IGF 2x more effective with Humulin N?

[Justtryin2live]

I need the minds of the forum to comment on this.

Insulin's purpose with IGF is to bind to the receptor sites where IGF attaches to. Insulin and bodybuilding does have other effects but not the same purpose as with IGF which is to increase its half life.

Since insulin is in the way of the receptor sites after injection and since it cannot bond to all receptor sites then some IGF goes in effect and some remains free floating for later use thus increasing its half-life and effect.

Everyone here who uses insulin, uses it differently when not with IGF, i know that.

My question is why not take a low dose Humulin-N sub-Q, instead of R and further improve the efficacy of IGF, meaning same results on lower dose thus resulting in more IGF and lower costs. Also since IGF will be binding to the sites, not much insulin will be needed in the first place. Long R-3 IGF-1 and humulin N have approximately the same half life and would allow 25 mcg IGF twice a day to be effective.

OPINIONS? COMMENTS?

[PT]

what is humulin-n? the only slin you should use is humalog, novolin or humulin-r

[Justtryin2live]

Insulin comes in a few forms: basically, R, N, and U. R is short acting with peak onsent in 2-4 hours, N is longer acting with peak onset of 6-12 hours and and U is ultra long acting with peak around 24 hours.

I know everyone uses R, but it is for a different function when recommended with IGF. With IGF its purpose is to increase its half-life and let IGF do its thing for an extended period of time.

Insulin R use with GH or AAS is to assist in improving protein uptake by cells thus resulting in improved function and size. Read my original post as to why Humulin N is theoretically better with IGF.

Thanks for a post but Im asking people to think outside the box. Not a robot response "use R". The question is why wont my theory work? maybe someone knows? tried? thought about it?

[sin]

i think your confused. igf CAN bind the insulin receptor (its termed non-inducible insulin activity) but igf also has its own set of receptors and its functions are different. igf functions in cell growth and division, while insulin functions in metabolism. As for using n instead of r again, i think your confused. people take r directly after a workout because it shuttles nutrients into muscle cells. if you take n and it takes a few hours to kick in, youve missed your window for growth. anyway, welcome to the board, theres a ton of learning going on here.

[Justtryin2live]

So then, How does insulin increase the Half-life of IGF? By the previous post since IGF has its own set of receptors and then by maintaining any other receptors that may take IGF blocked, there would be more bioavailability of IGF. I figure the benefits of IGF are worth sacrificing the benefits of insulin as its function PWO.

[sin]

lets start at the beginning. why do you think insulin increases the half life of igf?

[Justtryin2live]

According to the research related to IGF. Since it is "Insulin like growth factor" it does attach to insulin receptor sites. in addition the reason IGF increases insulin sensitivity, as posted in another recent post, is by the same means by taking up insulin receptor sites thus requiring less insulin in circulation. The article should read "insulin increases IGF sensitivity". Im just trying to really learn to maximize my potential.

[sin]

igf got its name because the molecule is similar in shape and size to insulin. this was discovered when they saw that diabetics still had some insulin-like effects after eating. igf-1 and igf-2 are also termed somatomedins which means that they mediate the effects of growth hormone. igf does indeed attach to the insulin receptor site, but at very low affinity and it does slightly increase insulin sensitivity because of this. however, it doesnt make sense to me that changing the active time of the insulin would have any benifit based on these effects. igf in the body will mainly activate igf receptors and insulin will only effect insulin receptors. the effects of igf take hours, while the effects of insulin are immediate.

[Justtryin2live]

Thats why im saying to take Humulin N. so the insulin takes up its own receptor sites and IGF is free to do their thing. This is basing in the thought process that insulin is being used for no additional purpose than to take up a receptor site and not for PWO assistance.

[sin]

so, your saying that if the insulin receptors are blocked igf has not choice but to bind to igf receptors?

[Justtryin2live]

Yes, leaving more IGF in the blood to be used as the sites free up. Thus further increasing its half-life.

[sin]

i dont think so. igf binds the insulin receptor at low affinity meaning that it is much more likely to bind its own receptor. i think the difference would be minimal.

[Justtryin2live]

So why do they recommend taking IGF with insulin to improve its half life? I have both but id rather stay away from the insulin if it has no help with IGF. Since it has a low affinity, it seems that insulin use would be just for its independent benefits. I know synergistically they have a better outcome.

[sin]

ive never heard this recommendation based on increasing half life. where did you get this info? insulin and igf have synergy because of the complimentary pathways. igf activates growth pathways and insulin provides the necessary nutrients.

[Justtryin2live]

Its in the package insert of IGtropin.

[sin]

what does it say?

[Justtryin2live]

I scanned it. Check it out.

[sin]

interesting. it says take igf1 at night and an insulin shot in the morning to increase the half life. is there anything more? perhaps references that back up this info. the web site referenced at the bottom doesnt exist, and when i do a search on pubmed i cant find any evidence that insulin has this effect on igf1.

[Justtryin2live]

Thats all i got. my guy. Professional experienced competiton people. Say thats what they do. They advised me to do the same, but cant tell me why. "thats how it works" I have a medical background and am just trying to figure out the science behind it. and maybe make it better.

[sin]

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