use it atleast pwo (3x per week), until my 4 week PCT IGF-1 LR3 run is over then I'll take 4 weeks off from both.

So you run it for your whole cycle and PCT, then 4 months off ??

[Big Bapper]

Maybe I missed this, just curious, do you ever check fasting glucose levels in the morning when you wake up?

Never checked BG levles first thing in the morning, but after sleep with no food. I would expect them to be low.

I can check them in the morning and let you know if you think it will help !!

One think I do no is that I am not Diabetic if thats what your getting at, because I am on AS pretty much year round and get blood work and all other checks eveery 3 months and thats one thing they check for.

[joevette]

So you run it for your whole cycle and PCT, then 4 months off ??

No, read the post again. 4 WEEKS off. Also, those 12 weeks are far from my whole cycle.

[Big Bapper]

Sorry was in a rush when reading.

[Gear]

The way you become dependant is when your body starts to rely on the excess Insulin, and not the natural produced Insulin. So, my theory is to run Insulin every 3rd day. This way you are giving your body enough time to produce and rely on the naturaly produced Insulin before reciving the excess Insulin. That is probably the best way to run Insulin long term. ED or EOD long term Insulin doses can lead to your body to become dependant simply because you are not allowing your body to rely on the natural produced Insulin for long enough.

-Gear

[spound]

The way you become dependant is when your body starts to rely on the excess Insulin, and not the natural produced Insulin. So, my theory is to run Insulin every 3rd day. This way you are giving your body enough time to produce and rely on the naturaly produced Insulin before reciving the excess Insulin. That is probably the best way to run Insulin long term. ED or EOD long term Insulin doses can lead to your body to become dependant simply because you are not allowing your body to rely on the natural produced Insulin for long enough.

-Gear

How do you know that? Many people use 4 on, 4 off straight through, and their natural insulin secretion does not get shut down still. So who is to say that going EOD (taking a day off EOD) is going to shut down your natty insulin secretion (which is what you said toward the end of your last post)? I am just wondering if you have any scientific evidence or proof to back up your statement about running slin every 3rd day? How do you know that going every 3rd day is enough time to allow your body to keep from becoming dependent, when you have never experienced insulin dependancy? I dont go for all this theory stuff if it is not backed up. Hell your theory is just about as good as mine, with the exception of personal experience, which I believe we both have, so that eliminates that factor. It seems to me that all your statements are just guesses, which i dont know how you could have come up with them, simply bc of the fact that you have never become insulin dependent, therefore, you would not know what made you become dependent, unless, of course, you have some evidence to back it up. I am not flaming you here, I just dont understand your reasoning behind all this and I am curious to know. Thanks

[wilthepill123]

I think the point here is that insulin dependency isnt something to screw around with. What works has already been defined and its not a good idea to tool around and see what else works.

[spound]

I think the point here is that insulin dependency isnt something to screw around with. What works has already been defined and its not a good idea to tool around and see what else works.

Yes, you are 100% correct, and I respect what everyone has had to say on the subject, I guess I am just looking to get a little bit closer to the answer, but I agree with most of the things said here, and even if gear statement isn't exactly right (which probably no ones theory is correct) it would still be a very safe and smart one to follow.

[sin]

The way you become dependant is when your body starts to rely on the excess Insulin, and not the natural produced Insulin. So, my theory is to run Insulin every 3rd day. This way you are giving your body enough time to produce and rely on the naturaly produced Insulin before reciving the excess Insulin. That is probably the best way to run Insulin long term. ED or EOD long term Insulin doses can lead to your body to become dependant simply because you are not allowing your body to rely on the natural produced Insulin for long enough.

-Gear

let me make sure first that people know that type 1 diabetes is a autoimmune disease in which the body attacks cells in the pancreas making it impossible for the body to produce insulin. type 2 diabetes is common among fat people, and even though they have normal insulin, there body does not respond to it. diabetes from taking insulin has nothing to do with its effect on producing insulin in the body. the problem is that the in cell receptors for the insulin begin to downregulate due to the constant flood of blood glucose. your body simply responds to its environment. if bg is high, the pancreas releases insulin, if not, it stays low. the release of insulin by your body is unaffected either way, its the bodies response to insulin that becomes a problem.

[simster1]

let me make sure first that people know that type 1 diabetes is a autoimmune disease in which the body attacks cells in the pancreas making it impossible for the body to produce insulin. type 2 diabetes is common among fat people, and even though they have normal insulin, there body does not respond to it. diabetes from taking insulin has nothing to do with its effect on producing insulin in the body. the problem is that the in cell receptors for the insulin begin to downregulate due to the constant flood of blood glucose. your body simply responds to its environment. if bg is high, the pancreas releases insulin, if not, it stays low. the release of insulin by your body is unaffected either way, its the bodies response to insulin that becomes a problem.

Then are you saying that you can only become dependent on insuline if you shoot mulitple shots per day. In effect flooding your body with insulin and not requiring the body to produce it own. This over a long period of time would shut down the pancrease?

[spound]

let me make sure first that people know that type 1 diabetes is a autoimmune disease in which the body attacks cells in the pancreas making it impossible for the body to produce insulin. type 2 diabetes is common among fat people, and even though they have normal insulin, there body does not respond to it. diabetes from taking insulin has nothing to do with its effect on producing insulin in the body. the problem is that the in cell receptors for the insulin begin to downregulate due to the constant flood of blood glucose. your body simply responds to its environment. if bg is high, the pancreas releases insulin, if not, it stays low. the release of insulin by your body is unaffected either way, its the bodies response to insulin that becomes a problem.

Thats some good info. brotha, I would be interested to know where you got it from. Thanks for that post

[sin]

Then are you saying that you can only become dependent on insuline if you shoot mulitple shots per day. In effect flooding your body with insulin and not requiring the body to produce it own. This over a long period of time would shut down the pancrease?

nobody knows how often you would have to shoot to effect the receptors. everyone is different and there is no magic answer. the only good way is the logical and safe way. it would not shut down the release from the pancreas, because there is no feedback loop.

[sin]

Thats some good info. brotha, I would be interested to know where you got it from. Thanks for that post

hey, glad i could be of some help. this info is strictly from the brain, ive been working on an advanced degree in pharmacology for a few years now and am simply fascinated with how all of these things fit into bodybuilding.

[spound]

hey, glad i could be of some help. this info is strictly from the brain, ive been working on an advanced degree in pharmacology for a few years now and am simply fascinated with how all of these things fit into bodybuilding.

Good deal, thanks again, and good luck on that degree

[KGBnine]

How do you know that? Many people use 4 on, 4 off straight through, and their natural insulin secretion does not get shut down still. So who is to say that going EOD (taking a day off EOD) is going to shut down your natty insulin secretion (which is what you said toward the end of your last post)? I am just wondering if you have any scientific evidence or proof to back up your statement about running slin every 3rd day? How do you know that going every 3rd day is enough time to allow your body to keep from becoming dependent, when you have never experienced insulin dependancy? I dont go for all this theory stuff if it is not backed up. Hell your theory is just about as good as mine, with the exception of personal experience, which I believe we both have, so that eliminates that factor. It seems to me that all your statements are just guesses, which i dont know how you could have come up with them, simply bc of the fact that you have never become insulin dependent, therefore, you would not know what made you become dependent, unless, of course, you have some evidence to back it up. I am not flaming you here, I just dont understand your reasoning behind all this and I am curious to know. Thanks

Well honestly I think that cycling (4on4off) theory is safer...would you want people to take your advice, use slin year round, and risk developing NIDDM? I hope not.

[KGBnine]

nobody knows how often you would have to shoot to effect the receptors. everyone is different and there is no magic answer. the only good way is the logical and safe way. it would not shut down the release from the pancreas, because there is no feedback loop.

That's what I think also. Everyone is differen't. Just because X affects me a certain way, does not mean everyone else will be affected also. But I would think people would want to be safe with this. I don't know of anyone (non-diabetic) that takes insulin year round. That's not to say nobody does, but I'd rather not take the chance.